Advice on selling original '65 SC 427

[ob_kook]

My friend in Tokyo has an original, mint condition1965 Shelby Cobra SC 427. All papers including CA title and notarized authentication papers signed by Carroll Shelby himself. VIN CSX-3059 and 15 miles on the odometer! This was one of 27 cobras built at Carroll Shelby’s Van Nuys plant in 1965 �Eone of which was shipped to Ford’s experimental unit for outfitting and entry in the Daytona 500 (CSX 3027). It didn’t make it in time and was wrapped and stored. #3059 was an alternate chassis and also stored. It is in absolutely perfect condition.

#3027 was bought at auction for $510,000, and indications are that #3059 should be of similar worth.

Any idea of how to reach collectors interested in such a vehicle?

[mrmustang]

www.EBAY.com


However, CSX3059 is known as a "completion" car built and completed in 1992. Pictured in USA Today 5/24/96 issue. Purchased by Takatoshi Takemoto/Den Corp. Tokyo, Japan (all per the SAAC Registry dated 1997). In a nut shell, this particular chassis was not produced until 1992, as there were never any "leftover" 1965 chassis's, only the paperwork in Carroll Shelbys files. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise is lying to you. Folks who have the $250,000 (that is roughly what this car is worth in todays market, and that is even subject to the whim of the potential buyers) to spend on a car like this will most certainly find out the true nature and history of it before purchasing. Best that you put all your cards on the table and be honest with folks your trying to get interested in your automobile.....



Hope you find this all helpful.


Bill S.

[ob_kook]

Yes, I just located and checked one of the accompanying documents by Lance Coren, a certified International Automotive Consultant in which he says in regards to the 3027 (which was also not "completed" in 1965):

"The vehicle was originally built as a rolling chassis only, by AC Cars, Limited, for and under contract to Shelby American Inc., as evidenced by invoice #a.7908 dated 1-13-65. It is further evidenced that as stated on the invoice, the chassis was built to racing specifications when delivered, verifying the fact that the assembly was a competition or semi-competition model in designation. Even though the vehicle was not a complete vehicle when leaving the factory, it is still certified to be an actual Competition or Semi-Competition vehicle based on the numerous rulings and certifications that a vehicle is considered an actual car when it possesses a complete chassis."

There are no "cards" left off the table - this post was asking for advice on selling a car - including the valuation of which. I trust that you are not implying otherwise. Furthermore, this car does not even belong to me and I am simply trying to help out a friend.

[cobrajeff]

Bill has laid it "on the line" for you - this car is not recognized by most true Cobra collectors to be an "original" 427 S/C, it is a "continuation" car. All of the originals were built in the sixties - the rest of them since then, whether Carroll Shelby, Shelby American Inc., Brian Angliss, or AC Cars had any part in it, are "replicas" in one form or another. Bill's estimate of value is right-on also, on a good day, it might be worth about one-half of what an original would go for.

Best bets for selling would be to be up-front with the history like Bill suggested, and try the SAAC newsletter, clubcobra and CobraCountry classifieds, and maybe Hemmings or The Robb Report.

Good luck selling the car!

regards,

Jeff

[ob_kook]

Thanks for the replies - seems that it was my mistake in the title of the thread - I was unaware of the distinction and was only able to get info on CSX3027.

Bill also mentioned that the chassis was not built in 1965, but only the paperwork? Is that information located in the SAAC registry too and how can I access it?

I appreciate the helpful advice!

[mrmustang]

Contact SAAC directly at

http://www.saac.com/

As for value, yes, this car will not be worth anywhere near what an original "1965 built" 427SC is. My guess is that the original purchaser of these "continuation" series cars is going to take a large financial hit when it comes time to sell them.

Sincerely,

Bill S.
SAAC member since 1982

[mrmustang]

Further factory documented evidence shows that all 30 of the "original" 427SC cars are documented. via their serial numbers as follows:

CSX#3015
CSX#3021
CSX#3022
CSX#3023
CSX#3024
CSX#3025
CSX#3030
CSX#3031
CSX#3032
CSX#3033
CSX#3034
CSX#3035
CSX#3036
CSX#3037
CSX#3038
CSX#3039
CSX#3040
CSX#3041
CSX#3042
CSX#3043
CSX#3044
CSX#3045
CSX#3046
CSX#3047
CSX#3048
CSX#3049
CSX#3050
CSX#3051
CSX#3052
CSX#3053

Hope this too is helpful.


