Tim Gunning & Sagebrush Roadsters

krausewich · #1 (**permalink**) 10-14-2009, 06:44 PM

Hi All,
I've been a member here since 99. I finally made the move to
build my own car and paid for a 289 body from Tim Gunning on
Aug. 04 2009, for mid-August delivery. He sent me quite a few
pictures to verify this body beforehand. It was a product that
had been previosly produced and in his posession. Two months
and not a single phone call or email from him later, I still had not
received my products. I went to my bank and froze a good portion
of the funds, which they have returned pending investigation. On
Oct 8th He sent me an email that he would be willing to return the
money for the body. I informed him that I froze the amount I did, and
that I desired a bank check for the balance. Now Tim has decided
that he is "going to think a bit further on this whole thing. In
any case, I will not be forwarding any check to you this week,
and am considering a restocking charge." Am I missing something here ??

Everyone please beware of Tim Gunning / Sagebrush Roadsters.
Deceptive, dishonest, permanent damage to reputation done !

Mike

khansmith · #2 (**permalink**) 10-14-2009, 06:59 PM

I hope your situation is resolved with all your funds returned. Maybe you should charge him for "opportunity cost"

LMH · #3 (**permalink**) 10-14-2009, 08:52 PM

I hope you can work out a solution that's best for the both of you. I know Tim and have bought a few things from him. My experience has been only positive and his work is among the best.
I'm not here to tout the Tim banner but I do know if you're willing to talk it over with him with mutual respect, you can work this out.
Larry

jay bentley · #4 (**permalink**) 10-15-2009, 09:23 AM

I bought a bunch of suspension parts off of Tim this past winter after a ball joint failure. Some parts had to be made and some he had in stock. We did business over the coarse of several months. All of my dealings with him were trouble free. He seemed very laid back and a couple of times just sent me parts to see if they worked before he even charged me. He seemed like an nice honest guy to me.

Jay

Tony Ripepi · #5 (**permalink**) 10-15-2009, 10:58 AM

Hi Mike,

Hope this works out for you and you get your money back. I have talked to Tim and he seemed to have a great deal of experience, knowledge and a straight shooter. I am looking for some specific components for an under car exhaust and was referred to Tim by some very reputable people. And through those references Tim recieved a level of trust and respect.

When dealing with small business men in the replicar industry you need to have some patience and let the craftsmen you are working with do what they do best, sometimes their lack of communications/business skills allow for misunderstandings. The businesses you are dealing with tend to not have the financial resourses of a large manufacturer or commercial dealership.

I am not defending Tim but, your actions after two months without communicating your concerns may have been perceived as an attack. After you revealed that you severed the relationship, Tim's knee jerk reaction was to back up and contemplate his possible course of action and possibly some feelings of ambush, there are always two sides to every story.

I personally have built many cars, bought and sold others and the key ingredient for a "Win Win" for the seller and buyer is communications.

One man's opinion,

Tony R.

aurora cobra · #6 (**permalink**) 10-15-2009, 04:30 PM

That name sure brings back memories. I sold a set of molds for a 289 cobra to high tech back in the mid to late 90's. They were the Aurora Cobra molds from the Canadian made Aurora car company. I assume he's the same Tom Gunning that bought my molds. I remember he told me he was ex secert service and had me checked out, he seemed like an honest guy. good luck with getting your money back.

brettco · #7 (**permalink**) 10-15-2009, 09:00 PM

I would like to meet up with Tim some day.

krausewich · #8 (**permalink**) 10-16-2009, 08:08 AM

Hi Tony,
In my initial posting I made sure to note that he ..
"... sent me quite a few pictures to verify this body
beforehand. It was a product that had been previosly
produced (many months prior), and in his posession."
It already existed. All he had to do was ship it.

He wrote to me, asking if I wanted to buy it. I hear
what you're saying about craftsman and this industry,
but the only factors involved here are that he failed
to meet obligations (set by him) without a single
consideration to communication. Now he is just as
illusive in providing an honest refund. Squating on
my funds, and making up ridiculous antics such as
"..a restocking fee.." Fee for ??? He didn't do anything.
That is the root of this whole problem. This is all ludicrous!
How many businesses can you think of that practice this
money up front, you'll get it when you get it, and your
funds are subject to how I see fit mentality? What was
ever wrong with 'something came up. I apologize. Here
is your money back, I hope we can do business again
in the future...?'

He forfeited all of his rights to interpret anything after he
failed to meet his initial obligation.

When does the victim have the right to say 'what gives?' in all this?

If anyone else has had similar experiences, please chime in. I would
love to hear your thoughts.

tcrist · #9 (**permalink**) 10-16-2009, 08:42 AM

So you are saying that he contacted you about purchasing a body. You did not contact him first. How did he know that you were looking for a body?

None the less, he had a body for sale that he had in stock already made and you paid him for the body. Then he did not deliver the body and will not send you your money back. Then he also wants to charge you a restocking fee for a body that he did not deliver.

