4 spd vs 5 spd pros and cons

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Sure the old stuff works fine, but for those among us who prefer a quieter ride so you can have a conversation and not get tinnitus before we're 90 years old, freeway RPM's less than 3,500-4,000 RPM, less wear and tear on our expensive engines, the lower 1st gear of the Tremec (2.87 or 3.27 versus 2.78 or 2.32) and better gas mileage, then the modern tranny is a better choice.

My hearing is shot anyways from 40 years in the construction industry, so I am going ahead and putting un-packed classic chambered exhaust on it and just listen to the pipes in all 4 gears!

[Dwight]

Bernica, I installed 3" Classic Chamber on my Cobra. They were 28" long which was 4" longer than the old ones. I did turn the louvers the correct way this time.
They are quieter at speed than my old pipes. You can carry on a conversation with your passenger at 60 - 70 mph.

I think a 5 speed is the only way to go.

Dwight

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Bernica

My hearing is shot anyways from 40 years in the construction industry, so I am going ahead and putting un-packed classic chambered exhaust on it and just listen to the pipes in all 4 gears!

If your hearing is shot, then how are you going to listen to your unpacked classic chambered exhaust?

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by Dwight

Bernica, I installed 3" Classic Chamber on my Cobra. They were 28" long which was 4" longer than the old ones. I did turn the louvers the correct way this time.
They are quieter at speed than my old pipes. You can carry on a conversation with your passenger at 60 - 70 mph.

I think a 5 speed is the only way to go.

Dwight

Mine are 22" as per what I took off. And no, I don't need no stinkin' 5th gear!
Now I just read that next year Ford will offer an F-150 with a 10-speed. Seriously?

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

If your hearing is shot, then how are you going to listen to your unpacked classic chambered exhaust?

It's not shot. My wife claims that I hear just what I want to!
Certain decibel ranges are shot from years of loud, but far from deaf!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Bernica

Now I just read that next year Ford will offer an F-150 with a 10-speed. Seriously?

You better get to your rotary dial phone fast, call your local Ford dealer, then saddle up the horse and carriage.

[Bernica]

Rodnock, you may not even realize it but you are becoming a troll. I led you right into that one just to confirm! You're a good guy, but try to provide occasional substance. Just sayin'...

[blykins]

You can block members through the forum software I think.

I would have to agree, RK....not everyone enjoys the constant belittling when someone posts a statement different to your opinion. You may think it's funny.....many of us don't.

We understand your thoughts on the subject....let it go.

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

You better get to your rotary dial phone fast, call your local Ford dealer, then saddle up the horse and carriage.

Wait a minute - rotary dial phone - you're getting me and Bernica confused.

Hang in there Bernica - 1, 2, 3 & 4 to go.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Sure the old stuff works fine, but for those among us who prefer a quieter ride so you can have a conversation and not get tinnitus before we're 90 years old, freeway RPM's less than 3,500-4,000 RPM, less wear and tear on our expensive engines, the lower 1st gear of the Tremec (2.87 or 3.27 versus 2.78 or 2.32) and better gas mileage, then the modern tranny is a better choice.

Bernica, you're a good guy too, but the title of this thread is about the pros and cons of a 4-speed versus 5-speed in a Cobra replica. Merely, stating that you prefer "the feel" of the Toploader is purely subjective. How do you define "the feel"? How do you define the "Cobra experience" when almost no one here has actually owned or driven an original Cobra?

Yet, as I pointed out above (see my quote), the advantages of the 5-speed are:

1. Lower 1st gear ratio, for better starts,
2. Lower noise at cruising speeds, for better for hearing,
3. Increased gas mileage, for reducing your gas bill and traveling farther in between stops,
4. Less wear and tear on your expensive engine
5. Tremecs are new transmissions, Toploaders are old transmissions, so you're more likely to see threads about "popping out of gear" with old transmissions than with newer ones, though there are exceptions to every rule.

And the disadvantage of the Tremec is the cost, though I'm not sure how much a rebuilt Toploader sells for these days.

Personally, I find what I said as "substance" and exactly what the OP requested. And I find phrases such as the "feel of the Toploader" and the heightened "Cobra experience" as subjective opinion and pure nonsense.

I apologize to you for having some fun with the retro comparison comments (e.g., rotary phone, horse-drawn carriage, vinyl records, etc.), but that is just my sarcastic humor being drawn out. However, I do find that I have given the OP "substance" in response to his/her question, so if you find that to be trolling then I disagree with you.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by blykins

You can block members through the forum software I think.

Here's some substance. Yes, you can block members. Under "User CP", click on "Edit Ignore List." And you can type-in any member name there that you would like to block.

[Bernica]

Just checked my receipt from David Kee from a long time ago.
427 aluminum flywheel
4-speed WR toploader (NASCAR) with 1-3/8" input.

The interesting topic that hasn't been covered here is the aluminum flywheel on a toploader. I know...there are many threads about alum flywheels, but I am speaking to a toploader.

[427sharpe]

Back to the original point & post: my .02:
1. I don't really buy the 'original looks' argument. Most 5 speeds now have
an 'original look' shift handle available and the only way to tell would be
the top of the knob (shift pattern) or a look under the car; and it is far
easier to spot a replica than climbing underneath!

