SPF 648 going cheap on eBay 2.5 hours left

frankym · #1 (**permalink**) 02-26-2003, 10:11 AM

Is this car not a steal on eBay for $39.9k, it's a Reed car, lots of goodies and a stroker 396 with 17 inch PSEs in Texas. I urged him to contact Reed or Olthoffs or Snakepit to see if they're interested, at that price, I think it's a no brainer, if there is any drawback at all, it's registered as a newer car, but so what, this thing is fine and too cheap for any bottom fishers and bargain hunters to pass up and still consider themselves to be in the market, hopefully this is the rock bottom for a car like this. Good luck.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...&category=6465

HIQ · #2 (**permalink**) 02-26-2003, 02:00 PM

And it did not sell! Tough market.....especially on eBay. Does Second Strike offer assistace to their members?

frankym · #3 (**permalink**) 02-27-2003, 08:32 AM

I am kind of curious as to where all these bargain hunters are? Maybe this should be another thread but I think there is an interesting topic about the Act of Selling a Cobra. I have had a bunch of old cars and yes they're typically harder to sell, there's a smaller segment of the population of buyers etc., but the cobra attracts by FAR the largest number of tire kickers I have ever seen. My last cobra was a solid daily driver, it was a shell valley with a 427 center oiler. The unassembled kit was over 20k without paint, and the motor and tranny rounded up the total list of parts to close to 30k or more. Well, to get 25k, it took so many phone calls with people that were either "ready to buy" or were so obviously just trying to make friends that I thought to myself that the next project I took on would have be one that I would not find myself growing out of for many years! I have had people call me and talk to me for 20 minutes, express sincere interest, but never make an appointment to see the car. One guy repeatedly asked me if I would drive the car to see him (less than 10 minutes away) and proceeded to bother the mechanic who was installing the new side pipes while it was on the lift, pulling and tugging at parts under the car.

So, I am shocked and amazed that when an undoubtedly really good deal comes along, all the guys that are talking low ball cash figures are nowhere to be found. This just confirms how most folks that try to negotiate over the phone before seeing and driving the car , or ask for a really good deal here on the forum are total dreamers with a genuine disregard for peoples' time. It's always a pleasure to deal with folks that are sincere, have the money, and have educated themselves about the car and the manufacturer.

While I was selling my prior cobra, I inquired about a few new projects, but only looked at a potential car to buy after telling the owner that I was awaiting a sale of my own car and didn't want to waste anyone's time, and then had the owner insist, saying come on down, we'll go for a spin. I had another guy that couldn't reach the pedals and couldn't speak english, what a farce. Maybe I am a rare guy, but I cannot see test driving a car, negotiating a price, for a transaction I could not complete, maybe you could go to a new car dealer and do that, after all, they're in the business of showcasing cars to potential buyers, but with a private sale, can't people just be honest and stop pretending to be in a position to buy somebody's car? Another guy looked at my other cobra, and kept comparing it to a car that he admidted was $60k, hello, cut the price in half and then you can make your comparison, it's like comparing a mercedes S class to a C class.

wtcobra · #4 (**permalink**) 02-27-2003, 10:01 AM

Obviously on that given day, that car was worth 30,000.00 to the person making the bid. I don't know why you think that is shocking. That is the free enterprise system at work. If you think that 39,000.00 was such a steal, step up to the plate and make yourself some money by buying it and resaleing it. If you haven't noticed the Cobra market is saturated with cars right now. Replica Cobras are not a good investment and it is going to become worse.

wt

cobra fever · #5 (**permalink**) 02-27-2003, 10:25 AM

Frankym-I understand what you're saying, but there's always the
other side to it. What about the people that are ready to buy and can afford, but get no help by a salesperson in a dealership.
Because of maybe theire race, age, or even the way they are dressed. The thing I don't understand is, why does a salesperson ask, what I drive?

casaleenie · #6 (**permalink**) 02-27-2003, 11:11 AM

frankym,

I understand exactly what you're saying.. I think the term "tire kickers" is appropriate... Anyone who has shopped a Cobra for any length of time pretty much knows where he wants to be pricewise... At $40K the Superformance seems like a pretty good buy... if that's the brand you want...If you're shopping a FFR and you take a flyer at the Superformance for 30K, Hey, stranger things have happened. Twelve months ago that car would probably have commanded 50K and been a decent buy..
WTCOBRA is correct about the down market on these cars... I kid the Cobra owners in the neighborhood that if one more Cobra shows up on the street, I'll switch to a Corvette because there are fewer of them around... What once was rare has become commonplace...
I just completed the sale of my Boston Whaler and it was a pure delight to deal with the kid that bought it. He paid my asking price because he knew it was priced to sell... Almost every other call I received on the ad started with," will you take less?", mind you they haven't even seen the boat yet and they're whittling me down... I usually tell them that "maybe when you see the boat you'll offer me more than my asking price because it so nice".
Also, a car buyer is used to having all the finance work done by an agency... The tire kickers are usually not cash buyers and have no clue as to how to conclude a financed deal... Most want a ride and to make friends...

