Owner built on a budget;

[Double Venom]

Ray,
not really following..., the correct tubing is the way to go. The CR's mounting is fine, the hoop actually bolts to the top of one of the main frame rails, the weak link is how they mount the down leg. They use a "sleeve" which bolts to the frame-ok..., but not the best way then they put the down tube through a sleeve and bolt though the sleeve the down tube and into the frame.

Although I have never seen any of these/those types in a major side/rear impact I have seen many of them flipped over and not one has failed yet that I have seen.

Building a CR's Cobra for another guy right now, I like what he has done for the down tube! The down tube is welded at the bottom with a piece of steel with a 7/16s nut welded to the inside (much like the main hoop is done). He has a rectangular box of steel welded at the angle of the down leg to the frame rail. The lower plate of this box is drilled out allowing a 716's bolt to go through, up into the down leg where it is bolted in. Lateral impact can't tear it out, down force certainly wont tear it loose from the frame, good set up.

DV

[onefastmustang]

Originally Posted by Hray

Remade the steering column support tonite, basically welded on two pieces of angle iron and then cut the strap. This allows removal of the column without taking out that very top single bolt that would be nearly impossible to access after the car is built. I owe Terry thanks for that little tip.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3463/...72bd5a9c_b.jpg

When I built mine Pete sold me a bracket that makes it really easy to drop the column and to adjust it. I wish I had a picture of it so I could post it.

[Hray]

DV: last nite I studied the roll bar install in the CRltd manual. My first thought was not near enough strength to the mounting points, and thought the bracket with small bolts into the frame would shear off.

What I am possibly trying to do is make the loop strong enough to eliminate the down leg to the back.


For analogy, imagine making the loop out of the same steel as a reese trailer hitch setup. For discussion purposes let just say I wanted to actually cut and reuse a reese hitch setup. Using square tubing in this case.

I could weld a receiver to the frame at about the sampe place the original loop would be attached, make it say 6 inches tall. Then add some half inch gussets to both the sides and rear. these gussets would be 6by6 inch triangles. then cut a 12 inch piece of solid steel which would be inserted into the receiver and slide up into the top loop. then use half inch bolts to secure the insert into both the receiver and the top loop. with this type of design the insert could be placed totally inside the top loop. then when the loop and frame receiver are butted together the insert would drop down into receiver and then just bolt the two together. If this was built out of at least quarter inch thick side wall it should be strong enough to not collapse. and not require the back down tube.

If this concept would work then all I have to do is find the quarter inch thick tubing about 2 inches in diameter and then get it bent into the loop.

After thinking about this I think I like the double roll bars look better than the single one going all the way across.

If I can get convinced that this engineering will be functional enough then I basicaly have created a quick connect disconnect roll bar so I can remove the roll bar. or maybe make a single one also that would curve forward enough to alllow me to install the hard top when I want to drive in 100 degree weather.

Again the question to answer is can we create a roll bar loop that is strong enough without the down leg. If not then we gotta create a quick disconnect for the down leg as well. but then I would not like the hole in the body when hard top is installed.

Maybe we could bring the frame receiver up almost all the way to the body and then get about 12 inch gussets to the side and rear frame rail all inside the car.

I guess my hang up is that I have driven 29 A;'s and t bucket roadesters in the middle of the day in the summer for long trips here in Calif and honestly it is not that much fun.

If I am not convinced I can get a functional roll bar, then I (yes God forbid) will not install one rather than have a false sense of security by having a cosmetic one.

I think I am taging along with Rip to emerson's next wednesday, I will see what they think.

I do value your insights. Ray

[Double Venom]

Ray,

Do not take offense, but you need to learn a lot about roll bars. I don't care if your hoop is made from solid steel and welded directly to the frame, without lateral support you still have a bar that can fold backwards or God forbid forwards.

OK, the car is on its top, what ever momentum/energy is left over now doing what comes naturally, it is going to slide, OR continue to roll. For the sake of honesty and realistically let say the car is sliding backwards up side down. There's nothing more than a man hole cover sticking up off the pavement by an 1/8 inch or more, with the weight of the car pushing down on the roll bar and probably digging in by now, it will catch that man hole cover.

You know what happens then with no lateral support, yes, it folds on top of the driver bending the driver in half and pinning him like a piece of baloney in a sandwich.

How about the same scenario but now your Cobra is heading for the curb, upside down and backwards.....

CR's DO MEET safety standards - to - a point. The reason they are listed as cosmetic is strictly for liability purposes! K.I.S.S. May I suggest you do not try to make something better that what NASCAR, NHRA, SCCA, FICA, etc. have spent 100's of thousands of dollars on designing and testing.

You can do a search on any racing sanction then go to their roll bar specs.

Building it wrong is a lot worse than not having any!
Talk to Bill, I am sure he can give you some legitimate information.

