4 spd vs 5 spd pros and cons

[Thor maine]

Today you have to go with a 5spd. As for those who are all about accuracy just something to chew on. Today a real Shelby kit comes from the factory set for a 5 spd or 6spd or 4spd or an automatic what ever you order Shelby factory set. So just throw a bent mustang shifter on it and enjoy.

[66gtk]

Nothing wrong with a properly set up engine, rear, and 4 speed combo. Very enjoyable unless you plan to commute regular long distances. Definitely should not be a deal breaker to have a Toploader in a properly built car - especially one with an FE. My SPF had a TKO 600 and shifting 1-4 was really not much different than a dedicated Toploader. I was surprised how much I liked it in that regard. I very rarely found myself using the 5th gear though. Granted, I didn't drive it very much or own it very long. But for the roads around here, 5th gear wasn't necessary.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by DanEC

Transmission choice may depend on your age and past car ownership. I'm old enough that a Muncie or Toploader 4 speed just feels natural and I like the feel of a good Hurst shifter/linkage. If you are younger than me and driven mostly 5 and 6 speed cars then it's logical that's the way you would want to go.

I have a 6 speed Mustang GT for a daily driver and in town I feel like I'm driving a truck in going through all 6 gears. So, what do I do - skip a couple gears and end up driving it like a 4 speed.

It's kind of a decision you need to make based on your own experiences and preferences.

You guys enjoying your black & white TV's and those operater-assisted phone calls on your rotary dial phones too?

I have two words for you. Oy vey.

[peterpjb]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

You guys enjoying your black & white TV's and those operater-assisted phone calls on your rotary dial phones too?

I have two words for you. Oy vey.

why not, i am enjoying also mechanical watches and vinyl records ....

....normaly classic car enthusiasts are enjoying classic technique

aren't cobras primarily classic cars?....

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by DanEC

Transmission choice may depend on your age and past car ownership. I'm old enough that a Muncie or Toploader 4 speed just feels natural and I like the feel of a good Hurst shifter/linkage. If you are younger than me and driven mostly 5 and 6 speed cars then it's logical that's the way you would want to go.

I have a 6 speed Mustang GT for a daily driver and in town I feel like I'm driving a truck in going through all 6 gears. So, what do I do - skip a couple gears and end up driving it like a 4 speed.

It's kind of a decision you need to make based on your own experiences and preferences.

Originally Posted by Bernica

Just don't play the "Real" card. I am far from that. I just like the original feeling of what they had in the day and what I grew up with,.

Couldn't have said it better myself, Bernica and Dan. OK, my 289FIA replica has an aluminium monocoque, but I wouldn't even consider anything but an SBF, and although the gearbox isn't a T10, it's period correct and it will give me that "original feeling" and simplicity that I'm chasing. I'm not going to do any 'continent crossing' or heavy traffic work, so a lack of a 5th or 6th gear is of no concern.

To the OP, do you like modern gearboxes with modern gearshifts, or do you want the gearshift feel of a '60s Toploader? A lot of Cobra replica owners do continual development on their cars, so what you start out with doesn't have to be what you eventually end up with. These cars are meant to be 'developed' to suit. After all, that's part of the 'affliction'.

Cheers,
Glen

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

You guys enjoying your black & white TV's and those operater-assisted phone calls on your rotary dial phones too?

I have two words for you. Oy vey.

The old B&W crapped out a while back - used it in the garage to listen to Judge Judy. Had to upgrade to an old garage sale color TV - with wait for it - a remote control. I do still have a desk top push button phone and my cell phone is an old Samsung first owned by my wife about 10 years ago - I can't hardly do anything with it except make a call out. I have to give it back to her to change settings, erase messages etc. So yes, I am a bit out of date and growing more so every year.

[BAD ASP]

I went with the viper t-56 6spd..... as one of your earlier replies shows on a 5 speed this car with its 6th gear will be turning 1500 rpm @ 54 mph and 2000 @ 74 so at highway speeds it is as economical as it gets and extends the range on these small gas tanks. I also notice that the gear transitions are smoother.... my wife appreciated that as a passenger. Purists will have their say and I toyed with things as well...... the viper tranny is rated to 800 hp. so it is robust enough for almost all of our applications... here is the gear calc.... i have 565 rwhp on a mustang dyno....

