Cal epa has gone too f&f*$ far.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by lippy

The article I cited is from March 2013, but that doesn't change the fact (from the census) that, as a trend, over a period of years (not just one), people and businesses have moved from CA for several clear reasons, including high costs and regulation.

You cited six links. The one from 9-10 months ago (which is based research that is even older) states "Over the past two decades, a net 3.4 million people have moved out of California for other states. But contrary to conservative lore, there has been no millionaires' march to Texas or other states with no income tax. In fact, since 2005 California has experienced a net in-migration of households earning more than $200,000, according to the U.S. Census's American Community Survey."

Have you seen a chart of the CA population? It's a direct line upwards exponentially. We're the most populous state. People will come and go all the time. But the fact of the matter is that we continue to grow. From 2010-2012, we grew 2.1%. The USA grew 1.7% in total.

[RodKnock]

According to the professor that the author, Allysia Finley, quotes, "Part of California's dysfunction, he says, stems from state and local government restrictions on development. These policies have artificially limited housing supply and put a premium on real estate in coastal regions."

Yes, California is limiting growth to protect its environment. In fact, the article concedes "that such places (example Indy) will have a hard time eclipsing California or Texas because they're not as well endowed by nature." So, do we limit growth to protect our environment? Yes.

Personally, I have no issue with folks that want to move to states with less taxes, like Nevada, Florida, etc. Less traffic, better air quality and a probable reduction in the amount of angry people that don't like being here.

[RodKnock]

BTW, Allysia Finley lives in NY and writes extensively on California. Ironic that NY just was just eclipsed by Florida as the 3rd most populous state. Yet, I didn't see anything written by her about that topic.

[lippy]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Have you seen a chart of the CA population? It's a direct line upwards exponentially. We're the most populous state. People will come and go all the time. But the fact of the matter is that we continue to grow. From 2010-2012, we grew 2.1%. The USA grew 1.7% in total.

First, CA population is not growing exponentially or anywhere near it. Second, domestic migration has been negative in CA in most years, and in aggregate, for the past two decades. That has been offset by foreign migration (including illegal). But of people that move from state to state, more people are moving out of CA than in. That is according to the US Census, so I count it as a fact. Enough of this, and more about the original point of the thread.

[PANAVIA]

will follow up.

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

You cited six links. The one from 9-10 months ago (which is based research that is even older) states "Over the past two decades, a net 3.4 million people have moved out of California for other states. But contrary to conservative lore, there has been no millionaires' march to Texas or other states with no income tax. In fact, since 2005 California has experienced a net in-migration of households earning more than $200,000, according to the U.S. Census's American Community Survey."

Have you seen a chart of the CA population? It's a direct line upwards exponentially. We're the most populous state. People will come and go all the time. But the fact of the matter is that we continue to grow. From 2010-2012, we grew 2.1%. The USA grew 1.7% in total.

California has become a whipping boy for a segment of our society .... you are ruining a good story with your damn facts....

[1985 CCX]

I love California but if it means I am in an electric car I would avoid moving there. Already a poor place to do business, chemical that is, MFG is a solid base for the economy and I know of business leaving CA because of the red tape.

I know the owner is a well off guy 'millionaire' so at least one is moving to TX....
He makes stuff so maybe its the liberals staying.........

Vote.........

[RodKnock]

Yes, we have lost a net of 3.4 Million CA residents (using Lippy's #'s) over 20 years to various other states like TX, AZ, OR, NV, etc. due to the CA economy, regulations, high taxes, etc. The migration rate has slowed too. But, we've also had three major recessions in those 20 years, including the biggee in 2008-2009, which greatly affected CA and we're also attempting to protect our environment and clean our air.

CA is the most populus state at roughly 38 Million residents, so less than 10% have left since 1990. Not great, but it doesn't seem like a BFD to me. Our state continues to grow with foreign migration, just like ALL our families came from somewhere else, our air is cleaning up, the enviroment is getting protected and they're predicting a big budget surplus for this fiscal year. The future looks bright to me.

In the last election (2013), the City of Sonoma (wine country) did not pass a hotel limitation measure, so Californians are not all about anti-growth.

CA can't grow forever and CA is far from perfect. We will run out of space. Other states have lots of space. So, you can see the glass as half-empty or half-full. I choose to see it as half-full.

[OnyxRider]

Well I had my laugh of the day reading this thread. I would say most of you guys are right in your opinions and a little wrong thrown in.

I use to have in my profile east coast and west coast so here goes my two cents.

Many large businesses that have left Cali have moved to other countries because the cost of doing business(manufacture..etc..) is cheaper.

I enjoy all that our states offer us. Being born in Connecticut I couldn't image no springtime or fall when the leaves change.

If someone has accurate figures please post but to me the segment of population that has increased the most in California for the last 20 years has been the biggest drain for the state.

