Hurricane build HM-1023

[Hoodabest]

So, earlier this year, I ended up buying a round tube chassis only. That chassis turned out to be a Midstates chassis from before the Shell Valley buyout. While perusing the for sale section here for parts, I saw that someone was selling a ccx kit, still in the crate. Unfortunately it was sold. But, most fortunately, forum member LMH was parting with hurricane HM-1023 to focus on another project. A deal was made, and off to Arizona I was, 4-1/2 days and 3680 miles later, I had the car in its new home. Larry's workmanship on the car is outstanding. He and his brother are both serious cobra heads and overall great guys to deal with. I'll be posting pics as soon as I have time, and share my progress at this project unfolds.

[1795]

Good luck with the project. If it was in Larry's hands previously, what has been done will have been done right.

Jim

[LMH]

I knew my Hurricane was sold to right person when I looked at the distance it took to get the car home! Dedication!
Did you make it home w/o incident?
Larry

[FUNFER2]

A friend an I had a tour of Hurricane years ago, and was impressed.

[bwcobra15]

Welcome to the Hurricane family! Be sure to also register and check in at Hurricane Motorsports - Index


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[Hoodabest]

Originally Posted by LMH

I knew my Hurricane was sold to right person when I looked at the distance it took to get the car home! Dedication!
Did you make it home w/o incident?
Larry

One helluva snowstorm only 150 miles from home, somehow it didn't get into the boxes, only lasted 40 miles. Otherwise good trip.

[MFE III]

Welcome to the Hurricane Club. I echo what was said about Larry's cobra knowledge and fabrication skills.
Please post your progress!
Matt

[LMH]

Thanks for the pat on the back guys but I’m no master fabricator! Just your average slob with a few tools! On my (well, not mine anymore!) Hurricane, I made a few changes to make it more accurate and showed those changes to the original owners. Some made it to production on later cars, some didn’t. It was originally a live axle but was switched to IRS very early once production of the IRS unit was ready, following Deans original car.
One I had planned but never got to was the trunk. It is possible though, to make an original SC style trunk out of aluminum. I just didn’t get to actually building it. Sure would be cool to see a Hurricane with one though!
Larry

[moore_rb]

I always thought the coolest thing about Larry's car was that he was building it on his patio...

That's almost as cool as building it in your kitchen.

[Hoodabest]

Originally Posted by moore_rb

I always thought the coolest thing about Larry's car was that he was building it on his patio...

That's almost as cool as building it in your kitchen.

I remember an episode of the Andy Griffith Show where Gomer was watching the sheriff's office and moved a jeep in to work on it, so as not to disappoint his customer. Kind of dedication Larry would have

[Hoodabest]

I got the roof done on my garage, not exactly what I had planned, but the city got involved and turned a simple deal into a global project. Really harshing my gig as far as forward progress. As it stands, I'm looking at my options for the engine build. I have a 351w std bore block needing machining/prep, plus all the goodies minus rotating assembly (have heads, 2 x 4 intake, etc ) or, I can go down the stroked FE route (have block, forged crank, crossbolt caps, etc ) but I'm torn. Both options have up/downs. Anyone out there had or driven both in a s/c type platform? I see the windsor option as less xpense, lighter, POSSIBLY more reliable. The FE? Well, more (lots) money, heavier (handling?), better sounding, like, in my dna better sounding, more value of the finished car, and lastly, not having to explain to the ignorant but inevitable douchebag my rationale behind a small block. Please keep in mind that my 390 FE block will be crossbolted, and thus indistinguishable to all but the most astute douchebag's scrutiny. That rant over, either option would end up with an almost identical power curve. I've been building vintage Harley engines for 25 years, so I kind of get it, folks have different sensibilities. Just hoping for some input from you fine folks.

