Southern Automotive engines. Does

[computerworks]

A subjective question was asked at the start of this thread, and people are responding with first and second hand experience.

I believe you are out of line to rudely challenge a first hand answer. I am sure there are good and bad experiences with every vendor.

Keep the discussion civil.

Thanks
ron
ClubCobra Moderator

[John McMahon]

Ron,

Apologies if I am off base here, my knowledge was from dealing directly with the individual when I was winding down my tour of duty as CC moderator on Consumer Watch.

I believe this individuals account of what occurred was shared with all of CC but it is now hidden somewhere in the archives.

[computerworks]

JM...not directed at you... just a general statement to keep the tone comfortable. :-)

[Excaliber]

In CSX2300's case there were TWO vendors involved.
Southern Automotive and Finish Line.

It has been established beyond doubt that Finish Line did indeed lie to a customer, a customer in extreme ill health at that.

Based on that I would have to believe CSX2300's first hand account. So WHICH vendor should have corrected the problem? You'll never get a straight answer there, but I would hold responsible the one who I wrote the check too!

[CSX 4027]

Just a friendly FYI..
Before our sick CC friend had a problem with Finishline, they were pretty high up on the totem pole with customer satisfaction and building very capable race cars. They have probably fabricated more performance mods for the 4000 than any other dealer in the chain. On the other hand the have been multiple personal accounts listed here and elsewhere that involve Southern. So I guess I am saying, be a little open minded. Building Cobra's is not a get rich quick scheme and many dealers have found it hard to squeek out a living while paying big rent and salaries to the talented wrenches. In the case of Finishline add in the R&D and prototype machining of chassis components and I think you will get my point. Then add in the delay in Shelby delivery time and you got the whole picture. If our friend didn't get ill, it might have just been another story of a guy buying a car that took too long to get. Most of these projects left in the hands of others take substantially longer than expected but, the good thing and best part is seeing the owners smile on the maiden voyage. That is what it is all about, isn't it?

[lovehamr]

It seems to me that any reputable company would be mortified if something like a cracked block showed up in a 25K engine. If they aren't, why not? After reading the experiences of Georgiasnake and others, it really makes one wish that SA would answer directly.

[Tout]

I have a Southern built shelby engine in my car , as with any mechanical part , failures do happen, not only from Southern but ALL the companies building engines.I have never had a problem talking to Bill or Susan and even to this day call him on advice on what I am thinking of doing. When redoing engines that are this old and in some cases abused, some failures do occure, I personally know of a few and either Bill replaced or returned their money. I know the same holds true for Craft and others, the one thing I would do differently, is be more knolegable on what I exactly wanted and expected as far as HP and TQ and what kind of driving would be done, redoin things after the fact is expensive.Don't get hung up on how much HP or TQ you can get, the question is how much is usable and still have fun driving not fixing things you broke.

Tout

[Excaliber]

Steve, point well taken concerning Finish Line. Until recently I had heard only good things and they did (do?) have a great reputation.

Like any "good" company, or people for that matter, you don't really know what they (or yourself) are "made of" until the pressure is on. In this recent case Finish Line cracked under that pressure. Perhaps it wasn't the first time?

[Gatorac]

I bought a 408 from SA a few months back. Bill and Susan were very helpful in getting the motor that I wanted delivered to me within a few days of ordering.

On start-up there was a substantial oil leak. I'm 13 hours away from SA and Bill offered to come and get the car, take it back to his shop, repair it and deliver the car back to me. I had a class in Atlanta to go to so we worked something out to get the car to them.

I wanted the car ready for the Reptile Roundup and there was not enough time to get the oil leak taken care of before the event. Bill said go ahead and run it just keep tabs on the oil level. Headed down I75 between Gainesville and Ocala the car died. The distributor advance mechanisim blew apart. This froze up the distributor and sheared the pin. Fortunaly Randy Hunter had an SA windsor motor in his shop and let me take the distributor and I was back on the road.


If I had it to do over again, I would still have bought the engine from SA. They stood behind thier work. The even cleaned the oil from the bottem of the car.

The engine now has over 13k mile on it and has been spectacular. I can't imagine a better motor for a Cobra. Great power, very streetable and sounds wonderful.

[CSX 4027]

I am glad you ended up being satisfied. All engine builders have failures and all engine builds have those little nit picky problems as well. The key is to pick one that has the best track record and I am not sure that that is the case with Southern. I too had issues with an engine builder who will remain un-named. When I found my new one who is now my partner in the Miles Project, it gives you a whole new meaning to the term "sleep at night" His failures and problems while not nonexistant are certainly at the lowest possible percentile. This guy volunteers to go to the track with clients without asking for compensation just to babysit a motor. Clients end up paying him just because of appreciation. So, his reputation is really stellar. He is also jammed up for quite some time so, this is not a sales pitch either. We are turning away work because he feels if he can't devote his usual amount of time to a motor and feels it has to be a "rush job", he would rather not take it on.
I have been spoiled with this guy.

[GeorgiaSnake]

To all - I'm sorry if I was less than civil I tend to shoot then ask questions - kept me alive so I stick with it.

I can tell you that some motors floating around with an SA lable are not SA motors.

In order to remain civil I will not tell any stories about another vendor mentioned in this thread - I will say that I wouldn't trust him with my dead cat.

I'm off to drive my POS replica with the powerhouse motor from SA.


Randy

[CowtownCobra]

JBBRIGHT, I have no first hand experience with SA, but these are the first complaints I have ever heard about them, their reputation is pretty good. The other 2 top notch engine vendors IMHO are Keith Craft and Gessford. I haven't heard anything negative about them either, but then, who knows. I love my KC motor BTW.

[Cracker]

First of all, I am not a SA customer but wouldn't think twice about using them - and I'm not just saying that because I'm literally surrounded by SA frenzied customer's - quite literally. We all worship something.

