Researching any info re: Paul Cunningham, Competition Cobra privateer

[Nedsel]

I would once again plead for documentation over speculation. What is currently in the Registry is documented and won't change without better facts than we already have.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

I'm trying, I contacted the actual court personnel where the case was heard and requested on-line a copy of the case, they responded "no problem" and sent me an email with my request embedded in it and they instructed me to click on their link to confirm my request. That was 10 days ago or so and nothing yet, just the sound of crickets.

I have stated before that our family was in possession of the Cobra in July of 1963, where it was before, I don't know, but there was never another person connected to the Cobra after that date except for our family. Something happened at that period of time, I contend that our family bought the Cobra at that point and owned it until we lost contact with it.

Ned is reluctant to consider the Cunningham ownership, even though it is common to just sell with a bill of sale for a race car not to ever be driven upon the public streets, or even to have a registration. The Abidin documents presented so far are also non-conclusive as to the ownership, and even what has been shown here is weird as to the type of documents, and the apparent monkeying around with them, missing watermarks, scraps of torn paper, court docs that have Al Abidin as being killed several months before Paul was killed in the car.

Step back and view the total scene, the principal characters in this merry-go-round ownership is convoluted to say the least, and along the way certain people have done illegal things, presented false misleading documentation, and to top off the sundae, the so-called cherry on top, we have a superior court that appears to be incompetent.

The official SAAC history should be reconsidered and rewritten to expose the mess, no one should be able to claim and use the Cunningham Cobra for their personal gain, SAAC owes all of us this transparency. Even though our family may never be able to assert our ownership no on else should be able to do so either.

So nobody else should be able to assert ownership of the car? Well it seems someone has asserted ownership of the car. Perhaps you don't think it is correct, ethical or logical that they have the title to the car, but according to the legal system in the state of California, they are the "legal" title holders.

And what are Ned and SAAC supposed to do about that? If Ned and SAAC were to contradict the results of the Hasselrig court case without any real evidence to back that up, don't you think that Hasselrig and Wesselink are going to sue Ned and SAAC? I would think so. Ned and SAAC would probably prefer that someone else, like yourself provides some real evidence to back up your claim. If someone goes to court over this, it would most likely have to be you. Unless you find some real evidence or win a court battle against Hasselrig and Wesselink, I don't see Ned or SAAC wanting to risk being sued.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

If someone goes to court over this, it would most likely have to be you. Unless you find some real evidence or win a court battle against Hasselrig and Wesselink, I don't see Ned or SAAC wanting to risk being sued.

I really am having trouble trying to figure what the agenda is here. Cowboy, take the money that you would spend on lawyers and build your replica. You'll get a replica finished decades sooner than you'll even come close to getting this through the courts especially since a major stake holder is in another country. You'll get nowhere and the only ones that will come out ahead are the lawyers (if you can find anyone to take the case).

Let it go.

I'll reiterate why your case is as much air as the car:

Of all the people that show up in the ownership chain and lay claim to parts of it, the only one conspicuously absent is anyone named Cunningham. How are you going to get a lawyer to even consider taking the case? First thing any lawyer is going to do is read this topic (actually, a clerk or paralegal will read it), which conspicuously, lacks any documented linkage to anyone named Cunningham. You haven't even convinced anyone here. Lots of hope for the underdog, but that's all.

I'm sure this was all a conspiracy hatched 60 years ago. Yeah, that pile of junk that wasn't worth probably $50 then is going to be worth millions some day so let's fabricate a history to exclude the real owner.

Build your tribute. You'll be much money and time ahead. It might even be done while you can still enjoy it.

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

I really am having trouble trying to figure what the agenda is here. Cowboy, take the money that you would spend on lawyers and build your replica. You'll get a replica finished decades sooner than you'll even come close to getting this through the courts especially since a major stake holder is in another country. You'll get nowhere and the only ones that will come out ahead are the lawyers (if you can find anyone to take the case).

Let it go.

I'll reiterate why your case is as much air as the car:

Of all the people that show up in the ownership chain and lay claim to parts of it, the only one conspicuously absent is anyone named Cunningham.

I'm sure this was all a conspiracy hatched 60 years ago. Yeah, that pile of junk that wasn't worth probably $50 then is going to be worth millions some day so let's fabricate a history to exclude the real owner.

Build your tribute. You'll be much money and time ahead. It might even be done while you can still enjoy it.

The answer on my side is simple, I am to old to take on a build, I am retired and living on my retirement income, I don't have the money to bring a lawsuit, I checked with Bruce and the build by him is way more than I have in my savings.

