CONSUMER FORUM GUIDELINES

[John McMahon]

If you plan on posting about supplier and/or a manufacturer(s) performance, please adhere to the following guidelines:

- Any Club Cobra member can start a thread on any given company / supplier. PLEASE DO NOT DUPLICATE OR START ADDITIONAL THREADS ON THE SAME COMPANY. ALL COMMENTS SHOULD BE RESTRICTED TO A SINGLE THREAD. This will help all members froma historical perspective.

- You may report on either good performance or bad performance.

- When creating a new thread, please include the company's phone number, P.O. Address and website address if you know them. (That way, if they are good source, then everybody else can contact them ASAP!!!!)

- It is recommended that you name the subject of the thread with the Supplier Company or Manufacturer's name and not a rude comment. This will make it easier to retrieve for future posts or forwarding.

- Input to the thread should state the facts only!!!! No emotional outbursts or name calling. Stick to the facts and try to be as diplomatic as possible. IF THE POST GETS EXTEMELY RUDE, THE CONTENTS MAY BE EDITED WITH MINIMAL IMPACT TO THE EMOTIONAL TONE OF THE POST.

- We would like to take these threads and periodically E-mail them to those respective companies. If the company does not have Email, then a printout can be mailed.

Suppliers and manufacturers are encouraged to join Club Cobra and post information regarding the issues of performance on the thread which bears their name.

We anticipate this will be a useful forum, and are confident that our membership will adhere to these "rules of engagement". This forum is not intended to bash any supplier or manufacturer. Instead, we wish to make this a venue with which:

A) The consumer can voice their concerns and warn others of potential problems they may encounter with the company.

B) The supplier/manufacturer can understand, based on these threads, exactly where they stand with their customer base in regards to customer satisfaction. They are then free to either contribute here on the forum or deal directly with the consumer via email or phone.

C) Considering the real-time nature of this bulletin board, it is impossible for us to review messages or confirm the validity of information posted. Please remember that we are not responsible for any messages posted. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message, and are not responsible for the contents of any message. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Club Cobra. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email. We have the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary. This is a manual process, however, so please realize that we may not be able to remove or edit particular messages immediately.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by Club Cobra.

D) By posting a concern or issue to the Consumer Watch Forum on Club Cobra, you are agreeing by use of this service, that you do not NOW or intend on retaining a lawyer for the sole purpose of filing a lawsuit against a business, Cobra manufacturer or builder.

Club Cobra does nothing more than act as an intermediary voluntarily between the two parties and may, at any time, cease to be involved in the matter.

Club Cobra cannot respond to each and every post made in the Consumer Watch. If you require an immediate response or need help, please email the Consumer Watch moderator directly. The moderator will become involved in the post only if it is requested or deemed necessary in order to hear both sides of the issue.

Club Cobra and its moderators and administrators are not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we reserve the right to delete any message for any or no reason whatsoever. You (person posting the message)remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold harmless Club Cobra (and any owners of this BB) and their agents with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s).

We also reserve the right to reveal your identity (or whatever information we know about you) in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any message posted by you.

Brent Mills
Club Cobra

SOME INPUT FROM OUR MEMBERS.....

Kputz
CC Member
Registered on 06-17-1999
(Total posts: 79)
Michigan posted 09-20-1999 11:51 AM
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Excellent advice from both posts. Please, keep in mind that a difference in taste is one thing...blatant disregard of service or product is something quite different. As a consumer I am slow to anger and am willing to give a company the benefit of the doubt regarding disputes. But there is never a good reason for a company to not take steps to reasonably satisfy a customer wronged. It is often this arrogance that is the firm's undoing. A simple call back, an offer to reimburse (less shipping), an attempt to find an alternative part, is often the difference in a future customer and a bad advertisement.
IP: Logged

Zderf
CC Member
Registered on 06-09-99
(Total posts: 134)
Woodinville, WA posted 10-11-1999 07:12 AM
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I thought it important to bring this thread back to the top based on the "flurry" that just surfaced. And I admit, I have no idea what's up with some historical baggage being "rechecked" here. Frankly, I really don't want to know.
I am, however, in total agreement with John that we must preserve the integrity of this particular Forum if it is to be considered a valid tool for our membership and suppliers.

This particular member would like to thank all in advance for following these "Rules Of Engagement". They are specific, reasonable, and must be observed to make this Forum meaningful.

Respectfully,

Zderf





[This message has been edited by John McMahon (edited 11-13-2000).]

[This message has been edited by John McMahon (edited 12-25-2000).]

[John McMahon]

To All Members....

Please limit your postings in the Consumer Watch for for issues directly related to Cobra Manufacturers or Suppliers.

Don't forget, we don't want just the BAD STUFF...we also want to hear the PRAISES that you have for a specific business too!!!!

Questions regarding other members experiences with manufacturers will now move to a new Forum that I asked Brent to create called:

"Member FAQs and information about Cobra Manufacturers"

Over the next week or so, I will take these issues and move them from the Consumer Watch to the FAQ section.

This is all being done to help members find the info they need faster!!!! It will also help prevent repetitve posts.