That sounds really strange to me or that is not all there is to this.

Do you have anything in writing from him? The trouble is that if your deal was just word of mouth and no receipt or written contract from him everything is just one of them I said/he said situations.

Hope that you get your money back or get the body.

Terry

computerworks · #10 (**permalink**) 10-16-2009, 09:01 AM

In the past, many members have mentioned that they know Gunning and Sagebrush.

I would encourage any of those members to contact Gunning and advise him that a counterpoint here, if any, would be a prudent move.

ron
ClubCobra Moderator

ZOERA-SC7XX · #11 (**permalink**) 10-16-2009, 04:09 PM

Situation definitely needs mediation. I've seen worse situations repaired when good people step in to help make things right. I hope that's the case here. Almost everyone who wants to build a Cobra stops here on CC first.

Tony Ripepi · #12 (**permalink**) 10-18-2009, 02:19 PM

Hello All,

I have spoken to Tim and had PM communications with Mike.

As I said earlier there are two sides to every issue and my opinion is that this is the case in this situation. I am sure that Mike and Tim will work this out and they will each be made whole on the other side of this one.

Best Regards,

Tony R.

LMH · #13 (**permalink**) 10-19-2009, 12:36 AM

I talked to Tim over the weekend and I agree that there is two sides to this story. It'll work out as you said Tony.
Larry

krausewich · #14 (**permalink**) 10-19-2009, 02:39 PM

Hi Tony and Larry,
As I am in the dark here... what two sides could there possibly be?
Please share.

Mike.

ZOERA-SC7XX · #15 (**permalink**) 10-19-2009, 05:24 PM

I agree with Krausewich at this point. One man took another's money and didn't deliver the advertised product. What am I missing here? When I buy a product, I pay a price for said product. When the product isn't delivered, I expect my money returned in full. Attitude should not be a factor...just the product. If a vendor cannot deliver, he shouldn't be in business.

LMH · #16 (**permalink**) 10-20-2009, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krausewich

Hi Tony and Larry,
As I am in the dark here... what two sides could there possibly be?
Please share.

Mike.

You know Mike, this puts me in a somewhat difficult position as I don't want to upset my friendship with Tim. He tends to keep his personal life private and I know he doesn't want me telling world his probelms.
He has had family in the hospital/surgery and been caring for them. That takes priority, period. I'll leave that at that.

That said, I know Tim told you a couple weeks ago he was returning your money for the body. So there has been communication between the two of you. He emailed you prior to that as I understand it w/o any response from you. I understand your recent loss of your job causing the need for money and building a car at this point isn't the best path to take. I'd want a refund too but why would someone treat you with respect when your not willing to return the favor. If you push someone against the wall, don't expect them to stand there and take it, especially in this hobby. That catch phrase "the customer is always right" is offten bunk IMO.

I'm not looking for an argument here and I'm not a spokesman for Sagebrush or Tim in any way. He told me he would be sending you the money and he does feel that you deserve the refund. I think what happened here is bad timing with Tims personal responsibility to his family and a lack of respect for the other guy in this deal. It's too bad that the deal can't work out as Tim is really a craftsman. People contact him from all over the world for replacment parts for their original cars. That's how accurate his products are.

Anyway, that's how I see this situation. Hope everything works out for you for the best.
Larry

krausewich · #17 (**permalink**) 10-20-2009, 10:04 AM

Thank you for your take and input on the situation Larry.

Mike.

Tony Ripepi · #18 (**permalink**) 11-11-2009, 09:57 AM

Mike,

Any updates?

Tony R.

krausewich · #19 (**permalink**) 11-11-2009, 04:10 PM

HI Tony,
I suppose a little something... I did receive an email from Tim on Oct 19th that he
would be sending out a check that week. However, now 3 weeks later, still nothing.
It's been over 3 months now since he was paid. There is no just reason to validate
Tim's gross and inexcusable display of neglect and disrespect, no matter what. It all
seems to be another haunting example in the 'kit' world of one man willing to play
with other people's money. This kit industry as a whole has fought very hard over the
last decade to outgrow its former stigma, and provide the quality, professionalism and
support to make car building a reality for thousands, while really gaining traction and
credibility within the automotive community. It's a shame that a prime example like this
can really take that momentum out at the knees. Thank you for the follow up Tony.

Mike.

Anthony · #20 (**permalink**) 11-11-2009, 04:37 PM

FWIW,

I met Tim Gunning in 1998-99, sometime back then. After analyzing the cobra market, I had decided to purchase a Hi-tech car, so, just to be safe, I flew out to phoenix to view the business. They were in the process of moving to a new building, I think smaller one, and after talking to Tim, he kept re-assuring me that his business was Ok, and he would gladly accept a down payment/deposit for a roller. Something gave me a bad feeling, so even though I wanted my cobra bad, I decided to wait. As it turned out, a great decision. He closed up shop shortly after, and from what I have read, he stiffed many people for partially completed cars/deposits.

Now, Gunning is running sagebush. Maybe history is repeating itself.