Kirkham Cobra's

[hvacman]

I really like the appearance of the Kirkham Cobra but haven't known anyone that owns one. Any feedback I can get on this model, quality, dealer respones etc would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
hvacman

[Bud Man]

Product: Exquisite

People: Great

Bud Man (KMP 142)

[B L & sons]

Rick
go to search cc at top right side of this page enter KMP and preform a search you will find many theads on them and there car I understand that you will not find better people or there cars.One of the best made anywhere.
Regards
Bill

[Mike Viney]

Sorry to add a note of caution!!

Materials throughout very good but....

Chassis powder coating definitely not up to Western standards and places with no coating at all! It will be necessary to hand paint all the chassis that can be seen

Machining on castings (Suspension uprights) not accurate or consistent Requires a lot of reworking.

Rear hub pins not sized correctly for interefence fit

Front hub swivel joints poor slack fit (not shimmable)

Plating on rear hubs causes fit/ problems

Surprised that there was any problem with machining but have been equally surprised with the poor quality of the intake manifold casting from Dove.

No one would accept expensive parts from a regular car manufacturer that had to be sent to a machine shop to get surfaces trued up! Anyone who had modest engineering skills would have struggled to get the suspension assembled to high fit quality.

Otherwise OK and very pleased with the standard of the body...getting close to dropping the engine in.

Mike Viney

[David Kirkham]

Mike,

Thank you for the kind words on the quality of the materials we use. We do our best to select the best materials we can for strength and long life.

Let me be the first to say I am sorry if there is ANYTHING wrong with your car or any of the parts you received from us. I certainly appreciate your willingness to share your observations with everyone. I think the only way anyone can make a fair choice is to find out about everyone's experiences and how they were treated. I feel by and large most people in this industry are treated fairly by the manufacturers and we certainly hope all of our customers are happy with us.

Due to the great separation of miles and the little pond between us, I think I may have lost something in the translation of your post. I am constantly striving to make our cars better and if there is any problem I want to fix it. Unfortunately, sometimes the first you hear of a problem is from a customer. We don't want our customers to have to undergo any of the dreaded "beta" testing.

Would you be so kind to explain a few things to me I did not understand so I can do my best to correct them.

Powder coating: Appropriate phone calls have been made to Poland. I expect there won't be any further problems. Running a company remote-control on the other side of the planet has it's challenges.

Upright castings: What sort of machining problems did you have and how did you solve them? Currently, we don't use any castings for our uprights. We use forgings. The front is a steel forging and the rear is an aluminum forging. If you have a casting, it may not have come from us. Was your problem with the front or the rear uprights?

Generally speaking, the suspension on the car is rather difficult to put together. Over the years we have sold many suspensions and suspension parts to hundreds of customers. Unfortunately, some customers don't know the proper techniques or have the proper tools to assemble the parts together and we have had "defective" parts returned only to find on closer inspection the parts were actually destroyed by the customer. We replaced them nevertheless. We even had "defective" parts returned to us by a well known restorer which had been inadvertently (I am sure) destroyed by a heavy-handed mechanic.

Please understand I am in no way intimating you are not the qualified mechanic I am sure you are. Most who post on this site are true enthusiasts with gasoline running in the veins and wrenches in their hands. I state the above as more of an overview of the complicated process of putting the car together correctly.

Nevertheless, I do not offer any excuses. If you received parts which were not satisfactory, we will replace them--no questions asked. You may go through Gerry Hawkridge, or you are welcome to call us or drop us a line direct. My e-mail is davidkirkham@attbi.com

Shop number is 801.377.8224

Rear hub pins not sized correctly: I am not sure what a rear hub pin is. Would you be so kind as to explain so I can fully understand the problem and find a remedy.

Front hub swivel joints: I believe you are talking about the upper and lower ball joints. The original car had a cup and ball arrangement--which was prone to breakage. The upper race was a very thin piece of metal and the wear characteristics were terrible. Many ball-pins actually pulled through the upper race. I think it was sort of an engineering mistake to retain the same ball joint from the 289 car and then to use it in the 427 car. As you are aware, the 289 is a leaf-spring car and the forces on the lower ball joint push the ball into the lower cup where there is no chance for catastrophic failure. As the 427 is a coil spring car with the coil-over spring pushing against the lower control arm, the forces are exactly reversed--wanting to pull the ball joint through the cut in the upper race where there is no support. Several balls pulled through the upper race on original 427 cars.

