New member with "barn find" question

[twobjshelbys]

Your goal was correctly stated in that the duty of the executor is to maximize the income for the estate. This forum has some good contacts but SAAC will ultimately be your best resource.

You did not say where the car is located. I have some contacts that may be able to help (and would be disinterested parties) that can help with the authenticity. If they are close by they would probably hop at the chance to help.

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by Jeff Frigo

CSX number please!!!

+1

This is where it will all begin. Sooner is better than later.

Ed

[D111]

Originally Posted by jeff frigo

csx number please!!!

csx troll :lol:

[tcrist]

Originally Posted by tommcb99

Thanks for the quick replies. I'm fairly certain it's fact, not fantasy, as I remember when she purchased the car back in 1965. I was appalled at what she paid for it: $6,900, which was a lot of money for a car back then.

I'll see if I can get the CSX number from my cousin and post it. I know she gave all the info to the person she talked to, who got back to her with essentially the complete history of the car, including the dealership in California from where she purchased it. He didn't give a value to my cousin and is pushing her hard to put it in an auction that apparently a club he's in runs. I just want to make sure we don't get screwed on the price. I know that fully restored original Shelbys from the mid-sixties can easily go for the mid to high six figures. This one, of course, as a barn find, is another story.

I'll see if I can get the info and post it.

Thanks again for the replies.

Tom

This little note would be what worries me. IF it is a real CSX from 1965 and untouched, you would be better to sell it at one of the big auctions houses, not some local club.

Like said, get all of your information together and send either by PM or e-mail to Ron "computerworks".

Also, from what I understand "do not wash off the car" at all and keep the finger marks off of it also. This could be a rare find and it would be best if it was left, like it was found.
In addition, take a bunch of pictures of where it has been stored. History is very good to have.

Just my two cents and we know what that is worth.

[Trueoo7]

Originally Posted by eschaider

Tom,

This is a barn find I stumbled across a few years ago



It was in exceptional company. The car on the left is a like new Allard and the Benz on the right is a 300 SL Gullwing. In total there were more than 30 cars in the 'barn'.

The plate the guys are talking about looks like this



My barn find Cobra needed to have the engine rebuilt - it had seized up! After the rebuild it sat for a while as potential buyers mulled it over in our bad economy. A sale is finally about close and the agreed upon price is middle six figures.

This should give you some sense of what yours is worth.

BTW if your cousin is really serious about her executrix responsibilities she will not get secretive about this stuff. The #1 responsibility of the executor / executrix of an estate is to be sure all the taxes are paid. In the event the estate has insufficient funds to pay the taxes she becomes personally liable!

It is decidedly in her best interests to get fair market value (or better if possible) for the estate property. A turtle/ostrich mentality is a sure way to get into trouble. Get some professional counsel and pay attention to what the guys on the site here tell you, we actually have some lawyers on here who are Cobra enthusiasts and they are pretty smart guys.

Ed

Is that true about being personally liable?

[*13*]

Where's the Beef!!!?

[jwd]

Originally Posted by Trueoo7

Is that true about being personally liable?

No!!!!!

[undy]

I'd be very surprised if we hear from the OP again...

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Trueoo7

Is that true about being personally liable?

Originally Posted by jwd

No!!!!!

I don't want to derail this thread, so anyone interested in the real answer can just read this read this very short PDF on Executor personal liability.

http://www.williamsmullen.com/files/...%20-%20Cha.pdf

[jwd]

Originally Posted by eschaider

In the event the estate has insufficient funds to pay the taxes she becomes personally liable!

Originally Posted by jwd

No!!!!!

Originally Posted by patrickt

http://www.williamsmullen.com/files/...%20-%20Cha.pdf

Thanks for posting the link. My answer still stands. Now, back to waiting for the serial number.

[mrmustang]

Guys, with the holiday weekend and such, give the OP the benefit of the doubt (and a few days to find out the information)........

Bill S.

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by Trueoo7

Is that true about being personally liable?

Everyone is entitled to make their own decisions. Patrickt's link to the pdf on Executor's personal liability is telling the straight story. There are a small group of people who will tell you the Federal Income Tax is unconstitutional. There are others that actually believe this to the extent they don't pay their tax. Later after they have been convicted and sentenced to Jail time (like Wesley Snipes) they repent stating they had received "bad advice" from a trusted advisor.

As individuals we all have the freedom to make any choice we wish. Choice however does have consequences soooo, as the old Knight's Templar said to Indy in the cave just before he selects the Holy Grail from all the other chalices - choose wisely!

I will suggest to you my earlier statement is 100.00% True! For those who choose not to believe it - that is your right.

For the rest of us, the Estate Executor/Executrix has the primary responsibility of paying all the taxes the estate owes before anything else. After taxes come other financial obligations. If there are insufficient funds to pay the taxes you have an "Estate Sale" to generate the funds. If there are still insufficient funds then the Executor/Executrix becomes personally liable.