I hope WT is wrong about the Cobra market staying low but based on what I'm seeing now, he's probably correct...

Let's see what happens to the highbuck aluminum Cobras in the resale market down the road... I might be delighted I only spent what I did on my replica..

Just a side note..... Any time I sold a house or a car privately, it was always the last person I expected to make the buy that was the one who bought it... so much for judging a book by its cover.

ToyCollector · #7 (**permalink**) 02-27-2003, 11:11 AM

Frankym,

I sent a few emails to the seller and got no responses back. One particular question I did have is how it was titled. I bid on the car but got held up somewhere to raise it. But if the seller did not return other inquiries from serious buyers, then shame on the seller if it did not sell.

B/Stock · #8 (**permalink**) 02-27-2003, 11:20 AM

As someone who is seriously looking for a Cobra (with cash in hand) I feel I have something to add. First, I cannot imagine buying a car sight unseen on ebay. With all the brands out there, some out of business, its very difficult to choose because a buyer usually has no idea who assembled the car or how compitent they were. Also with these turnkey cars like SPF its very tempting to just purchase a new one. I can get a new SPF complete car with a year warranty for 52k. I see the same cars used for 53k up. I am not sure whats going on there. I have limited my search to New England because I don't want to waste someones time in Texas because I cannot easly get there to see the car. When I started seriously cruseing the forums looking for a car I noticed the Spring Fling in Ohio and made resvervations. I feel it could be a good opportunity to see many Cobras and view a few cars for sale all in one place. In defense of the buyers, I don't know anyone thats wants to pay more for anything than they have to so I think calling them bottom feeders is a bit strong. I think there are many dreamers on both sides of the sale. Buyers and owners. The value of anything is what a willing seller will accept from a willing buyer. Personally I am not looking to insult anyone. I don't want to steal anyones car just buy a a great Cobra at a fair price. Enjoy

frankym · #9 (**permalink**) 02-27-2003, 11:25 AM

wtcobra,

While it's great deal, and I would likely be able to sell it in the northeast at perhaps $2k more than the purchase price of $42k, I would have the initial cost of transporting it, and the implicit financing cost of holding it during the sale process, your comment about "stepping up to the plate" is almost nonsenscial, I didn't suggest this was a car that somebody should buy to resell, but if a truly interested party were in the market for a stroker SPF, at $40k, he would be able to get $40k or better in the beginning of the summer and not lose any money provided they had a window of 3-6 months to liquidate if they decide to sell.

Every asset within the automotive category lacks liquidity, my invitation made earlier was to the people that claim to be in the market and ready to seize a good deal, which there have been many (many parties stating they are ready to buy) if you follow this forum, my remarks are toward them, not other cobra owners like yourself (nice ride by the way), and not to those bidding on eBay, but rather, as I've said, the many folks who claim to be serious about buying but not stepping up to the plate as you've said.

Cobra Fever, my point is that if you're a dealer, then you should expect to show the cars to dreamers and tire kickers, but if you're a private seller, you should not have to waste your time with somebody that has 500 in the bank and trys to lowball you for sport. I have seen people negotiate a deal without having nearly the amount of money necessary to buy the car. When I bought my SPF, I called the owner, he sent me photos, I did make him an offer as I wasn't about to drive 1500 miles to find out that we could not agree on price. I sent him a modest non refundable deposit by overnight delivery, and the final sale was subject to my test drive and verifying his represenation of the car to be accurate in all ways upon physical inspection.

Who knows, perhaps many of the folks that I have alluded to that skulk around here on the forum are en route to Texas to pick this bad boy up, and their absence on this thread is purley for negotiation purposes, my comments are made toward the tire kickers on this site that continually talk a big game about being ready to buy. Fact is, these cars are dificult to sell because of the large quantity of frogs you have to entertain before a serious buyer comes along.

