Titles Unlimited

[Art Burtt]

I called Titles Unlimited and got a recorded message that they
are no longer in business due to a law change in their state??
What's that all about?

[Excaliber]

See FBI investigations concerning illegal titles. It's WAY more than just some "state" law there talking about!

Ernie

[duvi]

Has anyone heard of US Title Service?

They offer the same sort of service as Titles Unlimited. Are they for real or is it a scam?

[Randy Rosenberg]

Go search for a thread about Search Warrants under All Cobra Talk from a few months back...

Cheers,
Randy R...

[stengun]

Howdy,

Titles Unlimited are still in business. They do provide a legal service to alot of people who deal with/restore old cars. There are alot of old cars and trucks that are sitting around old barns that have not been tagged on over 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, and some for over 70 years.

Some of the cars' owners have been dead for so long that their grandchildren are even dead. The cars are not stolen, just old and abandoned w/out titles. So, this is where TU comes into play. Your not trying to do anything illegal, but you would like to restore/streetrod that old '28 Ford Model A that sitting behind Farmer Brown's run down old barn. Well, your out of luck, because noone has a title for it, rats!

Or do they?

Paul

[Bill Wells]

stengun...you say TU is still in business, but are they still doing COBRA replicas? or just other old cars ? last I heard was they were NOT doing Cobras , but dont really know. just curious as someone asked at a car show yesterday if they were, thought since you said they are still in business you might know re Cobras . bill

[mrmustang]

Folks, just as an FYI, the various state DMV offices do have a tendancy to read this web site.


Bill S.

[duvi]

Attorney General Lockyer Files Charges in Massive Vehicle Registration Fraud Case
False Title and Registration Documents Cost California Millions in Lost Tax Revenues

July 16, 2003
03-087
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
(916) 324-5500

(SACRAMENTO) – Attorney General Bill Lockyer today announced he has filed criminal charges against an Alabama man accused of providing fraudulent title and registration documents that are believed to have cost California more than $1 million in tax revenues and license fees over the past two years, and as much as $14 million since 1975.

"This scam operation provided false information that low-balled the value of antique, classic and specialty cars, allowing the owners to avoid paying millions of dollars in taxes and vehicle registration fees," Lockyer said. "Our joint investigation leads us to suspect between 20,000 and 70,000 vehicles have been fraudulently registered in California through similar schemes. At a time when the state is facing such a severe budget crisis, scams like this are especially egregious and will be prosecuted."

Richard Weaver, 54, of Birmingham, Ala., will be arraigned at 10:30 a.m. Thursday in Sacramento Superior Court, Department 8. In his complaint, the Attorney General charges Weaver with 18 counts of offering false bills of sale and vehicle registrations through his business, Titles Unlimited, which also does business as Pinson Valley Auto Sales. Weaver faces a maximum punishment of 14 years and four months.

The joint investigation was conducted by the Attorney General's Office, the Yolo County District Attorney's Office and the Sacramento Valley Hi-Tech Crimes Task Force, which includes attorneys, agents and officers from the Attorney General's Office and Sacramento County Sheriff Lou Blanas' office. Also assisting were the California Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) and the California Highway Patrol.

The investigation was launched in October 2001, when the Yolo County District Attorney's Office began looking into the fraudulent registration of a 2000 Superformance Cobra that had been titled in Alabama. Former Woodland police officer Terry Brown purchased the vehicle without an engine or transmission for $37,480. He installed a new Ford MotorSport 351/392 CID 430-horsepower engine, bringing the value of the completed vehicle to $51,358.

For a $200 fee, Brown filled out an application for a bill of sale with Titles Unlimited, doing business as Pinson Valley Auto Sales. Titles Unlimited registered Brown's vehicle in Alabama as a 1965 Ford Cobra convertible valued at $13,500, and then reconveyed title to Brown. Brown then used that document to fraudulently register his vehicle with the DMV. The Attorney General's Office prosecuted Brown, who pled guilty in April 2002 to making a false statement to the DMV. Brown was required to perform 80 hours of community service, correctly register his vehicle and pay $655 in registration fees and $2,375 in taxes.

According to the Attorney General's office, Weaver knew his bills of sale to California customers would be used to fraudulently register their vehicles. On the Titles Unlimited website, individuals are specifically told: "‘Price' is the same price as you wish to have on the papers back to you. Since in some states you may be required to pay sales tax on this price, be careful not to make it too high or too low."

Titles Unlimited customers also are instructed: "Take ONLY your registration, the letter from the issuing state that we send you stating that the registration IS YOUR TITLE, and the BILL OF SALE from OUR DEALER to you. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!!!"