Gear 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
Trans Ratio 2.66 1.78 1.30 1.00 0.79 0.63
Overall Ratio 9.44 6.32 4.62 3.55 2.80 2.24
Split 1.49 1.37 1.30 1.27 1.25
Rev/Mile 6,845 4,581 3,345 2,573 2,033 1,621
1500 13 20 27 35 44 56
2000 18 26 36 47 59 74
2500 22 33 45 58 74 93
3000 26 39 54 70 89 111
3500 31 46 63 82 103 130
4000 35 52 72 93 118 148
4500 39 59 81 105 133 167
5000 44 65 90 117 148 185
5500 48 72 99 128 162 204
6000 53 79 108 140 177 222
6500 57 85 117 152 192 241
7000 61 92 126 163 207 259

[Clois Harlan]

Chad,

My Cobra is a lot like Lou's with about the same hp and for 14 years I have raced and played real hard with my TopLoader 4 sp and except for one time it had performed flawlessly (broke the main shaft at the drags in St. Louis at Run N Gun with some really big drag slicks after turning mid 11's on previous run). But, last year I dropped in a TKO 600 with the .82 fifth gear and I absolutely love it because when I am on the freeway I am not turning 3500 RPM's at 70 mph. I get better gas mileage (as though that matters) and it is much more fun to drive around town. I have retired the Cobra from the road course and drag strip. I may have something else for road racing in the near future.

Your choice but IMO unless you have an original it really doesn't matter what you put in it because most people just know it is a Cobra that sounds really awesome and goes like stink.

[blykins]

Nothing shifts better than a Toploader with a Hurst shifter. That's coming from a guy who sells TKOs.

At 55 mph with a 3.54 gear and a 26" tire, you'll be at 2500 rpm. That's not straining the engine by any means.

If you plan on driving a lot at 70-75, then I would prob give the nod to a TKO as the rpms will get excessive there, but if you are doing most of your driving at 55-60, I see no drawback to a Toploader.

Most guys here are used to BMWs, Porsches, and Vettes....cruising at 70 mph with the tach at 1200 rpm. A Toploader would be more of a "Cobra" experience.

[TheExtreme]

IMHO, I believe there are pros and cons to 4/5/6 spd trannies. Period correct, original feel, comfort, sound, rpms you like to run at, etc. Personal preference is what it is all about. I run a 408 with a Richmond Street 5spd (3.28, 2.13, 1.57, 1.24, 1.00) and 3.00 ring and pinion. I really like it. @2500 rpm at 70. It's really a trial and error to find what fits your needs and what you feel comfortable with. YMMV.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by blykins

Nothing shifts better than a Toploader with a Hurst shifter. That's coming from a guy who sells TKOs.

At 55 mph with a 3.54 gear and a 26" tire, you'll be at 2500 rpm. That's not straining the engine by any means.

If you plan on driving a lot at 70-75, then I would prob give the nod to a TKO as the rpms will get excessive there, but if you are doing most of your driving at 55-60, I see no drawback to a Toploader.

Most guys here are used to BMWs, Porsches, and Vettes....cruising at 70 mph with the tach at 1200 rpm. A Toploader would be more of a "Cobra" experience.

No one drives 55-60, even in CA. That is simply a recipe for disaster on American roads. That means you'll be driving in the slow lane where other drivers are either entering or exiting the freeway.

And a Toploader doesn't give anyone more of a "Cobra" experience. It's all in one's head. Cobra experience? What is that? Has anyone here driven an original 1960's Cobra to get the Cobra experience? I doubt it. Leave the TKO in 4th gear then, if that gives you more "Cobra" experience.

I've owned several Mustangs with Toploaders and a '66 Corvette 427 Convertible with a M21 and then switched it out for a TKO. Both my Corvette and Cobra experiences are the same in terms of shifting. It's all in your head.

