eBay Policies are INSANE!!

khansmith · #1 (**permalink**) 02-08-2010, 07:46 PM

I don't think I have ever posted a rant before but I wanted to share something with you guys about ebay. I put my truck up for auction and it sold. I couldn't get ahold of the buyer, went through ebay channels, etc. I finally get ahold of him and it seems he "accidently" bid on two trucks at the same time and couldn't afford mine too. Through ebay mail, he admits this breach of contract and said he wouldn't fight negative feedback.
Now this buyer had FLAWLESS feedback; 100% positive feedback...this maybe was just a mistake on his part but I was going to leave negative feedback anyway. I come to find that SELLER CANNOT LEAVE NEGATIVE OR NEUTRAL FEEDBACK ON EBAY....this is why welchers like the one that bought my truck have 100% perfect feedback! Here is the email ebay sent me today when I asked why I couldn't leave this feedback:
----------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Khan,
Thank you for writing eBay in regard to your concern. I'm sorry for any inconvenience it's causing you now. I understand yourconcern and will put in my best efforts to help you resolve this issue as quickly as possible. Khan, we changed our Feedback system back in 2008. Sellers can no longerleave buyers negative or neutral Feedback. The reason for this change is that sellers deal with payment problems byfiling Unpaid Item cases, and the fear of retaliatory Feedback was keeping buyers from posting honest evaluations of their experiences. We believe the changes we made to feedback will increase buyer confidence -- and sellers' businesses. Just to be clear - Sellers can still report a buyer who doesn't pay, just as sellers have always done. When buyers don't have to worry about retaliation for negative feedback and know that feedback left for sellers is honest, the buyers will trustsellers more -- and be more willing to buy from the sellers. Everybody benefits. If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to reply to this email and let us know. It is my pleasure to assist you.

Thank you for choosing eBay!

Sincerely,
eBay Customer Support
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I reported this deadbeat and NOTHING HAPPENS.. His rating didn't change, he is still happily bidding on ebay and I had to relist and sell my truck again which got a LOWER PRICE. He bennefitted and I got screwed. So go ahead and bid on anything you want on eBay and not pay...why not...everyone gets an "A" on eBay....

Zedn · #2 (**permalink**) 02-08-2010, 07:59 PM

I had a similar experience only it was with make an offer.

I was selling a Mazda RX7 and used the make offer function. A guy made me an offer about an hour before the listing ended subject to him applying for a loan with the bank and getting approval. As there was only an hr left and he had been up front i agreed to the condition. Ebay says that this is fine to do so.

In the end he couldnt get his money approved and didnt buy it. I was hit with the sold item fees of about $50. All our communication was through ebay and they had a complete record of all correspondance. When i contacted them they said i have to raise an unpaid item dispute against the buyer and they will investigate. This all sounded a bit aggressive towards a buyer that was honest up front so i cut my losses and paid the fee. I didnt mind so much as it sold through another website the next day and i got $500 more than i had agreed through ebay.

Ebay and paypal are not very good to deal with, but the benefits for me outway the negatives.

khansmith · #3 (**permalink**) 02-09-2010, 07:57 AM

I find eBay very useful as well; especially as a buyer. As a seller, I used to have confidence in a buyer's rating; I would even cancel bids based on low feedback counts for big ticket items. Now as a seller I know that the buyer feedback is bogus and has no measure against the buyer.
In their response, eBay said it is a "win win" situation. I don't know how they could say this when:
1.) My vehcile didn't sell
2.) I had to spend two weeks waiting for a reply (time) before I could relist
3.) My relisted auction got less than the original winning bid (that is a hard cost)
4.) I had people wonder if there was something wrong with the vehicle since the auction wasn't honored
5.) ebay investigations did nothing

Will I use ebay again? Absolutely but I am definitly not going to consider selling a car on there again with these lame feedback policies. It's like kindergarten where "everyone wins." You can always challenge feedback and have it removed if it is abused. Buyers and sellers can abuse this tool. I guess this is a reflection of living in a society where accountability has no merit.

kayakjack · #4 (**permalink**) 02-09-2010, 08:23 AM

It is a tough problem for EBay that does not appear to have an easy solution. A couple of years ago I bought a subscription from an EBay seller. This was before EBay changed its policy restricting what sellers could say about a buyer. The seller's policy was to not give feedback on the buyer until they got feedback from the buyer.

As the buyer, my obligation was to pay for the subscription, which I did immediately. I was entitled to positive feedback at that time, but the seller was waiting for me to say something nice about him before he reciprocated. I think that was common practice.

I never got the subscription. The seller kept asking me to wait longer. Said all was OK. It wasn't.

I told EBay about it and they removed the seller from EBay. I ended up getting my money back from PayPal even though I had waited too long (per their policies) to make a claim. I was waiting for my subscription and I (incorrectly) believed the seller.