The captured bearing replacement in our car has been tested and used for more than 10 years now on hundreds of original and our own cars. We ran a static test on the pull-out strength of our ball pin and bearing arrangement--17,000 lbs.! We have had people accidentally run them dry and all they did was clank around on the destroyed ball--but none of them have ever pulled through. We are willing to sacrifice a minute amount of play for safety. Nevertheless, we are always interested in better ways of doing things. If you have any suggestions on how we can improve the car (or the bearings) we are most willing to listen.

Plating on rear hubs: What kind of fit problems did you have? How can we help you to fix the problems? All of our hubs are black-oxide coated for the very reason you mention—fit problems. Black oxide does not alter the dimensions of the part--which is why we use it. Because there is no dimensional change in the parts, we are able to plate the entire hub, shaft and all, to give it protection against corrosion.

Now, we are not perfect and neither are our parts—but we really try our best to get them that way. Just last week one of our machinists was very proud of the fact he was able to hold the flatness of one of our brake rotors to 0.001” over 11.25 inches! Even today, our lathe operator was holding the tolerance of +/- 0.0002” on our front spindles. He was hand-sanding the parts to ensure every one was perfect. Perhaps you got a bad part that slipped through or I was dreaming about hot-lapping at Willow Springs when I should have been looking at the micrometer as your part passed by.

I see you are about to put the engine in the car. Are there any parts we make I could send you to help make your car more correct or to help finish off the engine? I would be happy to send them to you free of charge to help make up for the headaches you have had.

Oil remote brackets, fuel logs, cold-air boxes, oil puke tanks, air cleaners? What can I help with? I am so sorry you have some bum parts and you have to paint your chassis—bummer deal. How can I help you feel better?

Thank you very much for the kind words on the body. I spent many years of my life making that the best I could. I hope we get better making them every day. As the body is finished, I will now turn more of my attention to the machined parts…

David

[RickLee]

HVAC Man
David Kirkhams response is really typical of the way these guys take care of us as customers. They really love what they produce and are proud of the quality and workmanship and I can tell you it shows on KMP162....... BTW it is finished.

I have been waiting for a sunny day here in Utah to take some pictures that give justice to it all. I'll post a thread on the car.

I haven't experienced ANY of the mentioned difficulties although when screwing up the the carpet on the tunnel for the third time I punched a metal parts bin in the Kirkhams shop ( a week later during a physical, I admitted this to my Doctor who promptly spotted the fracture in an xray)

Needless to say Tom and David are great and they really stand behind what they produce.......As a builder I can attest that there is always a simpler and better way of doing some things and that there is no substitute for know how and experience. You just cant Gorrilla things..............after all its not a Chevy.

Rick Lee

[xlr8or]

David your reply to Mike was outstanding. It is obvious that your passion for these cars is intense. You are a fine example of what customer service is all about.
Whether it is a $50 part or a $50,000 part, a company that stands behind it's products like that is a company that has the most loyal customers that come back again and again.
I wish you continued success.

Scott

[Mike Viney]

David,

Thanks for the response and I'll be sending you some e mailed pictures of the problem areas.

The assembly of the suspension with one exception is not difficult at all and all the components are made of very high quality materials. Colleagues with specialist knowledge of materials such as those used in gas turbine engines were quite impressed!!

The exception was the pin that connects the bottom of the rear hub to the lower wish bone. Shaft was very tight going through hub and bearings. The bearings could have been eased with a reamer had the shaft been a satisfactory fit in the hub. Anyway problem solved.

The real problem came to light when fitting the brake callipers. The brake rotors ended tight against the calliper and skewed. Now I'm well used to adding shims between calliper and hub to centralise a calliper but not having to remove material. No big deal to correct but unexpected. A check with my digit mike showed the inaccuracies and inconsistancies between the hubs, and indeed the callipers.

I'm aware of the mods to the front supension ball joints and I was surprised that the joint was so slack and uneaven in friction when rotated in an almost dry state. Usually ball joints are on the stiff side, at least all the ones I've replaced on Jags have been.

There is powder coating and powder coating. It doesn't look like a primer coating was applied first and the l mat coat that was applied is wafer thin and missing here and there. My XK120 chassis which a small local company blasted and coated is sat in the bay next to the Kirkham and there is no comparison with the two jobs...