I'm done....whining about this.
DV
Damn, I sound like a troll, I hate trolls!

[rustyBob]

Ed........safety should always come first........people have been driveing sports cars without rollbars for decades and there are several Cobra owners that don't have rollbars on there cars(including me)and i dont believe my car to be unsafe in any way, i dont race it and i actually find myself being more careful of how i drive my car because it dosent have a rollbar.

[Double Venom]

rustybob,
As I said, "Building it wrong is a lot worse than not having any!"
DV

[Hray]

update: yesterday tried to put the heater assembly together, and spent another couple hours going thru parts and the manual. I think I screwed up the defroster door, but do not think I am going to worry about defrosters for now. may even scrap the heater. I have driven many rods without heaters. I find I can always put on enough clothes to get warm, but I sure do not seem to be able to take enough off to get cool.


Today I decided to set up the dash. Got out the template from the manual. Found that it was not that accurate with my custom dash even though the template was for a custom dash. I came up with my own lay out.

How I layed it out, first I took masking tape and covered the entire dash with it. This way I can write on it and see it. I then used my handy dandy see through ruler that I use for upholster layout. Has grids all over it and measures in every direction. I can see my marks thru the grid.

Here is pic of grid ruler
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2525/...70ecea84_b.jpg

CRL had the toggle switches much closer together, I decide to spread them out a little more so it would not leave so much open space on the dash and to make it that much more difficult to hit the wrong switch.

Note the CRL name on the gauges, I thought these were once custom made by CRL, but just maybe it was a fluke these came with the car. Really fortunate all this stuff still seems to be in such good shape after sitting around for about 18 years.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2555/...5e5f8e19_b.jpg

Put in another 12 hours over the last two days. Man sometimes progress seems slow. Later Ray

[Double Venom]

Ray,
If you got the old heater together- Congratulations! I used to tell new guys when you got past the heater you were half way there! However, if Budget allows jump ahead 25 years, get a Vintage Air Mini Heater/Defroster! It fits very nice totally behind the custom dash, puts out twice the heat and the defroster will actually work!
CR's Gauges: Wow I have only seen one set and that is with the Cobra I am building now! Very rare indeed. When the original CR's was operating and owned by RUTHERFORD those gauges were a marketing tool and given away with each new kit.

Gauges & Switches: Lay them out anyway you'd like, but remember, one change anywhere will require a modification to the dash harness. ( I haven't laid out the gauges or switches per the manual in years!)

But the best thing about that kit is it has to be one of first ones actually made by CR's before they started subletting the bodies out to "Henry"! Henry was not know for his quality glass work Although they were, OK, they took a lot more work to make them pretty!

DV

[trularin]

Ed, you're going to get drool on the keyboard...stop that!

[MaSnaka]

HRay,
Love the updates and photos. When I have something I can help you with I will, but for now I'm watching and learning. Keep up the good work and please keep us along every step of the way.

John

[Hray]

John: Thanks for the post, I was afraid of boring everyone and it not being helpful to anyone but me. I have cut down on some of the photos to prevent cluttering things up too much. Trying to only post relivant photos and specific enough info to be helpful. If anyone has more specific questions or would like additional photos just holler.

also, seems like I am reaching my photo upload limit on flickr without paying, havent't checked yet to as to what that would cost.

also, I do not know how long flickr will leave them posted there. I have clicked on some links in other posting here to find the link is no longer good. I guess that is one advantage of learning how to post them to this forum.

I am enjoying the build so far, just wait till you see my photos of how I convert my working space into a paint booth. the pictures of the 64 rambler on flickr was painted in the same space I am doing this cobra. it came out perfect and I mean perfect.

later gotta get back to work. Ray

[James Stern]

Hray, You aren't boring anyone. If they aren't interested in the thread let them change channels. I'm really enjoying your refreshing approach to the build. There are so many builds where cost is no object that this is something different. You may encourage others who stopped in the middle of their build. Keep up the good work and keep us posted. Maybe one of the more learned members can help you with posting the pics.

[tcrist]

Ray,
I'll try and come up on Saturday and learn ya. That is if I can remember my-self.
Or try here http://www.vso-software.fr/products/...ge-resizer.php

Terry

[tcrist]

Originally Posted by Double Venom

Ray,
CR's Gauges: Wow I have only seen one set and that is with the Cobra I am building now! Very rare indeed. When the original CR's was operating and owned by RUTHERFORD those gauges were a marketing tool and given away with each new kit.

DV

DV,
Do you know what brand the gauges are the CRL had their "brand" put on?

Terry

[Hray]

Greeting; or good evening folks:

Got into the garage late this evening at 6;30. I do know about anyone else but I talk to my cars. Walked in and I said, 'lets dance', thinking I would be the strong lead and get some things really accomplished. Note: I used to be a ballroom dance instructor so I can get along fairly well on the floor.

