Bitten in SE PA

[kopride]

Greetings,

I have lusted after these cars for years and am getting ready to make the plunge. I keep bouncing between dropping 40-45k for a very nice well settled ERA (or comparable) used car to picking up one of these great used FFR bargains in the mid (or low) 20s. I am leaning towards picking up a low cost bargain from a reputable local seller and seeing whether actually owning a crude brutal open roadster meets my expectations, particularly since there seems to be a good inventory of local cars out there in that price range.

My prior performance thrill seeking has been focused on off road motorcycling. However, trail access issues have made this a difficult passion to indulge regularly around here and my KTM gathers more dust in the garage, than on the road. (Even when I can ride, it spends more time in the back of my pick up coming and going, than on the trails.) As that bike sits, I get more and more tempted to buy a road motorcycle, which would be breaking a sacred pre-marital vow. (I am lucky that this vow is much harder to keep than the other vows.) Hence, what is the only 4 wheeled vehicle that provides even close to the experience of riding a high performance motorcycle?

I do have and have had high performance cars in the past, but they have all been sedans (AMG Mercedes, BMWs, etc) so they are really not comparable. If I do pick up a low end bargain, I am hoping that it is not so low end that it discourages me from ever owning another. In a perfect world, I would play with a bargain this summer, love it and then sell it for a minor loss to buy a more high end used one (or have one built to specs)-- after I am sure that this is not a fleeting passion. In a less than perfect world, a bargain would be a relatively painless mistake that I can sell off to someone else who wants to get their feet wet before jumping in whole hog. Given this economy, I would rather not be sitting with over 40k in a car I can't sell.

Any collective wisdom/advice is helpful.

[xracerbob]

Kopride-

Welcome. Having had both an FFR and now the ERA, I can say these are two very different cars. Both have strong points and I encourage you to study and check them out in person. Your timing is great. There is a nearly brand new ERA FIA car available near you and there is another active forum participant in Pottstown that has both a FFR for sale and an ERA so you could do a side by side comparison.

Good luck!

[marcalan]

If you are interested in seeing the FIA, no pressure to buy, just look and ask questions about the car, the build or ERA, PM me.

[RMHINC]

Kopride , check out Vintage Motorsports . I just got back from a show in Atlantic City and they had some amazing Backdraft Cobra's . They had an all black Heritage edition and an all blue car. The blue one was only 43 K Here is a link to the site http://www.vintage-motorsports.com/showroom/
We have a lot in common in terms of cars & I used to dirt bike race as a kid. Check it out & your going to love a Cobra !

Rick




BDR GT 40
65 Corvette Coupe
AMG SL 55
BDR Cobra
67 GT 500 R

[mrmustang]

See, I knew Marc would step up to the plate to show you his car...Same with me........Responded to your PM, it's your money, do not let anyone else "steer" you.....I'll repost my FAQ submission from way back in the early days of this site. Read it, any questions, feel free to ask away as there are plenty of very knowledgeable people on this forum.


"How to buy a used Cobra:

Editors Note:
Ok, the first thing you have to ask yourself is "how much money am I willing to spend for a used Cobra", and what my usage is going to be. Now, by usage, I mean a either a daily driver, weekend cruiser, show car/trailer queen, 1/4 mile drag racer, road racer, or any combination of the above. Once you have set your budget and have a pretty good idea of what you want to initially spend, your next goal is to find the right car for you. Whether your spending $22,000, or $150,000 should not matter at this point, as I've personally seen beautiful, well built cars at $22,000, and some truly horrible cars with over $100,000 in to the build.


Your qualifications:
Know your strengths and weaknesses when shopping for a used Cobra, if you know bodywork, and not the mechanicals, take along someone who has a greater mechanical ability than yourself. Vice versa if your strengths are in the mechanical end of things, and not the cosmetics. Two sets (or more) of eyes are always better than one.

If your going to see a cobra in person:

What to look for:
Fit: How does the body sit on the chassis, do the doors, hood, trunk all line up?

Finish: How is the paint, are there runs, drips, sags. Does the paint have a nice shine to it, or does it need to be buffed out or stripped and repainted?

Interior condition: Does the interior show a lot of aging, do the seats need to be recovered.