Thanks and Happy Motoring!

JM

Thanks,

The management




[This message has been edited by John McMahon (edited 12-09-2000).]

[John McMahon]

*** COPIED FROM THE "PLEASE POST ALL RESOLUTIONS" topic - JM ************

Author Topic: Please Post ALL PROBLEM RESOLUTIONS!!!!!
John McMahon
CC Member/Admin
Registered on 01-24-99
(Total posts: 1662)
Somerset, NJ, USA
(Cobra Make, Engine: Contemporary 289FIA, Ford 351W) posted 11-24-2000 09:28 AM
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Folks,
As some members have requested (and it makes perfect sense), please post here or email to me the final resolution to any ans all problems posted to the Consumer Watch Forum

Based on the outcome, The Consumer Moderator will then make a statement like, PROBLEM RESOLVED, MATTER CLOSED, CASE CLOSED and then the thread will be LOCKED. Any new issues or a re-emergence of a previously closed issue will require a new thread.

For all those that have resolutions that have not posted, please send to me.

Folks have asked if, once the matter is resolved should we leave the thread for all to see on the Consumer Forum, I think it makes perfect sense to leave it there for all to see. By doing so it shows:

A) How the issue was resolved
B) How long it took for the company to respond initially and how the to resolve the matter entirely
C) What kind of negotiation it took
D) Was the negotiation controlled and initiated by the customer or the business in question
E) It keeps the negotiation honest between the two parties by posting it here. This can only be done by keeping it factual and try to keep your emotions to a minimum.

It also shows the power of a united force of consumers and the impact that they can have in a very focused industry. Its not a question of us versus them, but how can we resolve the issue in both parties interests.

I WILL LEAVE IT UP TO THE MEMBERSHIP OF CC TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THE THREAD SHOULD REMAIN ONCE RESOLVED OR REMOVED FROM THE FORUM.

JM

IP: 12.89.140.103

renaissance man
CC Member
Registered on 10-30-1999
(Total posts: 241)
Georgetown, TX. USA
(Cobra Make, Engine: SMC 460cj) posted 11-24-2000 09:35 AM
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Again, I'd like to express my interest in seeing these posts in reverse order, (most recent answer to the post listed first) so we don't have to sort through tons on replies. Case in point: My post to Consumer Watch on Motorsport Specialties for Compomotive Wheels. Lots of changes have taken place and the company is on the right track. Most people will take to heart the first few comments that they read. I think it is important that these comments be the most recent and up to date to give people the most information for an informed decision.
Regards,

Ren Man

IP: 216.141.39.29

John McMahon
CC Member/Admin
Registered on 01-24-99
(Total posts: 1662)
Somerset, NJ, USA
(Cobra Make, Engine: Contemporary 289FIA, Ford 351W) posted 11-24-2000 02:46 PM
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Ren,
I agree, it would make it easier to read the most recent post, BUT, I think you would then lose the chronological order of how the issues played out.

Personally, I think it reads much easier as it is now for anyone just getting into Cobras and looking for a company to read or printout the material and review it much like a book...you don't put the last chapter first.

If folks are familiar with the thread, they can always max to the bottom to get the most current answer.

Just my thoughts, what do you think?

JM


IP: 12.89.139.44

4RE KLR
CC Member
Registered on 02-27-2000
(Total posts: 212)
IRVING, TEXAS USA
(Cobra Make, Engine: Classic Roadsters 302, Webers & Nitros FERRARI KILLER) posted 11-25-2000 06:09 AM
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John ,
I believe that the thread should be left on for all to read. The reason is that is the only way a new member can see just how much negotiations it took to resolve the matter. It also keeps the vendor on his toes to try harder. We (CC ) are a very large and very powerfull force to be dealt with if a supplier does not do as promised and / or paid. We should stay in mass because there are strenght in numbers.
You know very well that when you do get involved you hear from the vendor / supplier that it would be nice if this was not posted for all the world to see... You also know that because it is posted for all the world to see , it sometimes helps to a speedy resolution.

Time will eventually remove the thread from active statis if and when there are no more post being made to that particular thread. If you lock the thread it MAY prevent someone from going back to bring a past problem to the top when the settlement was not fullfilled as promised.

Just my .02

Steven E. Parks
Ferrari Killer

[This message has been edited by 4RE KLR (edited 11-26-2000).]

IP: 209.245.225.98

John McMahon
CC Member/Admin
Registered on 01-24-99
(Total posts: 1662)
Somerset, NJ, USA
(Cobra Make, Engine: Contemporary 289FIA, Ford 351W) posted 12-09-2000 07:43 AM
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*** COPIED FROM ANOTHER THREAD - JM ***
***************************************
Scott S
CC Member/Moderator
Registered on 01-24-99
(Total posts: 468)
Silverton, OR
(Cobra Make, Engine: Lone Star LS427 with 351w stroked to 427) posted 11-23-2000 10:34 AM
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About a year ago is when I became a particular interest to the Cobra community when Lone Star and I were in disagreement.
Lone Star and I both came to terms and I am satisfied with the outcome. Since then I have been informed that Lone Star has lost some business due to the various postings in the Consumer Watch forum because of the flame up between Cobra Country, Lone Star and myself.

