Rear brakes (pads and copper washer)

petek · #1 (**permalink**) 03-27-2005, 03:31 PM

Hey Don,

Need some help.

I've found part of my car's braking problems - the rear brake on the passenger's side leaks under pressure. The leak is from the fitting between the caliper and the brass block; apparently the copper gasket/washer isn't sealing properly.

Here is a picture of the copper gasket/washer (please ignore the fibers from the paper towel):

Here is a picture of the brass fitting on the caliper:

Where the heck do I get four of these copper gasket/washers?

Next question: what sort of brakes are these? They came installed on the 9" rear that Classic provided. I'd like to get some new pads for the calipers just in case the pads have been damped by brake fluid. Here is a picture:

As always, thanks for the help Don!!!

petek

Jack21 · #2 (**permalink**) 03-27-2005, 06:45 PM

Hi Petek,

Those copper washers are pretty standard on brake banjo bolt fittings. Typically they come with a rebuilt caliper, but any auto supply store should either have them, or be able to get them for you.

Your rear calipers look identicle to mine. Mine came as part of M-2300-C Mustang rear disk brake conversion kit from Ford. The brakes are from '87 - '89 T-bird turbo coupe.

Problem is, they come with standard organic pads, not semi metallics. If your local parts house can't get you semi metallics, try Stainless Steel Brakes Corp (ssbc.com).

Look at SSBC's Force 10 fronts for MII. They're 4 piston calipers and Grenada 11" rotors. (Actually, these calipers are original Kelsy-Hayes design from '66/'67 Mustang GT's).

With SSBC street semi metallic pads front & rear, braking is about as good as it gets for 15" wheel cars.

ps: Take a piece of 5/8" heater hose, split it, and fasten it to your brake line where it comes close to your rear coilover with tiewraps. Keeps your brake hose from abraiding against spring.

petek · #3 (**permalink**) 03-27-2005, 06:59 PM

Great info, thanks Jack!!!

I had routed the brake lines over the calipers (that's when the tiny leak started). With the hoses over the calipers they rubbed on the inside of the wheel. Not much, but enough that I think I'd be better off re-routing them again to the inside / coil over area.

I bought upgraded rotors and calipers from Clois (who bought them from speedway if I remember correctly). I'll be installing them just as soon as I confirm that I've got to grind off a wee bit of the lower suspension arm so that it doesn't hit the rotor.

The old Mustang II calipers are going onto another car (Montage) with a new set of rotors. The Montage has 14" front wheels so the Mustang II brakes are as good as I'm going to do for now.

Got any ideas for better pads for the Mustang II brake calipers?

thanks again,
petek

CowtownCobra · #4 (**permalink**) 03-27-2005, 07:36 PM

Pete, I would also suggest dumping the rubber brake lines and upgrade to braided stainless.

Jack21 · #5 (**permalink**) 03-27-2005, 07:46 PM

Pads for stock MII 9 1/2" rotor? Any GOOD name brand replacement semi metallic pad from local auto supply store is about as good as you're going to get.

Have 4 wheel disks on grocery getters, and that's what I use. Very reluctant to use Pep Boys economy offshore brand.

petek · #6 (**permalink**) 03-27-2005, 09:10 PM

Dave - yup, got 'em on the front.

Jack - Good name brand it will be. Of course I could just order 'em up from J.C. Whitney and see what shows up!

Rick Parker · #7 (**permalink**) 03-27-2005, 10:31 PM

There should also be a washer under the head of the bolt.
Below is a link to my gallery. I use the same model calipers. I had to flip the calipers side for side. This shows originally the LH one but moved to the RH side. I had to reverse them side for side and move to the front of the rotor due to shock mounting constraints. They work great. E-brake is functional. I changed the cable pull mechanism too.There are many fittings that will eliminate your hose problem. I too recomend Teflon/stainless lines. More pics in my gallery.

Rick
http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/d...icture_285.jpg

fxbill · #8 (**permalink**) 03-28-2005, 01:21 AM

Pete...You can re-anneal the copper gasket by torching it until it turns red hot and then quenching it. It'll be soft as butter and seal better than a new one.

petek · #9 (**permalink**) 03-28-2005, 08:31 AM

Rick, yes, there was a washer under the head of the bolt too. I removed them to find replacements. (Thanks for the picture too.)

fxbill - what a great idea! I'll give it a try.

Rick Parker · #10 (**permalink**) 03-28-2005, 08:37 AM

Is it possible that the hose itself is leaking, between the rubber hose and where it is crimped???

Just a thought...............

Rick

petek · #11 (**permalink**) 03-28-2005, 10:53 AM

The seepage was coming from the interface between the block and the caliper. When I flipped the hoses over to clear the coil overs I didn't use new copper crush gaskets (doh!), I didn't see any seepage so I figured everything was OK.

NOT!

Now I'm fixin' 'em proper-like!

Git-er-done!

starwolf56 · #12 (**permalink**) 03-28-2005, 04:27 PM

Interesting idea about the copper washer annealing. However; the washer gets somewhat distorted when used. I would never re-use one. Just not worth the risk of a possible leak. Only a couple of bucks at any good parts store. Just my .02 worth.
Charlie

petek · #13 (**permalink**) 03-28-2005, 09:34 PM

Given the sneaky leak that I had, I think I'm going to use new copper washers!

DonC · #14 (**permalink**) 03-29-2005, 07:55 AM

I agree with Charlie. Just like Nylock nuts, the copper washers should never be reused. Any fastner or gasket (in this case copper washer) that depends on distortion for it's function should only be used once. Any other application of the same element will result in the previous distortion deteriorating the new application by carrying over the form of the previous distortion. The previous distortion will almost never fit the new application correctly.
In the case of the brake line the pressures that the copper washer have to seal against are very high and the seal has to be nearly perfect.
You may or may not get away with re-using something like this but why take things apart any more than absolutely necessary or re-do work you've already done for a couple of cents.
DonC

Rick Parker · #15 (**permalink**) 03-29-2005, 10:13 AM

Earl's also makes these washers in aluminum.

Rick

fxbill · #16 (**permalink**) 03-29-2005, 02:38 PM

I agree completely...new ones should be used if possible, but if not...then the annealing works fine. It makes them softer than they originally were and they will compress more than the first time giving them a good seal. Most are ribbed, but flat ones, if soft, will seal great too. This is actually an old dirt bike trick when head gaskets were solid copper. They could be reused 5 or 6 times without incident. Although the pressure was less than with brakes the compression on a brake seal washer is a lot greater in a smaller area than with a head gasket. I've had to do it several times in years past...never once with a leak afterwards.