Double Venom suspension question

[wtm442]

Double Venom Suspension????

Wasn't the frat house in Animal House on Double Venom Suspension????

[Double Venom]

jdean
Sorry, I was asleep at the wheel-waiting for a response then finally noticed we went to page 2!
Interesting, and I thank you for crawling on your back and getting some nice photo's.
Now, do you think it made a lot of difference in the roll over the stock 4 bar? Times on the track and basically the same weather would have been great. Definately something to think about-invesigate.
Animal House ? I thought it still was !
DV

[jdean]

DV, I really cant say since this is what I put in when the car was first driven, so I dont have any before and after experience.

[dvcobra]

Curt, you said you are running QA1 coilovers 500lb in the front. Do you have a part number? Are they adjustable?. I also noticed that you have run at Willow Springs, I will be there on May 9 & 10 for the COCOA event if your interested in joining us. Do you know what kind of times you were running out there with your setup?
I was out there last week and I still am experiencing a lot of body role and the back end wants to come around when I push it too hard. Do you think changing from the Carrera 350lb coilovers to the 500 lb. will eliminate some of the body roll and keep the back end on track?
The boxed lower control arms and heavier rear springs helped with the body roll, but I still need less roll I think.
I was amazed to hear that the FFR Challenge cars are using 700lb springs in front and 500lb springs in rear! Is that because of the 3-link and different front style suspension?

[Curt C.]

dvcobra

I am running a QA1 adjustable Mustang II set up with 500 lb springs. Part number MS 1500. A 375 lb spring is too soft for a track driven CR in my opinion. Go here. It is a shows all the Mustang II setups available.
http://qa1.thomasnet.com/keyword/spo...d=mustang%20ii
I could run in the high 1:30's with the Cobra at Willow if I really pushed it. What sway bars are you running? What tires? How is the rear of the car set up - coilovers or stock? Dont compare your setup to the FFR specs. Completely different animals. I should be out at the Cocoa event in my Mustang. I can help you tune a little if you are there.

[dvcobra]

Thank You. my specs are outlined earlier in this thread but to answer your questions, I am running Hoosier R6 road race radials, Rear 275 springs with the adjustable spring perches(stock CR) and pro shocks, rear (CR stock) sway bar and no sway bar in front ( as suggested by DV). I also have a 9 inch Currie rear end with the 4 link (8.8) setup, I boxed in my lower control arms. Has anyone come up with a design or photo's for a lighter front sway bar, I don't have my old one for a template?
I am still researching and considering changing to watts 5 link but of course it would have to be custom built which is beyond my abilities. I just came across the Fays2 watts link which looks to be fairly universal and just might work with some frame points welded on.
I will send you a private message with a photo of my car so you can locate me at Willow. We always park with the COCOA of Orange County group behind the stands just before turn 1 (close to braking point)

[Curt C.]

No sway bar in front may be ok for autocross but not for the road course in my humble opinion. I ran the stock front bar for a long time with good success. I now have a custom Nascar adjustable type but it is at a similar rate as the stock one. No front sway bar will casue more pronounced body roll unless you up the spring rates accordingly. The stock rear bar was too much for my setup resulting in the rear end coming out under hard acceleration. I went to a lower rate bar with good success. I have the stock front CR bar and a smaller rear bar if you are interested.

[Double Venom]

dv,
You have quoted me correctly but it is important to know that I and our Honda and Ford engineers both think a front way bar will definately help but IT HAS to be designed for the special Cobra that it is- CR of course!

I never had time to engineer a front one when I sold my shop but I think it is about time.............. IF repeating, IF you want to send me your stock roll bar for a period of who knows 6 months I will engineer one that not only fits, but has the correct torque and I plan on making if fully adjustable from streeet us to differeent tracks! ?

DV

[capteddie]

DV,

I have a CR front and rear sway bar in the garage. I'll bring them over tomorrow.

[Double Venom]

Curt,
I dont want to get into it again But everything you say is true. My point is, Will your cobra pull a 1.73 G' on a 100 ft skid pad? Mine did and won the run n gun by over a lap, AND I was running Cooper Cobra MUD & SNOW Street tires. I didn't do the front or rear sway bars but the actual engineers at the "Transportation Resarch Center in Marysville Ohio" did. It wasn't me but I did what the engineers told me to do with blind obedience on my part. That took the CR from a lousy .78 G to a 1.73 G with the same tires! No front sway bar and the stock rear ones!

The highest test came with the rear on, BUT the front one unhooked. Due to racing season being upon me at the time (I had to race thre Vipers) I never got a hance to build a closer bar!

Capteddie, maybe I should let your car go a little longer and concentrate on that swaybar

Curt, may I ask what rate for the front makes you happy?
DV

[capteddie]

Originally Posted by Double Venom

Capteddie, maybe I should let your car go a little longer and concentrate on that swaybar

LOL very funny!!! but NO

I'll still bring you the sway bars. It'll give you something to do AFTER the car is done

See you tomorrow!!!

[dvcobra]

Thank you for everyone's help and I look forward to hearing any updates in the future regarding the custom sway bar design. Wish I could get on a skid pad for testing, it would help hone the driving skills also!

[Curt C.]

DV, I am not disputing your accomplishments - You are the Man! There are many race cars and some street cars that run big springs and no sway bar. 1.73 on the skid pad! There has to be a whole lot more to it than just removing a sway bar. That is obviosuly a full on race car. An ACR Viper, which I would classify as a borderline race car, can only pull 1.08g per Car and Driver. Enzo Ferrari - 1.01. I suspect dv's car falls in line with the street driven occaisional track car like mine. Apples & Oranges?

Originally Posted by dvcobra

I was out there last week and I still am experiencing a lot of body role and the back end wants to come around when I push it too hard.

Lots of body roll and oversteer is screaming for higher front spring and or sway bar rates PERIOD.
Don't take my work for it. See what the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) Tuning Guide recommends. http://www.wtrscca.org/tech.htm

DV, to anwer your question, I like 500lb springs in the front (with the front sway bar). This coupled with bilstein 250lb coilovers (mounted straight up) in the rear and a .70 rear sway bar seems to keep the car in a neutral to slight understeer condition.

[dvcobra]

DV, Summer has come and gone. Any more thought's on a custom front sway bar?