Prospective Owner... The Second Time Around

[loxx]

Hello to all you Cobra fanatics. I wanted to introduce myself and get some thoughts down "on paper" for my future Cobra. Apologies for the long post, but maybe it'll help one of you help me! Or maybe it'll just help someone cure their boredom.

This is the second time I'm making this thread. I also posted almost 5 years ago, back in 2012. I was only 23 and had just finished school, was just getting started in my career, and lived in Saudi Arabia at the time. Now, I'm a lot more established in my field (although it's in a roller-coaster of an industry), am nearing 30, and my dad is almost 70. Cobras have always been dream cars for him and l, as a result, for me too. I'd like to... No... I'm GOING TO buy him a Cobra while he's still got some good driving years left in him. As soon as possible would be best.

I'm not sure what I'd like to purchase quite yet, but I have a few options in mind. Here are some interesting factors which are influencing my decision:

- I don't have the time to build something (I work away from home over 300 days a year). This makes a roller or turn-key pretty desirable

- We won't accept anything but a big block (I'm thinking Keith craft, lyrics, etc.)

- We tend to like correctness, but I don't mind a little "flair" in the design (backdraft) as long as the overall experience is still a blast and the product is still up to my quality standards.

- As a mechanical engineer by education, I have a great appreciation for what kirkham does with their chassis. It's easy to tell they're designed and built under the loving eye of an aerospace engineer. If money was no object, the choice would be easy for me. I'd buy the kirkham every time. Probably even over an original to be honest.

- Upon quick investigation at Barrett-Jackson, I find the quality of Superformance to be acceptable. I have seen the back drafts there as well and dont find much wrong with them either. I don't think they're quite up to par with the superformance, but that's the kind of thing I feel like I'd discover over time. I don't want to buy a backdraft and wish I would have gone with suoerofe, or buy a superformance and wish I'd gone with ERA, or buy and ERA and wish I'd gone with a Kirkham a few years down the line! It seems I've got to do some more research to really figure out what matters to me and how that balances with a budget.

- I like supporting manufacturing in the United States. It's just a personal principle of mine which I try to follow IF the quality of the product is comparable. If it isn't, I'll somewhat begrudgingly go somewhere else. Now that Superformance seems to have raised their prices quite a bit compared to a few years ago, it seems ERA might support my ideals in a financially comparable way. I'm figuring 100k for either one finished the way I want it with a very nice big block. It seems the ERA quality is a tad better than a Superformance too, so it seems like a no-brainer as long as the wait isn't too long for the ERA. I'd love to hear about anyone who thinks they'd be happier with an SPR than an ERA, and why you think so.

- If I was staying in my current position in my career, it'd be no problem for me to drop the cash for a Kirkham. However, I'm currently positioned to take a role which gives me a lot more responsibility for managing people and running the business, and also upward mobility (title-wise, at least), but which will require me to take a roughly 50-60% pay cut for a few years. It's all part of the master plan though. Merely a stepping stone toward much greater goals. Anyway, for that reason it seems something more in the SPR or ERA range of things would be the more sensible thing to do at this time.

I'm used to owning non-depreciating assets like 80s BMW M cars or Porsches, but this will clearly be a depreciating asset. If I can minimize that, it'd be great. That surely won't happen with any new options, however. The Kirkhams really seem to do well secondhand, but they also cost significantly more to build (im figuring on a minimum of $150k. I also don't know if they are offering rolling chassis only these days.. If so, that'd be a plus. If not, it's not as tempting.

Anyway, it also seems to me that an SPR or ERA bought used for around 50-70k is a good way to minimize the depreciation problem. I don't mind it if it's a little bit. I'd just be concerned about borrowing some money for a used one. I could swing that amount in cash after selling a few of my M cars, but I'd rather not have to do that. It'd be nice to have a financing option available so I can at least have the option to try and play the market and beat interest rates on a loan (rather than have the cash in the car and not be able to get a return on it at all).

Have you guys had luck with financing used SPRs or ERAs? How about a Kirkham? Would you not even recommend financing something like a Kirkham? Are most people buying in cash?

What other sage advice can you experienced owners give a guy like me? I'm sure I'll enjoy whatever I get, but I want to make the decision which will make me happiest in the long run too. I imagine I won't be happy about having to buy another Cobra years down the line if I want something different!

Thanks for your advice and I look forward to becoming a participating member no matter which path I take.

[loxx]

By the way, these superformance 20th anniversary cars have really caught my eye, but I think it'd be pretty foolish to buy a car just on looks alone. Still, it's very tempting!

[1795]

Financing may be difficult, as most banks/credit unions are hesitant towards financing something with a small market and no NADA value for them to look up. However, if you have a 401K or some other form of pension, or have a lot of equity in your house there are options. I have financed purchases with home equity loans and the person who bought my used ERA took a loan out of his 401K for the purchase.

Good luck in your pursuit.

[loxx]

Thank you, that is definitely an option. I hear Woodside credit is great to work with and they finance a lot of Barrett Jackson purchases including replicas. It may not be the absolute most prudent thing to do on the surface, but down the road the extra money spent might pay off. Just in the past 5 years the prices for all replicas have gone up, so although more can always be made, the cost to make them will rise with inflation at least. I believe certain brands will withstand the test of time better than others both physically and fiscally.

[Ron61]

You have named the most desirable cars. If I had the money the Kirkham would be my first choice and especially their Dayton an Coupe. We have a lot of Superformances around here and they are really great cars and well built. The only thing is if you buy a new one you will have to get an engine and transmission and have it installed. The ERAs are very good but you would need to find a used one that is already built for your purposes and if you do, be sure to drive it and look it over, even take some person that is familiar with them with you when you look at it. And that last part goes for any used Cobra. The quality of the build is everything.