Estate Sales are what happens when people who should have done Estate Planning chose not to (choice again). They are public exhibitions of extreme incompetence in the Estate Planning arena!

If your Executor/Executrix has paid all taxes and debts and then wants to liquidate the Estate's Assets for other reasons, auctions at places like Christies are the smarter way to go.

Ed

[jwd]

Originally Posted by eschaider

I will suggest to you my earlier statement is 100.00% True! For those who choose not to believe it - that is your right.
Ed

You need to read the 3rd paragraph of Patrick's link. The only way the executor is liable for any taxes is if they distributed funds/property PRIOR to paying all outstanding taxes. If the estate isn't worth the amount of taxes owed, the full value of the estate goes toward the tax bill. The executor IS NOT liable for the unpaid balance.
Many people have attorney's as executors. Do you really think they would subject themselves to that kind of a liability?

[Dennis O'Shea]

I really Don't understand all this legal "MUMBO JUMBO" I just want to know is this Car for real or a Figment of someone imagination

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by jwd

You need to read the 3rd paragraph of Patrick's link. The only way the executor is liable for any taxes is if they distributed funds/property PRIOR to paying all outstanding taxes. If the estate isn't worth the amount of taxes owed, the full value of the estate goes toward the tax bill. The executor IS NOT liable for the unpaid balance.
Many people have attorney's as executors. Do you really think they would subject themselves to that kind of a liability?

Patrickt's link tells you how you can mitigate the liability. It does not tell you you have no liability.

You do have the right to believe you have no liability. If you choose to believe that - that is your privilege and choice. It's one of the great things about living in this country.

Hissy fits not withstanding we still need a CSX number ...

Ed

[ACademic]

If it is what they say it is, I'd skip the legal fumbling and get that sucker insured RIGHT NOW for at least $500K. And anyone that is remotely interested (and capable of purchasing) that car has probably already contacted the executor of the estate. You can't contain information like this for very long.

[tommcb99]

Hi all,

Just wanted to close the loop on my post here, as I'm sure everyone thinks it's total B.S.

Well, I talked to my cousin (the executor of the estate that the Cobra now belongs to) and she's been contacted by RM Auctions, which as I understand it is a high-end collector's car auction house. She gave them the details, including serial number and it seems they went nuts. They traced it and found there was a 17 year period of time where there was no recording of it, which is about the amount of time it sat in the garage.

Anyway, it's going to go up at their August auction in Monterey, California. She was told that Carroll Shelby might be there, health permitting.

Based on previous people's post here (by the way, thank you), I told her she needs to insure it for at least $500K. Not sure what she'll do but she said she'd check with the auction house.

In the meantime, she said that RM auctions told her to not release any information about the car, to keep it as a true barn find. I'm not sure this is good advice, but she's doing what they tell her now. They said this will increase the value, which is what a couple of posters here have said, but I have my doubts...but what do I know!

I know, I know...no serial number means just another poster with a fabricated story. All I can tell you is to check out the auction in August. I'm sure this will be the only barn find 289 Cobra in the auction.

Thanks for all the comments and advice. I guess it's now up to the auction house.

Tom

[LMH]

Sounds like a true one to me. RM wouldn't be as interested in it if it wasn't and that's a great way to sell it. If you get a lot number for the car, let us know so we can follow it.
Larry

[eschaider]

Did I miss how RM found her and her contact information?

Normally the first contact between a car owner and an auction house is initiated by the car owner. If I understand you correctly, the auction house sought out your cousin?

Ed

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by tommcb99

Hi all,

Just wanted to close the loop on my post here, as I'm sure everyone thinks it's total B.S.

Well, I talked to my cousin (the executor of the estate that the Cobra now belongs to) and she's been contacted by RM Auctions, which as I understand it is a high-end collector's car auction house. She gave them the details, including serial number and it seems they went nuts. They traced it and found there was a 17 year period of time where there was no recording of it, which is about the amount of time it sat in the garage.

Anyway, it's going to go up at their August auction in Monterey, California. She was told that Carroll Shelby might be there, health permitting.

Based on previous people's post here (by the way, thank you), I told her she needs to insure it for at least $500K. Not sure what she'll do but she said she'd check with the auction house.

In the meantime, she said that RM auctions told her to not release any information about the car, to keep it as a true barn find. I'm not sure this is good advice, but she's doing what they tell her now. They said this will increase the value, which is what a couple of posters here have said, but I have my doubts...but what do I know!

I know, I know...no serial number means just another poster with a fabricated story. All I can tell you is to check out the auction in August. I'm sure this will be the only barn find 289 Cobra in the auction.

Thanks for all the comments and advice. I guess it's now up to the auction house.

Tom

Tom,

Something sounds foul here, I highly suggest you PM Ron or myself with the CSX number as RM would never, and I do mean NEVER give out such advice. Your relative might be in the middle of a potential scam to defraud.


Bill S.