As a Professional Engineer who has been playing with engines and restoring Jag XKs for years I feel I am probably towards the upper range in terms of expertise in assembling cars to a high level of quality. Goodness knows the Jag parts are not available to fine tolerances so my expectations were not those of a Ferrari Formula 1 engineer!. My workshop is well equipped with lathe, press, and a fine range of hand tools.

Anyway I'm very very pleased with everything else and the quality of the body is superb. Apart from the powder coating the other problems are not at all with quality of materials,only a drop off in machining accuracy and perhaps mine is a one off.

You should always judge a business by how it reacts when things go wrong and I can say I am impressed and hope to visit you in June.

All the best,

Mike Viney

[hvacman]

I'd like to thank all those that replied to my post about the Kirkham Cobra's. Apparently they are of high quality and more importantly the owners are of very high integrity.

Thank You,
HVACMAN

[bdriver]

David,

Any update on what Mike Viney outlines?

Bill

[mrmustang]

Rick,

While I do not own a Kirkham at this time, I have followed the company since it's inception. I can tell you as an impartial observer that their business practices are second to none. As you have seen above, David Kirkham stands behind his cars (as does the rest of his family operation). If and when my financial status changes, I most certainly will be giving the Kirkhams my business.


Sincerely,


Bill S.
Owner: Cobrapromotions.net

[dscott]

This is the first time I've read this thread but I am so impressed with David's response. It would have been just as easy to take the opposite approach and I'm really surprised that some of the members didn't take this guys head off. If there ever was someone to look up to on how to run a business it would be the Kirkhams. I am humbled and hope to achieve their level of customer support with my new venture.
Don

[The Dreamer]

hvacman,

If you are in the DC Metro area, the Capitial Area Cobra Club will have no less than three new Kirkhams by the middle of this year. You can probably keeps tabs by monitoring the Club Website . I'm sure none of the Kirkham owners will be quiet when any event with the car happens (I know I will not).

[weekendwarrior]

Yes, David's replies on this site was one of the main reasons I bought a Kirkham.

Gary

[tcolley1]

If any of the other manufacturers are monitoring this page...then they should certainly take notes on how to handle customers questions and problems, perceived or real in the same manner as David Kirkham.

David's attention to detail, willingness to satisfy existing customers and listening to the ideas of prospective customers as to their wants, desires and needs is unparalled in the Cobra community.

I do not own a Kirkham but another popular brand, however when I am financially able to afford one, I am ordering a FIA Hybird from David.

David Kirkham as a manufacturer, businessman and enthusist and has really brought the quality, pride of ownership and integrity back into this industry in my humble opinion.

Terry C.

[ENTDOC]

HVACMAN,do your self a favor and go ahead a buy a Kirkham;expensive yes but the best quaility and outstanding service make this the best choice in my opinion.I am not prone to inflated hyperbole or cheerleading for a company just because I have that brand.I believe a company should earn your buisness and more importantly earn your repeat buisness.They have gone far beyond my expectations in making right some issues I had with my car.I actually was asking for nothing, but David insisted on sending me a very expensive optional part so as to assure a happy customer.If you get the best from the beginning you will never be dissapointed. chuck smith

[RaceDeck]

Well said David!.... I do business with with hundreds of companies and I can tell you that the Kirkhams are in a league of their own....In their craft, in the way they run their business and in the way they stand behind their product...I think you will find 100's of posts that are positive towards the Kirkham...The MV post is a rarity and Obviously not one that I think has any merit...

BUY A KIRKHAM!

[Bud Man]

David is going to get a BIG head!!!

How about Tommy and Stevie?!!!!!!!!!

Everyone there is GREAT!

Sincerely,

Yours (first) in Aluminium Polish Bodied, Mormon Engineered and Lovingly Rendered Replicas of You Know What.......

Bud

[bdriver]

Well, Intercity Transport surprised me a little just yesterday (Friday)....there is now a new addition to the Va Chapter...

Take a look at my gallery....

hvacman...I would be more than happy to discuss my Cobra selection adventure... As you can see, I ended up with one incredible car...and more...have moved into a group of folks who appreciate the same car no matter what the form.

Bill

[ToyCollector]

Your KMP looks fantastic. Best of luck on finishing the build!