My questions for the members are:

Is it fair to Lone Star or any other business to have the forum posts stay up after the problems have been resolved?

Should we consider the outcome of the disputes and if there has been no further complaints about the company remove the posts?

Should we consider a time certain after the problems have been resolved to remove the remarks?

What is really fair?

Scott S

IP: 4.41.232.78

Roscoe
CC Member
Registered on 03-02-2000
(Total posts: 282)
Fairfield, NJ, USA
(Cobra Make, Engine: A & C, 351W, Tremec) posted 11-23-2000 10:45 AM
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I think history is history and should be available when someone is researching manufacturers.
A decision is based on past history. If we deprive someone that information we may also be leading them into the Valley of the Shadow, so to speak.

You have to take all the facts and then make your mind up for yourself.

I assume that with the negative information in the archives there is also a message on the resolution of the matter, positive or otherwise.

Manufacturers and vendors must be aware that there is something out there keeping an eye on the way they conduct their business. If they have done something wrong they will have to live with it and make up for it. It is one of the few powers we, as consumers, have.

My 2 bits,
Roscoe

IP: 216.164.188.145

Roscoe
CC Member
Registered on 03-02-2000
(Total posts: 282)
Fairfield, NJ, USA
(Cobra Make, Engine: A & C, 351W, Tremec) posted 11-23-2000 10:49 AM
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One more thing on point:
When I was researching for a manufacturer I did some in depth background on the companies. One of them (and I will not mention them again...they have enough) had several law suits and a bankruptcy listed.

Because of this I did not go with them for my replica. As it turns out I have seen several posts here regarding severe problems, still unresolved, with them.

Nuff said,
Roscoe

IP: 216.164.188.145

BJGreen
CC Member
Registered on 05-16-99
(Total posts: 387)
Rowlett, Tx USA
(Cobra Make, Engine: CR with 427 Center Oiler) posted 11-23-2000 12:43 PM
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I'm inclined to agree with Roscoe. If they did it they did it. Fixing the problem is good, but does not cause the original difficult to disappear.
Having said that, if you are going to post your story about a problem you also assume the obligation to post any satisfactory resolution.

Seems like McMahan is doing a pretty good job keeping up with this sort of stuff anyway.

IP: 24.4.254.206

John McMahon
CC Member/Admin
Registered on 01-24-99
(Total posts: 1661)
Somerset, NJ, USA
(Cobra Make, Engine: Contemporary 289FIA, Ford 351W) posted 11-24-2000 08:50 AM
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Scott,
Its funny that you should mention this now. While driving to the family's house Thanksgiving Day, I was thinking about starting to post something is this regard like, PROBLEM RESOLVED, MATTER CLOSED, CASE CLOSED, something.

I will begin to follow up on this and make a new thread. For all those that have resolutions that have not posted, please send to me.

In the matter of leaving it out there, I think it makes perfect sense to leave it there for all to see. By doing so it shows:

A) How the issue was resolved
B) How long it took for the company to respond initially and how the to resolve the matter entirely
C) What kind of negotiation it took
D) Was the negotiation controlled and initiated by the customer or the business in question
E) It keeps the negotiation honest between the two parties by posting it here. This can only be done by keeping it factual and try to keep your emotions to a minimum.

It also shows the power of a united force of consumers and the impact that they can have in a very focused industry. Its not a question of us versus them, but how can we resolve the issue in both parties interests.

JM

IP: 12.89.140.103

Traveller
CC Member
Registered on 05-03-99
(Total posts: 234)
Tulsa, OK U.S.A.
(Cobra Make, Engine: ERA, Ford 428 SCJ) posted 11-24-2000 01:56 PM
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I think it all needs to stay, regardless of whether the dispute has been resolved or not.
I expect that every company will have a problem meeting customer requirements at one time or another. What I find informative is in how they deal with it.

A good company (my definitition) will work quickly to rectify an issue using a process that respects the customer.

A bad company (my definition as well) will drag a problem out, blame the customer and generally obfuscate responsibility. In the end he may conceed, but by then the customer probably forgot what the fight was about.

Closure to a dispute is certinly the goal but it's not necessarly the whole story.

I also want to know if the customer had to go to war to get it.

IP: 12.74.186.8

IP: 12.89.139.209

[John McMahon]

I am adding a note to the Consumer Forum Guidelines to state the following:

"If you are already retaining a lawyer for the purpose of filing a lawsuit against a business, Cobra manufacturer or builder, please do not bring the matter to the Consumer Watch Forum on Club Cobra, since it will be handled by the courts.

You gain nothing by addressing it here and may do nothing more than stir up the emotions of not only the members of this site, but any possible litigants in the matter.

You are more than welcome to post the issue and its resolution AFTER the courts have made their determination."

Thanks,

JM

[John McMahon]

TTT

[Jinx]

I thought it was simple ...just state the facts good or bad and report the out come .................sounds easy for me.......thanxs for all the advise ...butt as always with a grain of salt.........thanxs jinxs