The bottom line is that these people that lay claim to our family cobra are using my dad's history and car to build air-cars to sell for millions, and quite frankly that burns my ass. One of the air-cars has been debunked and in my opinion the other one should meet the same fate.

Just an old fart's opinion.

[sunman]

You can see Pauls back at the start/finish line 1:55-2:00 and racing other Cobras after 10:00 in the 10-13-1963 GP/GT video. He entered another #37 car for the GP owned by Chieftain Pontiac but did not race it. According to SCCA he entered about 50 races mostly as owner, about 7 or 8 were his Cobra, the handful not his were Chieftains.
He hung out with the people in the video and if the online Calif SCCA records are accurate you are calling Paul a liar and a poser based on his entry’s.
The world changed a week after his accident, imagine what the family went through.
He said it was his, it was his.

[CompClassics]

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[peterpjb]

time for a little summary so far:



the original remindings of 2049 are in David Harts car, at least the frame


there are no relevant original parts in the Hasselrig/Wesselink build


the court document that led to the title ownership of Hasselrig/Wesselink is full of false facts and contradictions


SAAC doesn’t want to be sued


Michael is the only person here that is a witness of time, place and the case

[sunman]

Witness? California SCCA entry form determines who gets winnings and absolves track from liabilities.
There’s one for every race and with the people involved probably are accurate.
That would be a great friend to let you say it’s your Cobra and keep winnings too

[Alfa02]

Hey guys since this picture shows Allen (Grant) racing with him, has anyone contacted Allen? I'm sure he knows nothing about ownership but may have some info.? He still has a few (cells) up there and may have something to add. We spoke at Thanksgiving and as usual went off topic and I forgot to ask him about the #37 Cobra. I will call him before
our Christmas call and ask this time I know you (Jim? @ CompClassic) and Allen are good friends, have you two spoke about this car? Cheers TommyRot.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

So nobody else should be able to assert ownership of the car? Well it seems someone has asserted ownership of the car. Perhaps you don't think it is correct, ethical or logical that they have the title to the car, but according to the legal system in the state of California, they are the "legal" title holders.

And what are Ned and SAAC supposed to do about that? If Ned and SAAC were to contradict the results of the Hasselrig court case without any real evidence to back that up, don't you think that Hasselrig and Wesselink are going to sue Ned and SAAC? I would think so. Ned and SAAC would probably prefer that someone else, like yourself provides some real evidence to back up your claim. If someone goes to court over this, it would most likely have to be you. Unless you find some real evidence or win a court battle against Hasselrig and Wesselink, I don't see Ned or SAAC wanting to risk being sued.

Thinking about it a bit more. Most likely, Michael, Ned and SAAC would all be sued if Ned even put a note in the registry that the Cunningham family believes that Paul purchased the car from Ann but there is no paperwork to back that up.

Hasselrig and Wesselink spent money to win their earlier court case, what makes you think they would not be willing to spend more money to avoid any doubt on their title to the car?

Perhaps Michael is thinking he is in poor health and may pass away before getting sued. I don't know if that will work; maybe Michael's heirs can be sued in that case.

Anyway there is the court in the state of California that says that Hasselrig and Wesselink are the legal title owners.

However, here on clubcobra, we have the court of clubcobra member opinions. Here we can speculate, theorize and try to poke holes in the court documents for our own entertainment purposes. And hopefully we are safe from being sued by Hasselrig and Wesselink.

[1985 CCX]

Cowboy,
Air cars for millions? Hmmmm

The car overseas was sold for what would be good replica/tribute $ today. (No net gain or loss)
The current car in CA, worth good-high replica money as its an air-car/tribute, however not for sale as I know it.

Not seeing your point? Did I miss the series of your family pictures with your claimed family car in the garage at home, driveway and driving you to school, its sounding a bit like Liz Warren acting like an American Indian. Seems like this has been eating you up for years, it would be nice to learn more about your father and his race days versus argue over ownership to what is long gone. My dad drove a 1970 VW bug, red as I remember it, does not mean he owned it. Heck, as a kid one remembers things a little different and often times remembers through ones own lense. Maybe that Beetle was orange???

An alloy bodied top notch replica/tribute may fetch >$200,000 today however its not millions.
There is nothing to be gained by either 2049 car or a title holder at this time, both air-cars or some would say great replicas/tributes.
Without some sort of evidence to change the current story, its reality.
Am I missing something?