Jack

khansmith · #5 (**permalink**) 02-09-2010, 08:30 AM

Don't get me wrong; I have been screwed as a buyer but at least I had the option to rate that seller. I don't mind the "feedback mexican standoff" but I always wait until I get the goods before leaving a response. The buyers have more recourse than sellers. This is weird to me as the sellers are the ones paying ebay auction fees (their primary revenue stream followed by advertising, etc). Why bite the hand that feeds you? You have to monitor and handle feedback on both sides of the equation?

I guess I am weird...

lnfletcher · #6 (**permalink**) 02-09-2010, 08:33 AM

It seems to me an easy solution would be to block the seller from seeing the buyer's feedback until the Seller posts his feedback for the buyer. Then not allow it to be changed for that buyer. This way the seller could not wait until the buyer posted or would not know his feedback.

kayakjack · #7 (**permalink**) 02-09-2010, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lnfletcher

It seems to me an easy solution would be to block the seller from seeing the buyer's feedback until the Seller posts his feedback for the buyer. Then not allow it to be changed for that buyer. This way the seller could not wait until the buyer posted or would not know his feedback.

Actually I think that is a good idea! If they did that, I could have torched the seller as he deserved when he did not perform. I wouldn't have feared that he would retaliate against me unfairly. After all, I paid immediately and never got the subscription.

In the end I never left any feedback on him. Not worth the risk he would retaliate. So the next buyer never knows he is is a d-bag.

By the way, I don't think the seller intended to screw me. I think he just was not able to get the great deal on the subscription he thought he could.

Jack

Gunner · #8 (**permalink**) 02-09-2010, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lnfletcher

It seems to me an easy solution would be to block the seller from seeing the buyer's feedback until the Seller posts his feedback for the buyer.

Which is a great idea but impossible to implement. The seller can simply visit eBay as a guest or under a second account to view the feedback - and I guarantee you all regular sellers would do so.

eBay's entire feedback and buyer protection system was based on a naive college boy's idea of fair play. They've been patching it ever since, to no one's satisfaction except those who have learned to exploit the current loopholes. They should have thrown the entire system out and rebuilt it around one more secure and even-handed a long time ago.

RedBarchetta · #9 (**permalink**) 02-09-2010, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunner

eBay's entire feedback and buyer protection system was based on a naive BILLIONAIRE college boy's idea of fair play.

Corrected.

On a serious note, I tend to buy more on eBay than sell, mostly for the reasons already stated. I'm up to 98 feedbacks with 100% and would hate to spoil that because I end up selling something that another feels wasn't portrayed accurately (for whatever reason...if a buyer wants out of a deal they will use every excuse in the book to do so, knowing there is zero recourse to be felt from FleaBay management).

-Dean

Ronbo · #10 (**permalink**) 02-09-2010, 10:08 AM

Just file a non-pay, if the buyer gets 3 non-pays ebay kicks them off.

Overall I've had good results from ebay but I've been screwed by a few sellers over the years. Right now money is in short supply not stuff to sell, so it's not suprising that the current rules favor the buyer.

Personally, I'll never commit to buy a vehicle on ebay.

Gunner · #11 (**permalink**) 02-09-2010, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBarchetta

Corrected.

He wasn't a billionaire when he started eBay to sell his GF's collection of Beanie Babies or whatever - just another mope in an alumni sweatshirt who thought the whole world was like the Student Union.

I love how these "free, open-source, trust everyone" types turn into tight-fisted goose-steppers when it's THEIR product or intellectual property on the block, and not "everyone else's."

Been in and around tech for 30 years and watched the cycle over and over, to the point where I won't take dewy-eyed college gangs with The Next Big Idea as clients any more.

kayakjack · #12 (**permalink**) 02-09-2010, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunner

I love how these "free, open-source, trust everyone" types turn into tight-fisted goose-steppers when it's THEIR product or intellectual property on the block, and not "everyone else's."

That's actually pretty funny!!

Jack

Gunner · #13 (**permalink**) 02-09-2010, 10:45 AM

Wrong thread (and generally wrong forum) for this, but I slowwwwwly acquired a world-class disgust with this species of world-changer.

In short, when they're broke grad students living in dorm socialism, everything from music to software to public transit to... whatever... should be free, and anyone making money from those things is some kind of greedy nazi capitalist pig. So they rip off CDs and software and everything else, all with the highest motives.

Then they and five of their friends have this really great idea for some software, which of course will be done under open source and given away free and they'll all just commit to building and supporting it f'revermore because, you know, that's how the world works.

UNTIL... some bit of that group effort suddenly acquires value, either in the marketplace or because a big company comes sniffing around for the rights, and suddenly these groovy types are living in gated communities, driving Mercedes and mercilessly prosecuting everyone who even thinks about bumping against their patented techniques. Cuz, of course, that's how the world works.

RedBarchetta · #14 (**permalink**) 02-09-2010, 10:50 AM

Gunner is on fire!

Love it.

RodKnock · #15 (**permalink**) 02-09-2010, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBarchetta

Gunner is on fire!

Love it.

Yep, and if those intellectual goose-steppers with a Mercedes actually had an FFR in the garage, well, then, Gunner would spontaneously combust.