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-   -   Researching any info re: Paul Cunningham, Competition Cobra privateer (http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/club-cobra-introduction-forum-introduce-yourself/144939-researching-any-info-re-paul-cunningham-competition-cobra-privateer.html)

Nedsel 10-15-2021 05:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbart (Post 1498139)
I've followed this thread with interest. I can't imagine this is the only CSX car with such a diverse "history". Thank you to all the experts out there doing their best to document these cars. I've watched what I thought was the original CSX 2049 race at Goodwood for many years. I have one question, is the Hart car(Netherlands) a knockoff of CSX 2049. If so, how can they advertise the car as 2049?
The manager of the storage facility in which Lance stored 2049 sold the wrecked chassis remains. The front portion with the VIN intact went through several owners before the car was restored with a new chassis, after which it was sold to the Netherlands as CSX 2049. That is the car that races at Goodwood.

Nedsel 10-15-2021 05:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ntCobra (Post 1498140)
Ned,

Since you have information about Hasselrig getting a loan to purchase CSX2049 do you know how much the loan was for? Or how much he paid for the car? Presumably it must have been a bargain price at the time since it was a very damaged car. I am not sure a bank would want to issue a loan for a car that seemed to be totaled, but I guess he would not have had to disclose the car's condition at the time he got the loan.
The car was financed through Haselrig's local Auto Club office. And yes, we have copies of the paperwork. He bought the wreck for $400 with payments of $50 per month.

1ntCobra 10-15-2021 06:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedsel (Post 1498141)
The manager of the storage facility in which Lance stored 2049 sold the wrecked chassis remains. The front portion with the VIN intact went through several owners before the car was restored with a new chassis, after which it was sold to the Netherlands as CSX 2049. That is the car that races at Goodwood.
So the front portion of the chassis with the VIN intact was stolen and used as the basis to construct an entirely new car without using any part of that original chassis?

And then I guess after it was realized that the front portion of the original chassis was stolen it was returned to Hasselrig who had a title to the car?

I am surprised that when the new chassis was built they did not try to use some part of the original chassis in the new chassis, like the part that had the serial number stamped in it. I am also surprised that the remains of the original chassis were not destroyed to get rid of it at the time the new chassis was made.

CompClassics 10-15-2021 08:39 AM
Deleted

Nedsel 10-15-2021 09:16 AM
John, it wasn't a bank loan, but made through the local auto-club. Irregular, to be sure. We have copies of the loan payments made to Abiden, but not the payments made to the lender.

Nedsel 10-15-2021 09:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ntCobra (Post 1498143)
So the front portion of the chassis with the VIN intact was stolen and used as the basis to construct an entirely new car without using any part of that original chassis?

And then I guess after it was realized that the front portion of the original chassis was stolen it was returned to Hasselrig who had a title to the car?

I am surprised that when the new chassis was built they did not try to use some part of the original chassis in the new chassis, like the part that had the serial number stamped in it. I am also surprised that the remains of the original chassis were not destroyed to get rid of it at the time the new chassis was made.
If you read the synopsis of the car's history in the Registry, this is covered. There was a lawsuit filed over the stolen chassis remains. Their ultimate disposition was never fully revealed. The current owners of the car are open about the fact that the wrecked remains are not being utilized in the reconstruction of 2049.

Blue66 10-15-2021 09:56 AM
Wow what a cluster :JEKYLHYDE Amazing Story and facts.

USC_COWBOY 10-15-2021 09:58 AM
Folks, now you see why I believe this is a concocted history of ownership as no one, at any time, has a complete ownership, pieces here, pieces there, traditional and regular ways and means to get to an end. In my opinion, several air-cars have been built with one in the Netherlands (Hart's car) being sold for millions and another one in Encinitas, CA being built and all of them without clear claims of ownership. Also, all this flim flam style of buying and selling done without the Cunningham ownership involvement, and shame on Shelby for not dealing with the Cunningham family before all this crap started.

This whole laughable story reminds me of how dirty money is laundered through multiple paper corporations to hide the truth. My hope and curse regarding those evil people is that they obtain their just rewards as they ultimately have their bastard creations help them meet their demise.

Buzz 10-15-2021 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedsel (Post 1498152)
If you read the synopsis of the car's history in the Registry, this is covered. There was a lawsuit filed over the stolen chassis remains. Their ultimate disposition was never fully revealed. The current owners of the car are open about the fact that the wrecked remains are not being utilized in the reconstruction of 2049.
Hi Ned, and thanks for shedding light on this very interesting saga. One question - can a car really be "reconstructed" without repairing or rebuilding any part of the original chassis? Can the title of an original Cobra be transferred to any vehicle that the legal holder of that title decides to attach it to - ie: a scratch-built Cobra (or even say - a Lotus Seven clone for that matter)?

patrickt 10-15-2021 10:08 AM
... and this thread is one reason why Jay Leno owns a replica Cobra.:cool:

1ntCobra 10-15-2021 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedsel (Post 1498152)
If you read the synopsis of the car's history in the Registry, this is covered. There was a lawsuit filed over the stolen chassis remains. Their ultimate disposition was never fully revealed. The current owners of the car are open about the fact that the wrecked remains are not being utilized in the reconstruction of 2049.
I guess I should get a copy of the latest registry as my older copies are out of date. ;)

So it seems that the car in Europe was created based on ownership of the original chassis at the time but not a valid title.