I intended for this thread to provoke some interesting tales of other tire kicker stories out there, one of the principal perequisites for a free enterprize is for people to deal in good faith, without it, you may as well enter into nuclear non-proliferation treaties with North Korea

but seriously, without good faith (honesty on the part of the seller and wherewithal on the part of the buyer) there is no free market economy, plain and simple, so anytime you have somebody negotiating for the purchase of something they cannot afford, free enterprize fails, similarly when goods are marketed as something they are not, free enterprize fails. Good faith is a simple concept and part of the uniform commercial code, and a concept that tire kickers cannot grasp.

frankym · #10 (**permalink**) 02-27-2003, 11:49 AM

I think there are some really good points made here, and it's true, SPFs were going for 50-55k 2 years ago, things have changed, but I will say this, I think if you count all the SPFs for sale on hemmings, CobraCountry, ClubCobra, HOC, and cars-on-line.com, there are less than 20 SPF cars for sale (in the winter too so more likely represent better buys), with approximately 1600 SPFs in existance. Understandably, we are not counting the privately listed ads in local newspapers, but that is hardly a saturated market. Since SPF is the only replica available in turn-key minus form and never as a kit, this also adds to the stability of the car, which is why SPF 648 will have a good shelf-life and why I think 20 out of 1600 doesn't make too many available to push the prices down. One guy that came to look at my car at $25k said he was thinking about an SPF, so I politely told him that it was very unrealistic to compare the 2 cars since one was close to $50k and the other, half. He claimed he'd been to the Superformance dealer and the dealer told him that he could buy the SPF in a kit form for $20k, now, that just makes me angry when people tell you something that's patently false. I corrected the man about the single stage form of the SPF sale but he said he was sure of it. Then I said, hey, I am not going to debate you so if you can get the SPF as a kit for $20k, than I would be robbing you if I sold you mine. just a side, but back to the saturation theories..

Throw in the fact that many people would like to stay within a reasonable proximity to home, there are never more than 2 or 3 SPFs for sale within 300 mile radius of where you live, so again, hardly saturated if at best I could only look at one car per weekend given my search criteria. Given the economy, maybe if somebody went to 648's house with a paper bag filled with 30k he would take it, I doubt it, but it would be a reasonable proposition, he can say no and he hasn't wasted his time. I like the boston whaler comeback, that's a great one and an original one for sure.

good luck to all, and ebay is a very tough proposition, hell, half the cobras listed on eBay don't even give a manufacturer, or know what rear, or how many other owners there were.

I emailed the owner of 648 as well and he did respond, I suggested he offer it at that price to Doug Reed, Dennis Olthoff or Bill Ostrower, those guys buy cars too! Doug Reed told me once that he was disappointed that many of his customers didn't offer him first refusal when he found out what they let the cars go for. I also spoke to another SPF dealer I know and he said as a dealer, he's paying around 40k (3 months ago) for a 500-700 series SPF and selling in low-mid 40s, the car is registered as a more modern construction, given the VIN# (my guess), it's a conforming #, so that's about the only negative. Doug Reed did tell me that the 60's registered cars are worth more than the "special construction" but hell, any registration is better than none, try doing the registration on a new cobra build, I guarantee you'll spend 5 times as much time and effort as you originally thought.

TerrysSPF · #11 (**permalink**) 02-27-2003, 01:22 PM

I first noticed this car on Cobra Country awhile back, and I think he was originally asking 44 or 45K. He then came down to 42K. I tried to contact him via e-mail, but like ToyCollector, I never heard from him. A friend notified me that the car was on Ebay and I was able to contact the guy off Ebays e-mail system and he DID respond. I had a couple questions like: did he have the orig. 15" rims and tires, what the HP / TQ figures were on the engine, what kind of shape the black paint was in (being a owner of a number of BLACK vehicles, I know how difficult it is to take care of properly), and if he had kept a car cover on it.
For those interested, here are his answers: No, he doesn't have the 15" rims or tires. HP is around 440 but he didn't say what the TQ was (probably around the same). He said he has owned several black cars as well and the paint is in excellent shape, and that "yes" he did keep it covered - and the cover goes with the car. I would say, for someone that doesn't have as many "must have's" as I do, this would be a hellufa car for 39K. Heck, I'm still thinking it over! There's just quite a bit that I would change if it were "mine": Don't care for the leather steering wheel, and a "real" Moto-Lita wood wheel goes for about 400+; SPF 15" rims are big $$ plus I would have to get 4 new BFG's mounted / balanced; don't care for the full bumpers so I would have to replace them with SS quick jacks; the SA 396 is a good engine, but I'm looking for min. 500+HP. Perhaps I could get that out of the 396, but at what cost?? Maybe change to AFR ported heads, different cam, etc......all big dollar changes. There were other things I would have ordered on a "new" chassis that this car didn't have.......but a "new" one cost 37K+ just for the chassis! There are quite a few changes that were made to the SPF's chassis in the year 2002 that I like as well - especially the suspension upgrades, more room in the foot box, and a much nicer soft top. The susp. upgrades alone would cost 900+ bucks, and I hear the new soft top is another 900.00 (I looked into it when I was looking at car #796).
This IS a buyers market right now, thats for sure. Not only are Cobra prices falling, but a lot of the 60's hot rod prices have come down a bit. I have a friend with a spotless 69 Camaro Yenko clone that he turned down an offer of 38K 4 yrs ago at a car show. Today, he has it for sale for 30K and is having trouble selling it. Hope this economy rebounds fast...................but not until I buy a car!!

