RUCC woes (long post)

[shnookie]

I have'nt posted in a while so here goes. I need to know weather to litigate a situation or not. Here is the situation.

On January 1st, 2001 I placed an order with RU car crafters in Sand Springs,OK. After doing much research, I thought it was the best kit for the money. The agreement with RU is to pay a $500.00 deposit,1/2 30 days before the car is due, and balance on delivery. On 3/11/2000, Roger called and said he had the frame done and I promptly sent him a check for half the balance.
The car was due on 5/21/2001. I decided to drive out to pick up the car in Sand Springs on 5/21 in conjunction with a vacation. On 5/20, Roger notified me that the car would not be ready untill 5/22. I drove down on 5/22 only to find out the car was not ready. Roger did deliver the main parts of the car to my house on 6/10. However the following parts were missing. (Roll bar, Side pipes and headers, motor mounts, A arms, coil overs, wiring harness, and many small parts. While most of the parts have filtered in in the last year, I have still not received the headers, motor mounts and dashboard. It is now 21 months after I first placed my order. I cannot assemble the car without the metal mounts,side pipes or dashboard. At first, calls were returned promptly. Now,Roger is no longer answering any calls. My dream car is now sitting in the garage, with the engine on a stand. Do any of you have an idea if I have a case for breach of contract or fraud?

It is sad when a few manufacturers give this industry a bad name and do not respect the hard earned money and dreams most of us put into these cars

Any more info needed feel free to call or Email me and I'll give you all the info I can.
Any RUCC owners input would also be appreciated.


Thanks
Jeff
jbridgett@home.com

[Jay]

I am in the same boat as snhookie. I received my kit July 2000. Everything I ordered was present minus 460 motor mounts. I then was assured by Roger that they were coming soon (so may excuses ago I can't remember). I was not in a hurry at that time so it did not seem like a problem.

Shortly after receiving the kit I ordered the headers. I have now been promised that they are done a just waiting for 1 more part to complete, that was Jan 2001.

I have made countless calls to RUCC. I have spoke to him 2 times in the past year and have been guaranteed that they are ready. I am now sitting at a point that I can not do anything till I receive the mounts. I will build them if I have to, but this just pisses me off.

I gave Roger the benefot of the doubt. However, fullfilling obligations is the first part of business and I am not going to let him off the hook.

Jay

[Charles Howard]

Try calling Rich Anderson at Shell Valley- he just might be the man that can help..... he carries a large selection of parts, might be worth the phone call.

[427sharpe]

It seems odd to me...
I live in Texas, close to RUCC (?) and have NEVER heard of this clown---how did 2 guys so far away get his number?? Is he advertising in far away papers only??? This seems like a red flag--I would call the OK Atty Gen--seems like a case of mail fraud across state lines.

[shnookie]

RUCC seemed to be respectable. He was in Curt Scotts Cobra guide and had quite a few cars built. His car looked good and is well built. (Sounds alot like Contemporary, HUH?) He also used to advertise in KITCAR but stopped a few years ago. (stated he had too much business) I have heard from him in the past few days. He still says he's working on parts. The excuses seem to go on and on. Supposedly now, the mounts will be done in a few weeks. We'll see.

[Larry Hills]

I sent RUCC $5.00 for an info paca month ago. If I don't get it
soon I will file a complant with the USPS. It can be done on-line.

http://www.usps.com/postalinspectors/fraud/welcome.htm

[albright42]

after some delay. He has never cashed the check.

Albright42

[Jim Colman]

I interviewed Roger Upton back in '97 when I was filming "Bitten by the Snake". I never used the interview in the finished program because at the time, I didn't think that Roger would be in business too much longer.
In fact, he was two days late in showing up for R&G and almost missed it altogether.

I don't have any solid information about RUCC except for my gut feelings about the guy and his methods. Roger was an extremely nice fellow, but he always seemed to be in over his head. He tends to promise more than he can deliver. I think that he runs a very small shop with a couple of "good ol boys" for help. Frankly, I'm surprised that he is still in business.

Again, I have nothing against Roger, I rather liked him, but after meeting him I don't think I would buy a car from him.

Cheers
Jim

[TheShadow]

I sent five dollars to RUCC months ago. No response. You have to wonder if Roger cares about damage control. A reputation once lost is rarely recovered.

Ed

[Mike Jones]

I have been following the threads about RUCC for
a while and altho I agree with what has been posted
I would like to add a few things.

First let me start out by saying I own a RUCC kit.
I have the back bone frame and have found the design and workmanship excellent. The body is very
straight with great fit and finish. In the event
something happend to my kit (theft, accident ect.)
knowing what I do about both Roger/RUCC and the kit
I would buy another RUCC.

