New member question re: engine performance

[vanoochka]

Hi,

I recently purchased a used Superformance Mark III with a 351 W Crate Engine, 380 HP and 9,400 miles. I am thrilled with my Cobra, but after driving it for a month now, I've decided I would like to get a little more "ooomph". After doing some research, think a 408/480hp (or so) would do the trick for me.

I am not mechanically knowledgeable at all, have a lot of questions about this, and so am asking for advice.

Should I try sell my current engine and buy a new crate 408? If so, can anyone recommend a seller who is reasonable with a good reputation? To my ignorant eyes, the prices seem to be all over the map for what appear to be comparable engines.

or

Should I have a local performance shop install a stroker kit and upgrade my current 351 W? If so, what are the best kits? What is a reasonable price to complete this project? Does anyone know anyone you would recommend in Northern California? This option seems the lesser expense, but does it open up any problems that a new crate engine would not?

The car will be used as a weekend fun car. I won't be driving it hard, but will occasionally want to open it up (and so the desire for a stronger engine).

Thanks in advance for your help,

van

[JCoop]

The 351 Windsor is a great motor. I had it in my previous small block SPF. I was going to go for a set of custom heads and a cam for it for the same reasons as you...until a big block (460) presented itself to me. I was blinded by the raw torque and power so I bought it and sold the SB. With 550 ft/lbs of torque, I'm sorta happy but if I were to build another, I'd put a stroked 351W in it. I think you can get around 480 hp and still be driveable around town. The extra 200 lbs or so of the BB is cumbersome when it comes to spirited driving in the twisties. I can imagine what a big difference it would be at the track. I loved thrashing the SB around in the deserted back roads. I get a little tentative when I do it with the BB.

Best thing is to have one of both?

[Dangerous Doug]

Van,
The local machine shop can be very expensive, depending on how much work you want them to do. I researched this for my 289FIA, for I thought I could save some money by getting my own block and having it built up. Not so. The local guy (whom I think smelled money based upon my project) gave me a quote for $7600 for a non-stroker 302 long block assembly with no warranty and no guarantee on HP output! Adding in all the necessary parts to make this offering equivalent to the 342R I could but from Roush Performance, the local guy was MORE expensive (by about $1000) than a better, nastier engine from Roush!

By all means, get a crate engine. Look at Roush (favorite for SPF owners, by the way) or Keith Craft. You can get a nice engine with a guarantee, and you'll know what you're getting. I have a Excel worksheet comparison that I'm working on for 302 based stroker engines. PM me if you'd like to see it.

Keep your engine in your car until you have money in-hand from a buyer. It's worth more when people can hear it run and actively test it.

My $0.02.

DD

[Dwight]

Keith Craft 351w/408 and he will sent you the dyno sheet with the motor.


Call Keith and tell him what you want to do with your Cobra motor, race, street/ strip?????He will tell you how much hp and what it will cost.

Dwight

[bobcowan]

First off, what are you after? Torque or HP? The advantage of a 408 over other strokers is that the stoke is a little bit less, and can rev a little higher. On the track that comes in handy. On the street it doesn't matter, you won't be pushing it to 6,500 on a regular basis.

OTOH, a little more stroke will produce a little torque down low, where most street cars need it. Also, on the street displacement is king.

With those two things in mind, I would consider these two alternatives:

1. 427W: more stroke, more torque, less rpm's, less hp. Can easily be done with a stock block and off the shelf parts. On the street it will last forever.
Besides, there's something magical about a 427 under the hood.

Check with a company called Performance Automotive Warehouse (PAW) for ready to assemble engines and kits.

If you really want a crate motor, call Gordon Levy or Mike Forte. They'll build you exactly what you want for about the same price as an off the shelf crate motor.


2. A blower. Easy to install, cheaper than a new stroker. If you're handy with tools, you can install it yourself in a week end, then take it to a tuner for some dyno time. Adds some "wow facter" , too.

[vanoochka]

Thanks for the good advice, all. It's really helpful.

If I can find a reasonably priced, reliable shop to do the work here in San Jose, I'm going to go with the recommendation to stroke the motor up to a 427. By the way, the new PAW kit now only goes up to 420. Something about a new crank shaft. Since Bob hooked me on his "something special about a 427..." comment, it seems like I should go for those final 7 ci's or bust.

Any other recommendations on a quality kit to get me there? I found this one by searching the net. http://stage3motorsports.com/product...=&utm_campaign=

Thanks again.

Van

[bobcowan]

There seem to be two big manufacturers of Ford stroker kits - Eagle and Coast High Performance.

www.eaglerods.com
www.coasthigh.com

I wasn't aware that Rousch was selling just the roatating assembly. I wonder if it's really an Eagle kit? Anyway, I would look at both those companies.

For a street stormer, I wouldn't spend the money on forged parts. Cast crasnk, stock rods, and Hypereutectic pistons can take a lot of street abuse, and even some track abuse. Can't withstand a blower for long, though.

Another resource is www.fordstrokers.com . They sell Coast High kits. But from their web site you can get a good idea of price.

Also, talk with your local machine shop before buying any parts. Sometimes they can get good deals from wholesalers. And you want a machine shop comfortable with the work.

[BDR561]

I would highly recommend that you pay the extra few $$ and get the forged internals, if on a budget get at least forged pistons. Seen too many cast/hyperreutectic pistons go BOOM.

[Dwight]

Do Not, and I repeat DO NOT use a shop that builds just Chevy. Use a shop that builds Ford engine all the time. One that has build the 427 Windsor that you want. To many problems from shops that are not familiar with the Ford motor.

Dwight

[Rickd]

Scat is another manufacturer of stroker kits, very good quality. For street use and on a budget, a cast steel crank is OK but I would definitely get forged pistons. Talk to Keith Craft about what you want to do. He will sell you the stroker kit and parts, and he might be able to recommend someone in California to do the rebuild if you want to rework your current motor. They know their stuff and also a lot of people in the business.

[snakebitekit]

Check out www.tandlengines.com, many different styles from 302, strokers up to 427.

[D-CEL]

Van,
If your only looking for 100hp you have options.
1) a good ported Alum head, cam and intake/carb swap
2) A little squirt of nitrous
3) 5-7 lbs of boost

But...as it has been said earlier, torque rules and big blocks are king. I often hear the "small blocks handle better" mantra being chanted. The difference on an alum headed BB VS SB is 120-150lbs Truth is, on street car you won’t feel the weight.
However, you will feel the torque at every stoplight, freeway entrance or any time you let the clutch out and press the loud pedal. A 500ftlb/500hp BB doesn’t require any trickery and will make that power on cheap gas.
Basically, Big blocks are BETTER ( )and all of the small blocks guys are just jealous.


D-cel