Mechanical: Are there any leaks or drips under the car? What about the overall appearance, does the car look like it was well taken care of, or does it look like it was ridden hard and abused.

Engine: Again, any leaks or fluid drips, how does it sound (this can be tough on a car such as the Cobra). Check the engine warm, cold, at partial throttle and at idle. Make sure to check the temperature gauge once the car is warmed up and at idle. Also check to make sure the thermostatically controlled fan (if so equipped) kicks in when it is supposed to.

Transmission: Take the car out for a road test if possible (don't expect to let the seller to allow you to drive it), does the clutch work properly, does the transmission shift smoothly through the gears. Check for leaks here as well.

Rear End: Does the rear end clunk, leak fluids (check behind rear rims for signs of fluid, along with the front and rear of the differential housing)

Suspension: Check the bushings, do they look cracked and worn out, if so, factor in replacements to your costs. What about the shocks (coil overs or ???), if you ask the seller to push down on each corner, watch the rebound, if they bounce forever, then expect to replace them. If the car is equipped with coil over shocks, set the car on an even surface and see if the car sits level or not. if so, then the shocks do not have to be adjusted, if not, then expect a few hours getting things right.

Brakes: If you place your hand on the front disks (do this before the car has been driven), can you feel any grooves in the disk itself? Does the brake pedal feel firm when your sitting in the car, what about on the test drive, ask the seller to do at least one hard braking maneuver so that you can tell whether the brakes are adjusted correctly for the car. Some cars will have a combination of disks and drums, others will have four wheel disk brakes. If set up correctly, a disk/drum set up will work for all but the most extreme usage (IE: heavy road racing, endurance racing, etc).

Wheels: Are the wheels balanced, bolted on, or held on with knock off's? Bolt on wheels are a matter of personal preference, if you like what is on the car, great, if not, factor in a replacement some time down the road. Knock off's should be checked to make sure they are tight, if the knock offs and safety wired on the car, that shows a level of attention worthy of a good owner/seller....

Tires: Are the sidewalls cracked, are the DOT approved, radials or biased ply? What about the sizing, do the fronts both match? What about the rears?

Electrical system: Do all of the lights function, hi beams, lo beams, turn signals, brake lights, horn, etc? What about all of the gauges, do they read correctly?

If your buying a Cobra sight unseen:

Use the above as a reference guide as to what questions need to be asked. If the owner is forthcoming with detailed answers, then you can feel a little more comfortable in dealing with them. if the answers are a little more ambiguous and vague, then perhaps the owners is trying to hide something, or does not really have any mechanical ability or qualifications to answer the questions above..If this is the case, and your still interested in the car, pay to have the car professionally looked at by a qualified inspection service.

In closing, most of the above is all based on common sense. Don't let your emotions get involved in the decision whether to purchase one car or another. Also don't let other so called "experts" sway you to this brand or that, after all, it's your money, not theirs that your planning to spend..Finally, if you need assistance, or don't understand something fully, feel free to ask questions.


Hope this was educational.


Bill S.

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

When all is said and done, you get what you pay for. The closest thing between an FFR and ERA is the name Cobra. Outside of that they are as different as night and day. Do yourself a favor and check out both cars (and others) in person. This economy would allow you to purchase Cobras fifty cents on the dollar. You can actually get more bang for your buck with a high quality car. Good luck with your search.

[kopride]

Thanks for all your feedback. Yes, it is a tricky decision for me. There are a lot of great deals on the high end as well. And, in this economy, I could pick up a car that would sell for 20 or 30k more if people were more concerned with buying roadsters than not getting laid off. I am very lucky to be in a business that has been relatively unscathed by this downturn. (On the other hand, I was not exactly raking it in or benefitting from the boom, slow and steady has been the business plan).

When I jumped back into motorcycling from a ten year layoff, I jumped in with an entry level bike that I quickly outgrew. But that bike (a Yamaha) was very predictible, reliable, and stable and I probably started with the right bike. My current KTM (built in Austria) is a joy when it is properly tuned, but it is by no means, a put it away wet and start it up no problems 3 mos later when you get time to ride. (The valves need frequent adjustment and the engine basically needs to be rebuilt every few hundred hours). It is a real tradeoff and I must confess that there are many times that I will just grab the Yamaha and go; and save the KTM for when I am riding with the big boys.