Ron

[loxx]

Thank you Ron. I believe ERA will also do completed cars for a price. I'd have to go that route for a new one just due to lack of time.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by loxx

Thank you Ron. I believe ERA will also do completed cars for a price. I'd have to go that route for a new one just due to lack of time.

ERA will do anything if you throw enough money at them. But, a nicely decked out turnkey ERA car is knocking on the six figure door -- with a year wait time. To finance that, even with a 20% down payment, you're going to get a monthly debt service payment of over a grand, and the total interest you're paying over the life of the debt would be enough to buy a new daily driver.

You're only 28, start putting money in to a dedicated fund, even a "Christmas Club" account, and send a down payment to ERA about a year out from when you'll have the cash accrued. That way, you'll still be in your early 30's and you'll avoid the danger of making a stupid financial decision.

[loxx]

Thank you for the information about ERA Patrick. I may give them a call this week to discuss a build.

I can swing almost the entire 100k in cash, truth be told. Financing is more of an option to keep some of that money freed up for investment opportunities. The kirkham would definitely require a sizable loan though.

The thing is, my dad is somewhat healthy, but I don't think he'll be able to drive one of these for too many more years. The car is for him, not me (although I will love it just as much!). We had a little bit of a scare recently too which is what really spurred this into action. It was perfectly timed with our attendance of a barrett Jackson auction in Palm Beach where they always have at least a few of the Cobra companies displaying their cars. It's a for sure thing for me to do it this year. I will not allow myself to look back and say I wish I could have done this for my father.

[Ron61]

It is really great that you are doing this for and with your Father. And Patrickt is one of the more knowledgeable people on here about ERAs, so he is a good source of information.

Ron

[patrickt]

Alright. Give Peter P. a call and talk money and wait time. As I recall, a $5k check will get you in the queue and then you'll have plenty of time to make your final build choices or cancel it all and get a refund. ERAs and Kirkhams are the top of the line - both are better than the originals were when they were delivered.

[loxx]

Thank you Patrick, I think I'm going to give him a call today and will report back!

[loxx]

Just got off the phone with Peter. Nice guy. Confirmed $5k check will get me in line with about a year to wait for a turn-key. Probably 6 digits. So now the decision has to be do I want to wait and know I'm getting exactly what I want, or try and find one used with most of what I want.

Or go the kirkham route, but I feel that might be a little too rich for my blood with another 50-60% added on to the price tag.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by loxx

So now the decision has to be do I want to wait and know I'm getting exactly what I want, or try and find one used with most of what I want.

At 28, it's hard to wait for what you want. But, if you get something that has "most of what you want," and this little game we all play turns out to be your lifelong hobby, then you'll eventually sell it and have to do it all over again, because the car just doesn't have everything you want. OTOH, if you can manage to hold out for a year, then the car you have built will have every little bolt, adjustment, tweak, and option designed just for you, and you will likely keep that car for the rest of your life. I had roughly 25 years to think about how I wanted ERA-732 to look, feel, and what special options I needed and wanted. If I had to go back and change something on the build, I wouldn't change a single thing.

[1SwtRide]

You're a great son for doing this for your father. Major props to you.

While it appears you have narrowed your selections somewhat (and to great choices), before closing that door completely I highly recommend you give Jay at Vintage Motorsports (Backdraft Racing) a call to run through your goals - 888.427.1965 | Welcome to VINTAGE Motorsports. VMS really prides themselves on being the "Singer" of Cobras. Heck, the worst that can happen is you connect with another diehard Cobra fanatic

For sh!ts and giggles, check out my ongoing build thread to see the type of care VMS takes with their builds - Let me introduce BDR 1591 aka VMS Mayhem . As you'll see, VMS will do just about anything you want.

Best of luck!

John

[Mark IV]

We have a couple of finance sources for new or used Superformance cars. Walk into a regular bank and ask for financing and you will get the "deer in the headlamps" look as they have no book to value the cars and therefor place no collateral value to the car. Our sources understand the cars and know the values as they follow the sales of these cars.

We can steer you to these sources if contact us.

You are looking at some very nice options in ERA and Kirkham and would not be disappointed in them. The SPF will be less investment, but will also hold a very good resale number so long as you take care of it. Nome of them are worth much after being wrapped around a tree.......

[RodKnock]

Buy used. And buy with cash. And no lender will save you the hassle with working the lender into the transaction, when you will probably sell it.

Kirkham, SPF and ERA are all great cars.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

If I had to go back and change something on the build, I wouldn't change a single thing.

The rest of us would have painted it an actual color, not "B2 stealth bomber" beige.

[patrickt]

Yeah, yeah, yeah... what do you think the rate would be on an $80k 10yr loan on a Cobra, assuming you could get it. 8%... higher?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Yeah, yeah, yeah... what do you think the rate would be on an $80k 10yr loan on a Cobra, assuming you could get it. 8%... higher?

Assuming you can find a specialized loan, that's fixed. I'd speculate that a borrower would be lucky to see 10-year loan and 8%. And that $80,000 Cobra is now about $100,000 Cobra including interest.

If the OP had a HELOC, around 4%-ish, then maybe I'd finance a Cobra. Makes it easier to sell the car and cheaper with tax deductible interest.

I just think the whole process of selling a car with a specialized loan would be off-putting for any potential buyer.

"Ya, sure, you pay off my loan and the title will be in the mail to you in a few weeks from Podunk, USA."

Or maybe contact Toyota and see if they can extend their 0% financing to Cobras.

[rodneym]

I'll loan the kid money.
I'll be the first on a hard money loan.
Rate TBD.