[RodKnock]

And I'm assuming we're talking about a wide ratio Toploader (2.78 1st), because the close ratio (2.32 1st) is a joke, right?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by peterpjb

why not, i am enjoying also mechanical watches and vinyl records ....

....normaly classic car enthusiasts are enjoying classic technique

aren't cobras primarily classic cars?....

Carrying around that vinyl record player when you run, hike or bike seems like such a hassle.

An original genuine 1960's Cobra is a classic car, but unfortunately for 99.99% of us, we own replicas and/or kit cars mostly built in the new millennium.

As for watches, sorry, but I don't understand that hobby. I just need to know the time.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by DanEC

The old B&W crapped out a while back - used it in the garage to listen to Judge Judy. Had to upgrade to an old garage sale color TV - with wait for it - a remote control. I do still have a desk top push button phone and my cell phone is an old Samsung first owned by my wife about 10 years ago - I can't hardly do anything with it except make a call out. I have to give it back to her to change settings, erase messages etc. So yes, I am a bit out of date and growing more so every year.

Dan, who hangs the freshly washed clothes, from the nearby stream, on the clothes line in the backyard, you or your wife?

You know, for that "period correctness."

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Dan, who hangs the freshly washed clothes, from the nearby stream, on the clothes line in the backyard, you or your wife?

You know, for that "period correctness."

You got me there. We just refer to it as own eco-fresh scent dryer sheets.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by DanEC

You got me there. We just refer to it as own eco-fresh scent dryer sheets.

It's OK that you and I have different definitions of what "streaming" means.

[peterpjb]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Carrying around that vinyl record player when you run, hike or bike seems like such a hassle.

An original genuine 1960's Cobra is a classic car, but unfortunately for 99.99% of us, we own replicas and/or kit cars mostly built in the new millennium.

As for watches, sorry, but I don't understand that hobby. I just need to know the time.

don't mix "classic" and "original "

[Clois Harlan]

Blykins is right but here as in most cities if your not running 75 or 80 between 5:30 am and 9:00 PM you are going to get moved out of the way. Even the freeway cops run those speeds.

As far as shifting ease the Toploader and Hurst is a nice match. I can honestly say I have never got my toploader hung up between gears.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by Clois Harlan

Blykins is right but here as in most cities if your not running 75 or 80 between 5:30 am and 9:00 PM you are going to get moved out of the way. Even the freeway cops run those speeds.

As far as shifting ease the Toploader and Hurst is a nice match. I can honestly say I have never got my toploader hung up between gears.

Yup. My Toploader is like my old Timex watch that I wear every day. It just keeps on tickin'!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by peterpjb

don't mix "classic" and "original "

A 1960's car is a classic. And it's the original. Cobras made after the original production in the 1960's aren't classics. They're modern interpretations of the original, replicas, kit cars, not classic.

Phrases like "period correct" and "Cobra experience" are really utter nonsense, when few, if any, of us have actually had a real genuine Cobra experience to replicate. But boy, we sure will get that "Cobra experience" by shifting through a 50-60 year old transmission that cannot keep up with modern traffic conditions and a transmission that cannot be seen by naked eye. So period correctness, is just via one's imagination until he or she puts their Cobra on a hydraulic lift for service.

And gee whiz, that Toploader/Hurst package shifts like butter in comparison to the Tremec TKO600/Steeda Tri-Ax combo.

How about using the Tremec's 2.87 1st gear (versus the WR Toploader's 2.78) to get out of the hole quicker, when waiting for that metering light to turn green at the nearest freeway onramp? Won't that increased holeshot give you a greater feeling of the Cobra experience?

The ONLY sane reason to choose a Toploader is simply the difference in money. Anyone that thinks shifting a Toploader via their Hurst Competition Plus shifter to recreate the 1960's and run their $20,000-$30,000 Windsor and FE engines at 4,000 RPM @ 65 MPH (or whatever) for 30 minutes or a 1-2 (or more) hour drive, is simply living in Fantasyland.