Again, there are probably paralells and differences, but important to me is the ability to start it up on a nice day and cruise around with minimal troubles. I tend to be hard on my toys and would rather play with them than polish them, tinker with them, or stand around admiring them.

[madmaxx]

If you do not like the way a car drives, regardless of how it looks you will not like it. I suggest you drive an ERA,Superformance,FF,Backdraft. Personel experience has proven the SPF (I have not driven an ERA) is a SOLID car. I have no fear of hitting bumps, railroad tracks. I see zero, nada panel rubs or rattles. I cannot say the same for the others. Make sure you get at least a 427 stroked small block or big block and 500hp or you will upgrade to it eventually.

Regardless if you buy a $100K Kirkham or a replica that is no longer in business rest assure you will be fixing it. There is alway something, visor comes loose, bushing need greased, idle needs adjusted, fan switch craps out.

[RMHINC]

Just like you are saying with the Yamaha vs. KTM, the Cobra shopping is similar. These are toys but you want reliability since your free time maybe limited like mine. I started looking at Factory Five and then quickly jumped up many notches as I noticed I would outgrow that too quickly and you are not going to ever resell a Factory Five for more than you paid. I ended up buying a Backdraft from Vintage to dip my toes in and see for certain if this was the toy for me. An opportunity came up to sell that car with a very small hit on price and I took it.

I was missing the Backdraft from the day I sold it. So I got another one. I felt the pricepoint and especially the performance of the Backdraft was right. This time I opted for a Roush engine to get the warranty and some more clout, so to speak. Most problems can happen under the hood, put more money in the engine instead of cutting corners there to get a more expensive "kit". The more expensive cars are all great and I am sure I would love those too but for a Cobra I am satisfied inside and out with Backdraft and Vintage Motorsports.

Instead of getting another more expensive Cobra I bought a BDR GT40 last summer. just my quick thoughts . Give me an email if you have any questions. Vintage is not far from you and I know they have customers all around you from meeting other owners at the shop and events.

[kopride]

I will definitely accept your collective invitations to look at these cars. BDR is on my short list, and the SPFs might be on the short list too if the economy keeps tanking and prices drop even still. Bill and Marc are very local and have actually built cars so they are resources I will turn too if they have the time to help in my search. This is a very busy time for me and I have been on trial for most of February and March looks no better. It's just a matter of clearing a day or two and looking at these cars so I can start to see the difference. There is another local company (Tristate motorsports) and they seem to have built BDRs and FFRs for a lot of local buyers. There is another ERA in No. Jersey that prompts my interest as well.

And yes, I accept the fact that these cars are not modern Vettes or Porsches that I won't ever have to touch or tweak something. Believe me, I have not had a weekend of dirtbiking yet where I wasn't fixing something. (Real fun, with a mini tool kit in the middle of the woods). But wrenching a 4 stroke single on a mass produced bike is much different than trying to figure out an engine or suspension problem in somebody's hand built car.

I do want a solid car that I can flog and have fun with. Max, I am not sure that I need 500 HP right now to have that fun, and I have seen enough people getting airlifted out of the woods because they took on too much bike or ATV too soon. So I would trade reliability, a solid chassis, neutral handling, and a well sorted suspension set up, for HP at least for now. Local servicing options are also huge. My Yamaha dealer is 15 minutes away, the local KTM dealer is 50 minutes, which makes a difference in a leisure activity. When you start talking hours to get a car servicved properly, that becomes important.

[mrmustang]

As I said before in a PM, you should buy USrowboys BRG 427SC ERA. Even at his asking price, it is a bargain.

http://www.clubcobra.com/classifieds...t=1641&cat=all

Forget about mine, unless you want a small block, buy his, you cannot go wrong.




Bill S.

[Cashburn]

Tri-State is worth a search if you know what I mean... they are not an active BDR dealer at this stage. Since you are in PA and the Carlisle event is in May, perhaps then you can see them all so to speak.

Don't discount what Max has offered, he knows from experience about moving up, etc.