To be fair I had problems also. My kit was two
months late being finished. To make up for it Roger
delivered my kit free, a thousand mile drive round
trip. The few parts (headers and side pipes) that
were back ordered, Roger refuned the cost of these
items when he delivered my kit, his idea not mind.
I must add also I have not had a lot of trouble
reaching Roger on the Phone, sometimes the same day
other times a few days later. He is much better
after you buy than before. I don't think Roger would have as many problems if he would stay with
one design but he keeps improving it. I allways
want the best so I find it hard to ask him to stop
making impovements. I have not heard any complaints
on sloppy workmanship or bad design. A course in
time management would not hurt.

Roger has always been fair and honest with me.
If you use the search function you will find a few
companys and individuals that lye, cheat and
misrepresent the truth. An example is Roger is not
taking any new orders untill he is caught up. I know of at least one kit builder that was mostly
a telemarketing scam just trying to get your deposit money. I and several other Houston Club
Cobra members are currently helping a fellow member
correct the sloppy work done by a professional Cobra builder (look under Texas Cobra Club). If
you think Roger is slow this Pro builder promised
to have the kit finished in 3 to 6 months can you
say 26 months and the cobra was still unsafe to drive.

Sorry I rambled so long just my .02 cents.

Mike Jones

[TheShadow]

RUCC needs to pull all advertisement until he can do something as simple as mailing a brochure.

my $5 worth on this subject
Ed

[shnookie]

To be fair, Roger delivered my kit also. However,since I went to pick up my kit, trailer and all, only to find out the kit was'nt done when I got there, I feel it was only right he brought the kit to me. It seems like Roger has a habit of being late. Noit good, but typical in this industry. However, sitting with an unassembleable kit for almost two years is UNACCEPTABLE. Yes, the frame is great. Yes, the body is good.
and yes, Roger is constantly trying to improve things. This can also be said about quite a few other manufacturers. Most of them do not seem to have 2 year backorders. I did not pay for my motor mounts or headers either. However, the kit is unfinishable without them. I'm not so sure this is'nt either a legal maneuver or a way to take the pressure off him for supplying parts in a timely fashion though. I am now in the process of working with Shell valley on mounts. (the metal parts) The rubber mounts everyone else uses (Superformance, Shell , Midstates, etc) are available. I ordered and received them from Checker and received them in two days. To give him credit, Roger called me to tell me he was having A-arm twist on the IRS and he was working on designing new arms. How long?
who knows. If he is not building kits right now (As he has stated to me numerous times.) how long does it take to engineer motor mounts and headers? Unfortunately, I know of at least three other people waiting on parts for a long time. We'll see how long it takes me to fab the mounts. I think I can do it in less than two years though.
Would I buy another? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Just my two cents.

[Roger Upton]

Roger Upton on what is going on at RUCC. I have always said that RUCC is a small operation, but with a very high quality kit.
To produce a high quality kit you have to have skilled employees. The RUCC backbone chassis is a complex chassis to cut, fit and weld. We have had a hard time keeping a good welder fitter. Which in turn keeps putting us behind. So to solve the problem I was going to weld up the chassis myself and just produce less kits a year.
RUCC had a good fiberglass guy, that had been with us 4 years, that stuck with RUCC and worked excessive hours including weekends for the last couble of years, trying to help make up for the lost time of welders that RUCC either had to let go or that quit. He quit at the first of this year. So may decision was to just have a limited production kit and build the kits myself.
RUCC quit selling kits in March until we could have all the back order kits and parts caught up. So RUCC could solve its late delivery problems and as many back order problems as possible. All kit car companies have some parts back ordered from time to time due to suppliers which is beyond their control.
RUCC offered the customers that had kits ordered that where not already started their deposits back since the kits where going to be late. We have been later than I expected because of unforeseen problems and medical reasons.
I apologize to the people that sent in for the information packet. RUCC has not cashed any of the checks that people have sent in for the information packet. The end of last year RUCC changed what came with the different stages and the pricing. Our computor crashed and lost the latest information. I had sold the last information packet RUCC had with out knowing it was lost in the computer. But, thanks to the customer that ordered the last kit sold in March sending us back a copy of the information packet we are now getting it redone. I also thought it better to take care of the customers we had than to keep spending time making the new information packet, shop visits and calls trying to sell more kits. It did take longer than I thought it would.
There was several parts of the kit that I wanted to improve so I spent the time to re-engineer the parts and have them made. So the guys with the late cars would have the new improvements as and upgrade at no additional charge.
RUCC had motor mounts adapters for the 429-460 motor back ordered. Due to having to fab a new design because the rubber mount we where using was discontinued. We where also way behind on headers and sidepipes and our supplier on them was not helping at all. So I had to find a new supplier. The new supplier and RUCC are having to re-jig for all the engine types that we are offering for the kits. The new sidepipes have better baffling that we can have either quieter are louder depending on what the customer is looking for. The new sidepipes also are much nicer looking and have better attaching methods to the headers and to the chassis. But our new supplier does lots of work for the racers including IRL, Wiston Cup and the Truck series. So we had to work with them around the racing season. The new sidepipes are definitely worth the wait.
Our fiberglass guy started working for us again and we are now back in production with a better kit than what we had before and should be completely caught up by the middle of February. We will start taking shop visits again then with a very few in-between now and then.