Snacol · #12 (**permalink**) 03-01-2003, 10:12 AM

Well there sure is alot of talk about my car..First I'm sorry to the gentleman that I did not respond to..I try to respond to all emails I mean I am trying to sell here...To answer another question I have the quick jacks,they go with the car...I feel 39900 is a fair price for the car.It is a buyers market right now..The economy is in bad shape and people are very cautious with spending money right now especially with war imminent..The car will sell it just takes time as many things do..Thanks again for the interest though and please contact me if you have any questions..

One more thing don't come with 30 it ain't gonna happen

southernfriedcj · #13 (**permalink**) 03-01-2003, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Snacol

One more thing don't come with 30 it ain't gonna happen

Yet.

I have sold many cars, new homes, and tracts of land, and more than once I wish I would have taken a lowball offer that I had turned down earlier. I got an offer of $1.3 million for a subdivision I(my company) have on Lake Hartwell. We made some bad decisions and had some bad luck with the project, and now a year later I've got it sold for $1.1 million. Only a $200k loss! If we accepted the 1.3 million $ offer, we would have actually made a couple 100k! We incurred 14 months of interest carry, and all development costs AFTER the lowball offer(almost forgot about 14 months of stress).
Moral of the story: in this market if somebody comes along with ready cash, you might consider how the offer would look to you if you still have the car in 6 months.

Snacol · #14 (**permalink**) 03-01-2003, 11:17 AM

Thanks for your philosophy on business..It still ain't gonna happen..Though I have experienced and can fully relate to your experience on taking lowball offers..

bnewell · #15 (**permalink**) 03-01-2003, 11:25 AM

Snacol ~

If the car ain't eating anything (monthly payments) hold your ground.......its a fair/good deal to the "RIGHT" buyer.

Brian

p.s. its just my opinion

ROSS WEAVER · #16 (**permalink**) 03-01-2003, 01:10 PM

B/Stock,

As far as resale pricing goes for the Superformance, that all depends on what engine it has, equipment and options. If you have a lot add ons, your car could be worth more than a (basic)new one.

Ross

B/Stock · #17 (**permalink**) 03-01-2003, 01:27 PM

Ross-This is the one I was refering to. I don't know how negotiable the price is. How does this priceing,with these options, sound to you? I would appreciate any input. Thanks

New Superformance Mark III Roadster
VIN Number: 980
Engine: New 5.8L/351/392 430HP Ford Performance Crate Motor (M-6007-A392) with 430 Bhp @5500 RPM, 450 ft/lbs of torque at 4000 RPM
Transmission: New Tremec 5-Speed HD Transmission (M-7003-R58)

Interior: Black leather
Exterior: Silver with Black stripes
General: Price includes optional ceramic coated side pipes, engine compartment insulation kit, glove box, shoulder and submarine belt safety harness, car cover and dealer prep.
Price: $52,000

TerrysSPF · #18 (**permalink**) 03-01-2003, 01:45 PM

B/Stock-
You can get a brand new one for that price. Same engine and tranny. Plus, SPF made a lot of upgrades to their chassis in '02 that this car (#980) wouldn't have........unless he had it upgraded to '02 specs.
Thats about what they were going for a year or so ago though. Times are tuff right now. If you're in the market, now is the time to buy! (I should practice what I preach!)

B/Stock · #19 (**permalink**) 03-01-2003, 02:15 PM

Terry
When I read the add and saw NEW I thought it meant new car not new Mark III model. There are a few used SPFs for sale that look very nice. I have to do some traveling to check them out. Do you know of a site that would indentify what year a certain # SPF was made? Thanks

TerrysSPF · #20 (**permalink**) 03-02-2003, 12:31 PM

B/Stock: I just know (at least I have a good idea) of how the vin#'s line up with the year they were made only from shopping around. I don't know what the exact "cut off" vin#'s are for each year. That may be listed in Second Strike (Superformance News Letter) or you may be able to get that info by calling a SPF dealer. I know Second Strike lists all the SPF's that are listed with them by vin# and they can even tell you what color each car is. They have a chart that tells you how many colors have been ordered and how many cars are in each color / stripe combo. Pretty neat!