What I would ask you is to determine what you intend to do with the car and therefore expect the engine to do conversely. Mr. Bill P. has told me first hand (by phone) that his specialty is building a good street engine that starts most every time, more stock like renditions - for that I would go for one of his FE's. If exotica (as much as an FE can be) is your thing, another builder might be a better choice - but only as such. I'm not recommending anyone else but just something to think about when selecting the heartbeat of your car.

ONAD: Funny how quick everyone is to praise and then attack any contrary experience. I for one, for once, am glad to be not the center of discussion.

Mr. Bill P. - Hope alls well!

Like GS said Jason Patrick has one of SA's Super FE's - it scooted right away making all kinds of glorious noise at our last meet, well, at least the last one they told me about.

[badrich]

It would appear that if you dig deeply enough you'll hear something negative about any engine builder. I had heard good things about SA and was impressed with their very good web site. My FE had just given up the ghost and I was tired of shopping around and was ready to go for the full treatment 427 Sideoiler. I sent two detailed email messages and even talked to someone there who said the best person to talk to was out. I told him I was ready to do business and asked them to get back with me ASAP. They never called, they never wrote. I thought it over and decided that if this is how responsive they were before I purchased their product, how were they going to be if there were any glitches?

In spite of the enormous price, I decided to go with the real deal. My Shelby motor is very impressive, and it is real, if not original. But to paraphrase the formally funny Dennis Miller, "But that's just my experience, yours could be different." Rich

[patrija]

Hey guys, "Jason Patrick" checking in ... sorry I'm late to the party! I'll assume that JBBright is happy choosing SA as an engine builder (wise choice in my opinion), and maybe get the thread back to the original question of "experience with their clone 427 engines". I've had two engines from SA and both were 427 clones based on the 390 block. I highly recommend it.

The first engine was their 406 "clone" which is what's posted on their website and what I call the perfect replica engine for your replica cobra. I had this engine for 3 years and it's an outstanding choice, particularly at the price point. If price is a primary decision point (when isn't it), it's very important to make sure you're comparing apples to apples. SA's price includes everything while a lot of others don't appear to. A 406 isn't going to help you bring the resale that a 427 will, but it's also not going to cost you as dearly. You'll get the beautiful FE sound and whenever you open the hood or someone looks underneath, it's spot on for a 427. Just don't lie about it during a sale - that's apparently happened at least once.

I finally convinced my wife that we need more horsepower (not easy to do) and traded in my 406 for an upgrade ... the "Super FE". SA has made at least 2 of these engines and perhaps a few more by now. Simply put ... take a 406 and add the following to get a monster.

- roller rocker arms with end stands
- Edelbrock aluminum cylinder heads with larger valves
- crankshaft windage tray
- aluminum water pump
- billet aluminum water pump and crankshaft pulleys
- Scat 4.250" stroke crankshaft
- Scat H beam competition rods
- custom pistons
- 9.8:1 Compression

My 406 is now up to 452 c.i. and about 520 horsepower. The engine has a much louder and more aggressive exhaust note that seems different from other FE's around the block. I'm very happy and if your considering a 406 would at least talk to Bill about this upgrade.

Final thought is that there are LOTS of good references to SA, do a search and you'll see. Give Bill a call and ask him any questions you have - he will shoot you straight. SA has been in business a long time and done a lot of engines ... there are good service stories and references that you may not find here on the web. Feel free to PM or email me for more info, glad to help!

Jason

[Jerry Cowing]

To change the subject a little, I heard a rumor that Lewis Cairns, Bill's engine builder, has left SA. Does anyone know if it is true Lewis left and, if so, where Lewis moved?

[GeorgiaSnake]

I think he retired

Randy

[Dave Crace]

Just thought I would chime in here with another positive SA experience. I have one of Bill's 351/427 strokers. Hasn't missed a beat yet. Everyone I know that has had any problem with an SA engine has been satisfied with the solution.

[Tony Ripepi]

Hello All,

I own CSX4264; it was built by Shannon Fry with a SA sideoiler motor. Shortly after I bought the car I started to experience coolant and oil leaks that were traced back to the engine. I talked to Bill Parham directly and it was after the one year anniversary of the purchase but, there were significant periods of time while the paint, fit, finish of the car were being done during that first year. When I bought the car I felt confident in the reputation of SA, that confidence has not been reinforced by the reality of dealing with SA.

The block had a crack in it, the rear and front seals leaked. Additional coolant leaks were weeping around the freeze plugs.
Bill would only offer advice on how to use a ceramic sealing agent in the block and a ball peen hammer on the outside to attempt to close the crack.....he would not step up to the responsibility for the engine being built with a cracked block.

I am still dealing with the issues surrounding the engine and do not have confidence that I will not replace it due to the shoddy work from SA.

Every body is entitled to an opinion mine is formed by Bill Parham and dealing with a poorly built motor that started with a cracked block. SA has a reputation and the good and bad of the reality is reflected in this thread.

Tony R.

[Excaliber]

Interesting, mostly good, some bad, and then that twist of an SA Finish Line connection. What was THAT all about? I thought Finish Line built their own motors?

I have heard negative comments, all beit in some cases only one or two and often "suspect", about "most" of the vendors here on CC. I guess that comes with the territory, you can't keep all the people happy all the time. Some reports have been more disturbing than others, to say the least, such a Tony R cited above. There not easily dismissed.

I haven't heard a single negative word about Gessford Machine, which is kind of surprising now that I think of it. Surely at some point, some where, some one must be unhappy with something they've done?

Not me though, I know not of SA or others, but Gessford certainly has been "over the top" in dealing with my motor issues. Don't get me started about the pitiful dealings I've had with "local machine shops", the horror!