I sincerely thank all of my customers for their patience. And apologize for their inconvenience.

Roger N. Upton

[Jim Colman]

Good to see your reply Roger! Also great to hear that you are still in production.

In my earlier post I said that I didn't include your interview in my video because I didn't think you'd still be in business. Guess what, one of the builders I did include in the video (G&S motorsports) went out of business less than a year after I finished the video. Goes to show that I'm no judge of character!

Anyway, I'm glad that you're trying to take care of your customers. Hopefully you'll be up to full speed soon. Best of luck to you.

Cheers
Jim

[Leo]

Roger, You're welcome and thank you for putting your current customers in front of new ones. I would argue that in your type of business that the big money is in new sales; not the re-sale, follow-up, small ticket upgrades and add-ons. In my mind, the fact that you've intentionally focused on 'catching up' rather than cultivating new sales speaks volumes to your character. Where other, less reputable companies have boosted their marketing ploys, you have chosen to dig in and do the right thing. Again, I say 'thank you' and consider me a loyal customer and an honest reference for future customers.

[Jay]

Shnookie,

Did you have any luck with Shell Valley? I am still at a stand still. My engine on the stand and no headers. If you have any new news could you drop me a line. I need to do something, I can not stand looking at all that money and effort sitting in a pile.

Thanks

Jay

[KSTREHL]

shnookie,

I am in the same boat you are. I am also trying to complete a RUCC kit that has been under assembly for about a year and a half. I ordered the kit in 99 and took delivery on July 4th, 2000. After arriving at Roger's shop (13 hours of driving) I found that only a little over half of the kit was present. I accepted the kit at theat time but demanded an IOU for the outstanding pieces, it took many months to collect the remainder. At this point I have everything except the headers which have been on order for 14 months. Roger does return my calls, but as of yet will not give me any date for completion. Of course, my car is only collecting dust while I wait for headers. At this point I am willing to wait a little longer but am considering alternatives as we speak.

I don't have any info that will help you out directly but that's my 2 cents worth from a fellow RUCC owner.

[Tony Ripepi]

Hi Guys,

Sorry to hear about your troubles with RUCC. If I were you I would tell them to send you money and turn to the custom header manufacturers.

Sanderson Headers www.sandersonheaders.com is one that comes from The Good Guys Calender or any of the Hot rod shops closer to you would probably work( Look for references form local custom builders). The real issue is for the fabricator to take measurements form your engine to your side pipes to ensure that the proper alignment of the pipes is maintained (Parallel to the body with sufficient clearance for heat dissipation) and you get the clearances around the foot boxes, steering shaft, starter, frame etc. set up correctly.

The Sanderson site gives you some idea of what to look for in a Special built custom header it is a very good web site.

It may be more money but, you will get a custom header built to your specific car. If you ceramic coat the header after they are built it becomes a one time deal and you are done. You may even try to get the specs from RUCC.

The other point is by putting the arm on RUCC for cash with an alternative in hand it may force the issue.

Leverage is only achieved with alternatives.

Best Regards,

Tony R.

[Larry Hills]

KSTREHL, there are header kits on the market. Hedman makes a kit for SB Chevy. Check with www.jegs.com or www.summitracing.com. The kit has flanges, pipes & a collector.
Good luck.

[shnookie]

I also have been in constant touch with Roger for the past 4 weeks. He seems to be giving it his best effort to catch up. I have taken a wait and see attitude and will keep it until the end of Feb. I want to start working on the car again in March and if I don't get headers by the end of Feb. I will start to look for alternatives. I really want to have the car rolling by summer. (at least in primer). I haven't seen any parts,but he says it will be a couple of weeks. I sure hope so.