[LMH]

Maybe some of the other Hurricane guys can advise on installing an FE. I don’t know but a couple things like motor mounts on the frame and headers that fit the side pipes may play a role. I’m not sure though. I’m sure it could be done even if those do factor in though.
Larry

[olddog]

First the balance on these cars, front to back is excellent, even with an all iron FE in them. For all out competition sure a small block might handle just a tab better. If that was the only goal, an all aluminum 5.0 block with 4.155 bore and 3.4 stroke would be best..... but that is bench racing, sitting on a bar stool, talk. For the average hobby guy this is a non issue. It only clouds the mind. Forget about this.

A 351 W stroker is a great reliable engine that will make more than enough power to get you killed. It will work just fine, but it is not an FE. I will never be an FE and it will never be the engine family that came in a 427 Cobra. That's facts.

A 390 is not the exact correct engine, but it is an FE, which is the correct engine family. Since you feel that some guy who is interested in your car with a lot of questions and opinions is a "douchebag," obviously it will bother you if you do not put an FE in and said "douchebag" mentions it would have been perfect if only it had an FE. So admit it to yourself, other people's opinions matter to you, even a "douchebag's" opinion. Yep you will be kicking yourself every time, if you go with the Windsor. I'm only analyzing you based on your self admitted rant.

So now that we have established that you should go with the FE, what about reliability. If I were to go on what I have read on this site, yes FE engines tend to have more things go wrong. That does not mean every FE engine has problems. If you think about it, Ford made millions of these engine on assembly lines for decades, and they were assembled by hung over, union folks with axes to grind. Yet this was a very reliable engine from the factory.

Now this will pi$$ off some, but the FE is a terrible design, from a put it together point of view. There are a bunch of little things that you just have to know to assemble this engine properly. People who work on an assembly line who only have to do a few items properly, get real good at it. A shop who builds a few a year or an individual who is only going to build one, has to know everything about the entire build and remember it all. The point is, millions of FE engines were extremely reliable, when assembled properly, but it is harder to do, the smaller the operation. That not to say a small operation cannot do it. They just have to be better at it.

Today there are fewer and fewer builders that are good at assembling them, and a boat load of the parts today are made by someone other than Ford. Yes there are more risks, but I believe if done right you can build a better FE than Ford did. It boils down to an attention to detail thing. A great FE is possible, and it is done all the time.

There is one exception. The rear main seal was designed for a rope seal and Ford blocks are a crap shoot with today's seals. Tolerances were sloppy, because with rope seals, it didn't matter, and they drip by design. So, the likelihood that it will mark its territory on the garage floor is high.

So sell all the Windsor parts to finance the FE, and your Cobra will be worth more money and you will be happier.

[Hoodabest]

I truly do value questions and opinions on anything I create,the gaining and sharing of experience with people is what it's all about. It's just that some people have to find fault in others efforts, not to be part of or improve the experience, but just to be crummy. If it was solely for the approval of others, I'd leave the unfinished car on my trailer and tow it around the country. The thumbs-up py passing cars and conversations started at EVERY gas stop were a pleasant surprise. So back to engine talk. I had failed to take into account the little things that only an experienced FE builder would know, thank you for pointing that out. Helps explain why a built FE is almost always more money than a comparably built windsor. At Larry's, I talked to a veteran ffr owner and current z06 corvette racer who said that a 331 stroker with 350-400 hp was the most fun possible in a 90 inch wb car. His opinion has value to me. Probably be about mid January before I get started, keep the info coming, thanks.

[xb-60]

I like olddog's reasoning.

I wouldn't put an FE in my 289FIA
Put your FE in the 427 Go on! You know you want to!

Cheers,
Glen

[olddog]

I have had my Cobra for 10 years, and I have not run into the obnoxious loud mouthed jerks putting my car down that many around hear complain about. Have I seen a bit of disappointment in the eyes of someone when they learned it has a 347 in it? Sure, but they were never rude about it. If that bothers people, they should go with an FE. Even if it doesn't bother you one bit, me for instance, having an FE would be great. There are a lot of reasons to like an FE. If I had one, you bet ya I would use it.