2. The 5 speeds (TKO500=95 lbs) tend to be lighter (barely) than a
toploader (98) [Trans ONLY: loaded the tko's are 105lbs, TL 109]

3. The 5 speed can keep the engine in a lower rev ban, saving stress and
expense both during engine build and general economy (gas).

4. Performance of the 5 speed will match a toploader AND give decent
cruising. I own a '66 GT350 and the little 289 really hums with 3.89 gears
on the highway! Storing the 4 speed and installing a T5 WC made the car
MUCH more driveable and enjoyable.

5. A close ratio TL ratios are: 2.32/1.69/1.29/1 and the tko500/600 are:

(500 ) 3.27 1.97 1.34 1.00 0.68
(600) 2.87 1.89 1.28 1.00 0.82
(600) 2.87 1.89 1.28 1.00 0.64

6. Final drive ratio is the key! : Buying a TKO600 and installing a 5.36 rear is
nonsensical. IMHO; follow the lead of Shelby and use a .64/.68 OD; so
3.54 FDR (mainly street) or 3.73/4.11 (competition).

7. RPM @ 70, using 295/50R15 (26.61" tall):
3.56 FDR: TL: 3129 rpm; TKO (.64) 2015 rpm; (.68) 2139
3.73 FDR: TL: 3297 rpm; TKO (.64) 2112 rpm; (.68) 2245

8. Note that the 3.73/.68 will give (IMO) the best overall performance--great
acceleration AND nearly 1k less rpm than the 3.56/TL combo @ 70!!

9. Final consideration is the engine build itself. Did you build a 8k screamer or
a 6000 rpm street engine? Ideally,the trans you install wants to keep the
engine in its' powerband as much as possible--not over the cam limit and
not lugging. I suggest looking at your cam specs and playing with a
calculator like this: Tire Size, RPM, Speed, and Differential Ratio Calculator
/?ratio=2.54 to figure it all out.

10. Good luck and happy driving!

[Bernica]

Well written 427sharpe! Nice job and I enjoyed it.
To the OP, you are clearly getting a lot of opinions here, but no one can decide but you. That's how it works...

[blykins]

IMO, one of the biggest factors in choosing a transmission is the camshaft. When my customers order TKOs, I'll do an rpm/gear ratio calculation and figure out where they will be on cruise rpm.

Most guys want a lumpy cam and lumpy cams generally don't like to be lugged at low rpm. I'll usually pair the engine with a .82 OD to aid in that.

[YerDugliness]

My replica has the WC T-5 trans with the high 5th (overdrive) gear....0.63 I think it is, but I could be off a bit.

I find first gear to be useless for anything other than parades...but that long overdrive gear gets used every time I'm on the road. If I were road racing I might want the closer ratio 0.8? overdrive, but I'm not. My replica gets 25 mpg on the highway and typically runs around 2,500 RPM doing it. My differential has the Ford Traction-Loc 3.73 gears.

As for daily highway use, I start from dead stops in second gear, skip 3rd and go directly to 4th and on to the OD 5th gear, unless I'm tooling around town, then I use only 2nd and 3rd. That OD gets used ONLY for cruising. If I need to pass something on the highway, I'll usually downshift to 4th just to get the rev's up, but never need to go down as far as 3rd gear.

As far as a daily driver, I like my setup VERY much...in fact, in dry weather (NOT unusual here in SW Kansas) my replica IS my daily driver on most days.

Cheers!

Dugly

[blykins]

A T-5 is another transmission that shifts like butter.....unfortunately they just don't hold up to a good amount of horsepower/torque.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by blykins

IMO, one of the biggest factors in choosing a transmission is the camshaft. When my customers order TKOs, I'll do an rpm/gear ratio calculation and figure out where they will be on cruise rpm.

Most guys want a lumpy cam and lumpy cams generally don't like to be lugged at low rpm. I'll usually pair the engine with a .82 OD to aid in that.

Do you mean the biggest factor in choosing a transmission is which Tremec 5th gear to choose? That I know is debated here and often and definitely the camshaft size, tire size and type of driving matters.

But with the gears of the Tremec TKO600 being so close to the WR Toploader, and of course the 4th gear being 1.00 in each tranny, the only choice IMO for lumpy or non-lumpy cams is still the 5-speed.

My cam is fairly middling (245/252 @ 0.50), in terms of lumpiness, and I chose the .82 Tremec. And the .82 5th gear works perfectly for me cruising around town and the freeways.

Lastly, the OP hasn't even checked back since posting this thread, so he or she may have "left the building."

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Lastly, the OP hasn't even checked back since posting this thread, so he or she may have "left the building."

Yup. 4 pages of input in response to the OP's question, and nothing. I hate when that happens!!

[YerDugliness]

Originally Posted by blykins

A T-5 is another transmission that shifts like butter.....unfortunately they just don't hold up to a good amount of horsepower/torque.

I think my tires are the limiting factor for my replica now...the BFG T/A's are reported to be older than 20 years, which would be accurate given the verbal history I have received regarding the replica. At this point all it takes is a bit of throttle and the rear tires break loose...they must be as hard as Bakelite by now!! Once I get decent tires (which will be before it gets driven again) I'll get better traction and I'll need to be much more careful about how enthusiastic I will get with the right foot!

I know of sources for "strengthened" T-5's, and am quite curious about those used in the Chevy Astro vans, which are reported to be a stronger gearbox. At some point (hopefully, SOON!) there will be a HCI swap and then the balancing act between power and traction will ensue.

Cheers!

Dugly