And Hasselrig has a valid title, but apparently does not have the original chassis.

So the car in Europe is an illegitimate air car and Hasselrig will eventually have an legitimate air car? And who knows where the original chassis is, but it cannot be used to create a real CSX2049 anymore?

1ntCobra 10-15-2021 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ntCobra (Post 1498157)
I guess I should get a copy of the latest registry as my older copies are out of date. ;)

So it seems that the car in Europe was created based on ownership of the original chassis at the time but not a valid title.

And Hasselrig has a valid title, but apparently does not have the original chassis.

So the car in Europe is an illegitimate air car and Hasselrig will eventually have an legitimate air car? And who knows where the original chassis is, but it cannot be used to create a real CSX2049 anymore?
And then I am forgetting that Michael has frame pieces that with no serial numbers on them from a Shelby employee. And since there are pictures of the 2/3 of the original frame of CSX2049, it seems that Michael's frame pieces are from a different car than CSX2049.

I think I asked before, but I don't think Michael replied. Does Michael know who the Shelby employee was who gave his mother the car remains? And if so is that employee still alive?

CompClassics 10-15-2021 10:45 AM
Deleted

1985 CCX 10-15-2021 11:27 AM
John

Are you really saying that "A Biden" had something to do with this? (possibly Joe himself?)
Now we are getting deep! **)
Hunter may now even own a peice of this as he seems to get around.......

Ok, kidding. True enough and I bet this is not only limited to 2049.

1ntCobra 10-15-2021 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1985 CCX (Post 1498161)
John

Are you really saying that "A Biden" had something to do with this? (possibly Joe himself?)
Now we are getting deep! **)
Hunter may now even own a peice of this as he seems to get around.......

Ok, kidding. True enough and I bet this is not only limited to 2049.
Jeff,

I have heard rumors that there is a gold fiberglass body car replicating a competition Cobra out there somewhere in New England. I don't think it has any ties to parts from the original car or any claims to the original title. ;) :JEKYLHYDE

Nedsel 10-15-2021 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY (Post 1498154)
Folks, now you see why I believe this is a concocted history of ownership as no one, at any time, has a complete ownership, pieces here, pieces there, traditional and regular ways and means to get to an end. In my opinion, several air-cars have been built with one in the Netherlands (Hart's car) being sold for millions and another one in Encinitas, CA being built and all of them without clear claims of ownership. Also, all this flim flam style of buying and selling done without the Cunningham ownership involvement, and shame on Shelby for not dealing with the Cunningham family before all this crap started.
.
While I understand your frustration, I disagree with your conclusions. I have shared ownership documents from Ann Abiden, along with a sale to Lanse Haselrig, while you have shared your thoughts that Paul Cunningham may have owned the car, absent any documentation. While you offer the thought that you still have the remains of the Cobra, you have thus far provided only photos of a junk AC Ace chassis. I look forward to more definitive proof of Cunningham's ownership.

Nedsel 10-15-2021 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz (Post 1498155)
Hi Ned, and thanks for shedding light on this very interesting saga. One question - can a car really be "reconstructed" without repairing or rebuilding any part of the original chassis? Can the title of an original Cobra be transferred to any vehicle that the legal holder of that title decides to attach it to - ie: a scratch-built Cobra (or even say - a Lotus Seven clone for that matter)?
If I understand correctly, the CA courts have determined that in this case, the fact that clear evidence was presented documenting theft of the legitimate chassis remains from the legal owner, coupled with no credible ownership claims by anyone else, allows them to reconstruct a car using parts that mimic the originals. This is by no means a universal occurrence.

CompClassics 10-15-2021 11:58 AM
Deleted

CompClassics 10-15-2021 12:05 PM
Deleted

USC_COWBOY 10-15-2021 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ntCobra (Post 1498158)
And then I am forgetting that Michael has frame pieces that with no serial numbers on them from a Shelby employee. And since there are pictures of the 2/3 of the original frame of CSX2049, it seems that Michael's frame pieces are from a different car than CSX2049.

I think I asked before, but I don't think Michael replied. Does Michael know who the Shelby employee was who gave his mother the car remains? And if so is that employee still alive?
My deceased sister was the one relating the delivery of the wreck parts, she did not know the persons name, how she knew that it was a Shelby person had to of come from my mom as she was the only other person with any contact, no one else was a part of the household.


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