With some exceptions, all of these cars are extremely basic. And with a small block there are plenty of little (and big) shops that can handle any tweaks easily. Just ask around and other owners will steer you in the right direction. There are a lot of Cobras in PA.

[marcalan]

Jay said what I was going to say. Do your research now, and then, in May go to Carlisle and check out all the different brands. It will give you a better understanding of the differences. I went before I placed my order, I had already narrowed it down to two different brands and after talking at length with both at Carlisle I chose what worked best for me.

M-A

[kopride]

If there is any trend from all this feedback it is "Friends don't let friends buy a cheap FFR." Thanks for all your feedback, As I said, work is about to hit hard so waiting until May and checking them out at the Carslisle show might be fine. I am interested in that NJ ERA so I might have to move soon, but we'll see. It is nice to know that there are folks that know this car and feel it is a strong one. I have always felt it is better to buy convertibles (and motorcycles) while the weather stinks, but it might be nice to really have a good look at all of them in one place. Thanks for the PMs as well

I can't believe how hard this obsession has hit. I think my law partners are about at the point where they are going to buy it for me, just so I get back to work and stop checking this stuff out. They may figure they are losing more money from me searching the web at work, rather than billing clients. Also on the upside, I have gotten my wife to agree that she can do no more home renovations until I buy my car. If I put off this puchase for another 20 years, the money saved on stopping her from any new "remodeling" jobs alone might be worthwhile. Thanks again.

[JWilly]

Not sure why FFR is getting so little love. I do not own an FFR but I have seen and have ridden in some well built, very solid, FFR’s. I believe a lot of the quality of these cars will come as much from the builder as the company that produces the kit. Also, ERA makes an excellent kit but it appears to me one of the big selling points of the ERA is that it is a visual clone of the original Cobra’s. If you are a purist, I can see an ERA in your future. But if you can live with the pedals hanging down rather than sticking up and other minor visual differences from the original; there are tons of very nice cars from different companies out there, very reasonably priced. All ya gotta do is look. BTW, looking is a lot of fun too!

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by kopride

If there is any trend from all this feedback it is "Friends don't let friends buy a cheap FFR."

It's fun to make fun of FFRs. But seriously, when set up properly they can be fierce competitors on the track -- no doubt about it. The problem is that, once you're used to looking at Cobras, they don't look all that much like Cobras.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by kopride

If there is any trend from all this feedback it is "Friends don't let friends buy a cheap FFR."

Come on out to the shop around 12 noon tomorrow, I'll show you a FFR that on the mechanical side is a 10+ (paint side is now being worked on ) and will give any number of replicas a run for the money. Again, come on out as it appears that you have let others jade you from what may or may not be the right choice for you.



Bill S.

PS: Ignore the sale in my sig as the body comes off this weekend and the body will be gone over before a fresh coat goes on........

[marcalan]

I'll be there to help

[kopride]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Come on out to the shop around 12 noon tomorrow, I'll show you a FFR that on the mechanical side is a 10+ (paint side is now being worked on ) and will give any number of replicas a run for the money. Again, come on out as it appears that you have let others jade you from what may or may not be the right choice for you

Bill S.

PS: Ignore the sale in my sig as the body comes off this weekend and the body will be gone over before a fresh coat goes on........

Sorry I missed this opportunity to meet you folks but great weather and a house full of kids lead to some 2 wheel adventures this weekend. Nobody has jaded me on any option. The FFR forum is also quite active and those folks seem like they have great things to say about their cars. Because of that dedicated forum, I think FFR folks are probably underrepresented in this forum; hence, less folks standing up for their car here. There is another local BDR that I want to take a look at, and then the Jersey ERA is on my short list of cars I am interested in. I was not looking at 289 FIA cars, but Marcs looks like one to see as well. Irrespective of brands, most of you folks seem to love your cars and are pretty proud of what you own.

I would like to see your car. And, coincidentially, my daughter hammered my 550i door by throwing open my wife's door in a tight garage, and the paint on the hood appears to be bubbling up for some strange reason, so I have a reason to visit your shop for other reasons. If I can shake loose tommorow from the grind, I will try and swing by your shop.

[Cashburn]

How did the snake bite turnout?