Little did I know she wanted to do the 3 step, but not steps forward, some steps backward. I should have caught on earlier last week when she wanted to do that one step back thing. Guess as we get older we are thicker headed and do not learn as quickly. The right turn signal was up against the metal steering bracket. Got out the ole grinder and let the sparks fly. hey aint that what you do with someone that wants to dance, let sparks fly. After a few minutes the dash went in just fine.

The next step was when I tried to mount the front hood hinge above the radiator. My fancy dancy custom shroud was too high and the hinges were hitting it. Fortunatly, I only installed it with a zip tie, so removing that was easy enough and fortunatley there was just enough room at the bottom of radiator to move the entire fan and shroud down just enough to clear it. might have to cut a small grove into top of shroud but that will be fine.

On the next step she had for me I had to say "rats", Like when I decided to bolt on the seat runners to the seats I saw where rats had eaten the bottom two inches of the upholstery away to build nests with. This one I can not fix that quickly, but hopefully, I have another set in the barn just like these only without the rat damage. I was wanting to redo the seats anyway if I have time. I seem to think the black will be fairly hot in the summer. So maybe a grey to match the stripes will be in order. I can sew up new seats and door panels in a couple of days at the most.

My approach now is to put as many of these sub assemblies together as possible. I have it seems like hundreds of these parts laying around and not sure exatly where they all fit. It doesn't help to have two of everything because that just confuses me more.

Enough for tonite, here is the dash sitting in the car, got the glove box cut out and test fit, and laid the new steering wheel on top of the other just for the photo shoot.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2518/...514bd450_b.jpg

Nite; Well it is almost tomorrow. Terry come on up and help me with this computer picture thing, it would be greatly appreciated. likewise I will try this other link someone posted for me.

PS: ED, I agree on that vintage air, I think this system they have is a joke. the air just flows across the core and not thru the core. that has got to be not good at all. I like the heater to work, plus there are other benefits. This is a tip for the youngsters out there. When driving in hot weather and your motor begins to heat up, turn the AC off, roll down the windows, turn the heater on full blast and watch the heat temp go down just about immediately. This also helps in parades if and when you have to. So if funds do not allow for that vintage system now I may just do without and when my ship comes in I will spring for maybe heat and AC. Hey why not, they have AC on motorcycles now.

[Double Venom]

Ray,
Your attitude and fortitude do quack me up! We'll play 20 questions. CptEddie and I did! describe the "piece" in ten words or less and I will try to tell you where they go, besides the trash!

Terry for a benefit of a rumor only, I heard they were Stewart Warner or Autometers?
I'll look at the gauges I have today and see if I can't verify the manufacturer.
What Ray has posted is them!
DV

[Hray]

Update; DV and Terry: These gauges came in a nice packaged cardboard box, complete with little compartments to keep them from banging around. The instructions for each gauage call them marine gauages, the brand on the instructions are TeleFlex inc, from Sarasota Florida. I am sure an internet search could see if they are still in business. The mechanical speedo matches all the others in every aspect. I would not have thought a marine company would have made a mechanical speedo.

ED, just in case you do not have all the instructions and need them just let me know.

Today update, spent time cleaning some, then used a tap to clean out every hole that seemed to take a screw or bolt in it. then bolted on hood hinge, bolted on hood thima-a-gig, it keeps hood closed when it is supposed to. Just wanted to make sure it fits. Put bolts into the hood hinge plates, will leave the there for the build to keep from paint and primer filling them up.

did some grinding to allow the side vents to fit, then sanded and polished one side. here is before and after pix.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2605/...3729d6d3_b.jpg

Got in about 4 hours today, had visitors and spent time chatting.

nite all....

[Double Venom]

TeleFlex is a high end type of gauge. Marine gauges are about the best gauges you can put in you car. (Waterproof and all that) the only other company I know of that make marine gauges is Livorsi, also out of Florida! Just about any quality boat has TeleFlex or Livorsi gauges. We used Livorsi for all the Double Venom cars.
DV

[Double Venom]

TeleFlex is a high end type of gauge. Marine gauges are about the best gauges you can put in you car. (Waterproof and all that) the only other company I know of that make marine gauges is Livorsi, also out of Florida! Just about any quality boat has TeleFlex or Livorsi gauges. We used Livorsi for all the Double Venom cars.

"ED, just in case you do not have all the instructions and need them just let me know."

????Huh???
DV

[Hray]

Ed: What I was trying to say is that if you have the same gauges I have and you do not have the wiring instructions let me know and I will get them to you. Of course, I would suspect you could wire these up without instructions.

Short update, took most of the day off running around, went up to see emerson and watch how the pros do it.

I just for fun of it bolted on the drivers door and the door latch mechanism, I might leave it on for block sanding and priming since I can get to most all sides of it.

later Ray