And to original poster did you ask the company specifically what the law was to prevent shipment? Was it CARB?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by OnyxRider

If someone has accurate figures please post but to me the segment of population that has increased the most in California for the last 20 years has been the biggest drain for the state.

That may or may not be true, I don't have those figures at my fingertips, but since 2005, California has experienced a net in-migration of households earning more than $200,000, according to the U.S. Census's American Community Survey.

OTOH, maybe those making $200K or more are the "leaches" of our CA population.

I know we're getting far afoot here, but whatever happened to the meaning of the quote carved on the Statue of Liberty?

“Give us your tired, your poor, your hungry, your huddled masses yearning to be free....”

So, Steve (PANAVIA) did you find out if you can order a non-CARB approved crate engine yet?

[PANAVIA]

I just got off the phone with Summit/Atech -and C.A.R.B.

It was a Demand Letter / Notification by C.A.R.B in late November that demanded Summit ( and others ) to not sell anything in certain categories to CA residents or face stiff fines (thousands of dollars) per transaction.

The two Categories that the supervisor told me about were Cold-Air-Intakes and Crate Engines , and apparently there are other items that they dont want sold without a CARB approval.

I added my shop ( Panavia.com ) to the list of complaints this AM and offered our assistance in any possible way.

He advised that Summits legal team was working on it and trying to reach a solution with C.A.R.B and would "re-open" the doors if they can...

In the mean time ; I called C.A.R.B in Sacramento this AM and spoke to Stephanie, ( very nice person ) and she could not pull up any information on this blockage from the CARB side, but said she would check it out and have someone call me, and if I did not hear anything in a day or so , - to call her back.

That is where it is; C.A.R.B. has the power to create quite a hassle ...dont they.

More news as it happens.

Steve






that

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by OnyxRider

And to original poster did you ask the company specifically what the law was to prevent shipment? Was it CARB?

CARB is the California Air Resources Board.

[PANAVIA]

California Air Resources Board ; Air Resources Board - Homepage

I spoke with a very nice person from there this PM, and he advised that indeed C.A.R.B. has issued a Cease-And-Desist order to several companies ( including summit ) citing what they believe is illegal activity.

it is ARB's opinion that these motors are not being sold with significant enough oversight, and are being installed in post 1965 vehicles.

CARB states that California 1966 to 1975 motor vehicles are still to maintain ALL applicable smog and emissions devices, - and although they are NOT inspected , you are REQUIRED to keep the SMOG systems intact and functional.

I have been forwarded to another office in CARB to register my complaint as a shop, and that they have gone too far with this action.

They could not supply me a copy of the Cease-And-Desist' as it is an ongoing CRIMINAL investigation.

More News As it happens ..... .. . . . .!

Steve

[Bernica]

Around here, we just call them the "Smog Nazis" along with AQMD. They rule and govern under Administrative Law I believe, so they don't need to poll any of us before enacting their rulings. What did Pelosi say a few weeks ago? "Just embrace the suck"! Nice!

[ACademic]

Originally Posted by PANAVIA

CARB states that California 1966 to 1975 motor vehicles are still to maintain ALL applicable smog and emissions devices, - and although they are NOT inspected , you are REQUIRED to keep the SMOG systems intact and functional.

So rather than enforce the existing laws, far easier politically to tell manufacturers and suppliers to stop selling their wares in CA than to pizz off hundreds of thousands of residents and force them thru annual inspections. That's probably the honest truth. And, ironically, SEMA is headquartered in CA but obviously has little to no political power over Sacramento's elite.

[PANAVIA]

The implications are completely cosmonautical.-- I even tried to bring up Rons GT40 issue with the documentation is incorrect for 1966 and how to approach that, the response was less than enthusiastic.

Glad we have EROD motors, but that is only a partial solution.

Steve

[Bernica]

And you wonder why so many of the boat builders, painters, platers and others have moved just over the boarder to Arizona!

[PANAVIA]

if you look, also there are many many shops and groups moving to AZ and NV....

tough deal to be a Californian in 2014...

Steve

[Bernica]

Hitting all my hot buttons on this.
A good friend and engine builder for Spint Car and blown alcohol drag boats bought a machine shop in the LA area. Borrowed up to his A$$ to buy a machine shop that has been around for 50 or 60 years. Then the EPA and AQMD showed up and told him he had to clean the entire site, including costs to neighboring sites. Cost and fines were more than the property was worth, so he had to walk. He had only been there 2 or 3 years. I believe he went to AZ too.

[MaSnaka]

I want to add to this conversation although it does not apply to the OP. A small business that does powder coating rented a 3000 sf industrial space from us in Shasta County. Moved his equipment in and did some tenant improvement work to the space. Was told he needed a special use permit in order to bring a gas line into the space for his oven. The county and AQMD wanted over $4,000 in fees and would not be able to approve the permit for at least 4 months. They also wanted to inspect the other tenants for permits. That pretty much killed his operation in our building. We had to let him walk.
John