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by Hoodabest

I'm torn. Both options have up/downs. Anyone out there had or driven both in a s/c type platform? I see the windsor option as less xpense, lighter, POSSIBLY more reliable. The FE? Well, more (lots) money, heavier (handling?), better sounding, like, in my dna better sounding, more value of the finished car

You've summarized all the keys points yourself right there. The Windsor will be an easier/less expensive platform to extract more HP from, unless/until you decide to go up over 420 cubes, while the FE "looks" more correct in a 427 style replica, and will allow for more "crazy" if you want to go up into the expensive mega-Cube area. That just about covers it...

You can put a set of FE-style valve covers on a tall deck Windsor, and cover the carb with a Turkey Pan, and who's gonna notice the difference at the monthly Cars and Coffee at that point?

If you plan to build the car with "originality" in mind, and want to show the car, drive it occasionally, and keep wrenching on it forever, build the FE. If you plan to DRIVE the car, show it occasionally, and still keep wrenching on it forever (but spending less $$ while wrenching on it), then build the Windsor.

Larry makes a good point that your chassis is already set up the Windsor- is more fabrication worth the time and effort? (again- it's your decision)

And sound? I'm not sure I follow... Put the right cam, lifters, and rockers in ANY engine, and tune the exhaust correctly, and they can sound just as raspy as you want them too. One of our local Az guys (DrDuc) has a 500+HP 427 Windsor in his car, and it sounds EVIL, and can smoke every FE around it (of similar displacement) every time he hits the go-pedal.

Originally Posted by Hoodabest

and lastly, not having to explain to the ignorant but inevitable douchebag my rationale behind a small block. Please keep in mind that my 390 FE block will be crossbolted, and thus indistinguishable to all but the most astute douchebag's scrutiny.

Just ignore the douchebags, and don't let them influence your decision. It's your car. Use your judgement.

[olddog]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to make you out to be a bad guy if some loud mouth gets under your skin. I was just pointing out that if it does get under your skin, why set yourself up to get annoyed by these types, especially if they are plentiful in your circles of travel. I have to assume you have met more than your share or you wouldn't have brought it up.

Me I have skin thicker than an elephant most of the time, and generally I feel sorry for idiots. Life is hard for them because they are always around an idiot, even when they sleep alone. Perhaps I have met my share too, but I just don't remember them, because I never pay them any attention.

I'll retire in a couple years. I might go ahead and build a new Cobra. I will most likely go with a 390 FE stroked to 440ish.

If I were to go with a Windsor, I would go with 4.125 bore aftermarket block and a 4.0 or 4.1 stroke. A Clevor with CHI heads really floats my boat. By the time you build this engine you'll have the price of a budget FE or more in it. So I'm back to the FE.

[FUNFER2]

With my latest engine build I almost went with a 460 based motor because the block and some of the FE parts are real expensive. But after much thought and research I again went with anothrr FE. If you stay with apx 500 HP or less, a 390 stroker like the 445ci can be built for around $7,000 (+/-).

I was able to buy a built 428 with 525-550 HP from a well known FE engine builder for $6,500. Deals can be found.

If the 385 series will fit under the Hurricane hood like the Surperformance, a fairly stock stock engine with 450 - 500 HP can run around $6,000. 600-700 HP for $11,000, 800 HP for $13,000.

Don't worry about people here and elswhere about the noise of Cobra's with loud exhaust, the 427's were built to be loud. If someone want's a very quiet Cobra , build a under car exhaust, if not, don't have a 427 Cobra. Buy a Cadillac with 4 mufflers and be happy.

Also, don't let a few rude members here piss you off or turn you away from this wonderful forum, there's always a few in every crowd.

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by olddog

I have skin thicker than an elephant most of the time, and generally I feel sorry for idiots. Life is hard for them because they are always around an idiot, even when they sleep alone.

I love reading your posts... Your inherent wisdom does not go unnoticed.