Bill S.

[ob_kook]

I suspect that you are correct. I also suspect that this was a "bubble purchase" when many Japanese were having a hard time figuring out how to spend their money! This would explain all of the information he gave me on the more expensive in hard hopes that his must be somewhere in that ballpark.

Again, thanks for the info!

[HIQ]

I would try one of the high end Auctions. Lots of collector show up - some with more money than knowlege.

Your friend has a great car, the only question is to the resell value. Best of luck.

[mrmustang]

Yes, that is a fact, as several of the very first CSX "completion cars" were sold to, and shipped to Japan. CSX3058 was sold to the VP of Sony Trading Corp, and shipped to Tokyo, CSX3060 went to Kobe, CSX3062 was also shipped to Japan. As of 4/97. CSX3064-CSX3069 were "under construction", CSX3070-CSX3100 were in "frame only" condition. All of which were produced after 1991. (also from the 1997 SAAC registry)


Bill S.

[dexter]

Originally posted by ob_kook


Yes, I just located and checked one of the accompanying documents by Lance Coren, a certified International Automotive Consultant in which he says in regards to the 3027 (which was also not "completed" in 1965):

"The vehicle was originally built as a rolling chassis only, by AC Cars, Limited, for and under contract to Shelby American Inc., as evidenced by invoice #a.7908 dated 1-13-65.......

Check out the STG post part way down the page of this old thread:letter from AC regarding continuation chassis The scans of the letters have apparently been taken down, but I recall them as being quite specific: those continuation chassis did not exist in the 60s and weren't built by AC.

[Excaliber]

The California title is interesting. It was my understanding these "continuation" Cobras can NOT be licensed in the state of California by any means. It would appear that California is fully aware of the "status" of these "continuation" cars.

Legally, they can be a nightmare.

How interesting that this VERY SUBJECT is currently being discussed in this thread:

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/show...538#post411538

Ernie

[1985 CCX]

Has anyone ever had a picture of the CSX3045 car which was the pattern used for the Contemporary Classic cars?

Jeff

[computerworks]

I think there has been photos of CSX3045 in past and recent SAAC Registry.

[trularin]

Sometimes these threads are just down right fun to read.

[jrussell]

Bill,
Haven't we had this car come up here in years past? My memory seems to remember a red continuation car from Tokyo with similar "fishing" questions a year or two ago. Does this ring any bells with you?
Just curious,
John Russell

[computerworks]

john...you are remembering "this thread" :-)

It is a resurrected post from 2003.

[hey,littlecobra]

Ron, how are these threads 'resurrected' from so long ago?? they aren't in any of the topic menus; how can somebody drag it up???Did the 'new' guy posting about photos on the first page do a search and come up with this- and then just posted on it, even though it really doesn't connect? I've seen this happen before- old old threads pulled up.
Interesting.
thanks for helping me to understand this....
Kristen

[computerworks]

Originally posted by hey,littlecobra


Ron, how are these threads 'resurrected' from so long ago??

Good question.... the answer is usually by someone using the Search function for a specific term or issue.

For example, here on this thread...

The "resurrecting post" was made by member 1985 CCX, looking for a pic of CSX3045.

If I do a search (which is what I am guessing that he did...) for CSX3045.... I get 4 threads returned....AND this is one of them! (Mr. M. listed CSX numbers in his post and that's where the hit came from)...and he posted a question on the first thread that came up in the Search results...this one.

That's how it happens, most of the time.

[CSX 4027]

As was said, true Cobra afficianado's will snicker at any 427 S/C after CSX 3053. There have been various aluminum Shelby Clones, continuations, etc. Some better, some worse, some 3000 series, 4000 series, 7000 series, 8000 series and now the 1000 series made by AC CARS for what its worth. CSX 3059 was probably made by Mike McClusky who makes a great car and it will be at the top of the dollar scale but now throw in the mix that one can buy a Shelby, AC Cobra with a 1000 number could be a compelling confusion as to what to buy and how much to pay. I think the continuation market gets the highest dollars for the ones with the most amount of original detail, patina, parts, etc to make it at least appear as an original and not a shiny new Kit Car in a wacky color. Forget which series number it is and buy the best car.