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by CompClassics

Why would Hasselrig have Al Abidin dying in the crash of 2049 at the Riverside crash in 1963? When in fact it was Paul Cunningham that died in the crash of 2049 a couple of months later at Willow Springs? Now we know Hasselrig promised to repair his car in 1967. As Ned had pointed out the photos dated March of 1967 was supposed to be when Hasselrig took possession of 2049 but in fact 2049 was being dropped off for repairs per the promissory note agreement. But then Al Abindin was supposedly dead already, but in fact Al Abidin did not die until 2014.

All the paper work seems to indicate that Ann was the original owner, not Al. And all of the notes to purchase the wreck were between Ann and Hasselrig. So Ann seems like the person to bring as a witness regardless of whether Al was alive or not at the time.

It could be just a misunderstanding on Hasselrig's part about who died in the crash and what race it happened at.

It seems irrelevant what Al has to do with this. His mother was the original owner of the car and his mother sold the car to Hasselrig. So if you want to bring someone to court I would say bring Ann. She would be the one to verify or contradict the legitimacy of the paperwork, not her son. Ann would have been the one to go to the DMV with Hasselrig about the title.

Now back to wild speculation on my part (strictly for our entertainment purposes):
As I speculated earlier, what if Ann had sold the car to Paul around July or August of 1963 and given the paper title to Paul, but for whatever reason, Paul never got around to sending the title into the California DMV with his and Ann's signatures. As far as California is concerned Ann is still the legal title holder.

Plus if SAI asks the DMV who the title holder is, they will be told Ann in that case. And if Ann paid off the bank in August 1963, from the proceeds of the sale, guess what, the bank comes back and tells SAI that there is no bank lien on the car, Ann apparently owns it outright. In that case, SAI knows they can proceed with the mechanics lien against the person on record of owning the car outright, Ann Abidin (not Ann and the bank).

So now the weird part: why do Ann and Al go and pick up the car from SAI when notified that SAI is getting the mechanics lien? If I was Ann, I think I would just let it go to the mechanics lien and not worry about it. Unless ... she is worried that the Cunningham family is going to eventually come back after a while with the paper copy of the title that she signed over to Paul. And then the Cunningham family will be upset that Ann let the wreck go to the junk yard when after all maybe Paul's widow, brother, step son or daughter might want the wreck?

So maybe 3 years pass and Ann is tired of waiting for someone from the Cunningham family to show up with the paper title to collect the car from her. And there is some guy named Hasselrig who saw the wrecked Cobra under a tarp in Ann's backyard when he stopped by to do an autobody estimate on the damaged Abidin family Edsel stationwagon in the driveway. Maybe at that point Hasselrig convinces Ann to get a duplicate title from the state and sell him the car for $100 down and $400 on a promisory note that includes the condition to quickly fix the Edsel stationwagon. Luckily Ann's sister is a Notary public and can help with the paperwork.

Now given this situation, where Ann knows that she sold the car to Paul in 1963 and then later sold the car again to Hasselrig in 1967, do you think Ann would want to show up in court to testify about selling the car to Hasselrig under oath?

OR there is another possibility. Ann did not sell the car to Paul. She collected the wreck from SAI when notified of the potential mechanics lien. She was the first owner and sold it to Hasselrig in 1967 and Hasselrig was the second owner.

[sunman]

I’ve filed mechanics liens and obtained title to a dozen cars the first in 1971.
In a state as loose as Oklahoma (Title 42) you are required to submit a hard copy work order signed by the owner on record stating work to be preformed and cost estimate. You sign a notarized statement that all paperwork is true.
SAI can do whatever they want with abandoned cars but getting a title is a process with work orders, ads in legal section of news paper, certified letter to owner and an auction to recover bill due.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

One of the air-cars has been debunked and in my opinion the other one should meet the same fate.

Just an old fart's opinion.

So the real motivation comes out. If I can't have it then nobody else can either.

I actually feel sorry for you.

NP Complete will be solved before your name is on 2049.

[sunman]

Nobody cares about your feelings Tony.
Paul lives forever on YouTube as an owner of 2049
Google it up
He’s in a movie with Jane Mansfield, Jill St. John, Steve McQueen racing Dave Allen and Shelby Cobras with all the top drivers too.
What a way to go

[CompClassics]

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[CompClassics]

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[sunman]

What is Richard Wesselinks story about where he got the car?
He was on AC Owners 2011 looking for parts. “rwesselink”
Your backstory is kinda something we expect on forums.
How about somebody with a real AC contact him. He listed all his info.
I suggest the AC chassis be posted on the AC Owners forum “What AC Is This?” and start a conversation

[CompClassics]

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[CompClassics]

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