The joint investigation found that 513 Titles Unlimited vehicles have been registered in California since 2000. The Titles Unlimited website states that the company has "processed over 30,000 automobile titles in the past 28 years." The Attorney General's office conservatively estimates that Titles Unlimited for the past 28 years has provided documentation for more than 4,000 cars registered in California.

As part of the investigation, the California Highway Patrol assisted in the service of search warrants on vehicles in Northern California that had been registered through Pinson Valley Auto Sales. Owners of 17 of the vehicles are expected to be granted immunity in exchange for their testimony regarding Titles Unlimited and Pinson Valley Auto Sales. They also will be required to legally re-register their vehicles and pay appropriate monetary penalties to the DMV

In addition, the investigation led to the identification of at least three other companies suspected of conducting similar operations. The state believes between 20,000 and 70,000 vehicles may have been registered in Californian using these fraudulent schemes.

# # # #
BACK

[duvi]

I think the above statement from the Attorny General shows that this type of title is not legal and that members that have registered thier vehicles using this method should contact thier DMV and register thier vehicles legaly before they receive a knock on the door followed by a large fine etc. I look forward to other members imput. I suspected all along it was a scam and am very glad that I didn't use their services.

[Roscoe]

I think the article says it's all about money! They are *****ing cause they didn't get the sales tax amounts. Anyway, TU did nothing wrong in my eyes. If CA goes after anyone it should be the OWNERS who tried to scam CA out of sales tax, not TU.

Follow the money,
Roscoe

[Great Asp]

Right on,

The owners wanted to keep the correct tax amount, instead of paying it to the state.

I personally steered many into doing the entire process with the state of Missouri (a pain in the butt to be sure), but no one will ever show up at their house to collect their title and plates either. The "process" with TU was okay, but as things go, TU gets the bad name because of owners not paying the full sales tax.

Eric

[Fox]

When it sounds too good to be true...Ignorance is bliss, right.

Yes you can follow the money. For CA it may be all about the lost $$s and crying over hard times. I think Roscoe is right, it's not like the lost tax monies went dollar for dollar into TU's pocket.

But lets not overlook the FRAUD and what looks like overt instructions to propagate it. As the likely knowing car owner passing on the false documents, that has got to be as serious as a heart attack, legally.

I personally would have a hard time believing some owner saying they didn't know, I am sure there is a few. But I'm confidant every TU customer will say "Honest your honor, I just didn't know...". To me that's where a significant amount of this crime lies too.

But jail time? I wouldn't wish that on anyone involved.

-John

[Randy Rosenberg]

Roscoe / Eric,

How many of the the 17 witnesses have you spoken with? What facts do you have that allow you to conclude that tax evation was the primary reason these folks used TU?

I've said before, and I'll say it again, STOP the false accusations!

I've spoken directly with almost all of the 17 witnesses, and the primary reason for using TU was to avoid the smog issue with a new engine, not to avoid taxes. If you read the inditment (sp?) thoroughly, you will see that the dates listed for each "infraction" are pre-2002 - IOW, before SB100 existed. Prior to SB100, there were very few options on how to title a new replica with a new engine in CA, and avoid the smog requirements. Yes, those listed in the inditment (sp?) are all SPF owners, and without going into specific reasons why, it is no surprise that most SPF owners install new "not smogable" engines (the most popular being a new stoked 351).

Those are the facts. If you did your homework before posting false accusations, then you would have learned this.

If you did further homework, then you would find that there are 100's of Cobra replica owners in CA who used TU to avoid the smog issue. However the state doesn't care much about smog offenders - there's no money in chasing smog offenders, but the AG feels that if there's one owner who went thru TU and paid lower then expected taxes, then there must be more. The AG is only following the money trail - it's a gamble on their end if they find more owners who didn't pay their full share of their taxes.

[Excaliber]

What ever an owners personal reasons, the State is baseing it's case on "taxes". And they do seem to have a "case". I do concur that in many of these cases it had more to do with getting the car "licensed" in some way rather than avoid taxes. But I would not rule out the "extra benefit" of paying lower taxes while there at it!

An accusation is just that, maybe it's false, maybe it aint. The good news is that many (most?) of the individuals will not be prosecuted as the case seems to hinge on a "bigger fish".

I suspect "taxes" are indeed a big part of this picture on an individual basis.

Ernie

[mr bruce]

If these folks were using TU to circumvent the emmisions , then they are in violation of FEDERAL LAW. They better hope some US attorney don't get a bug up his/her rear and go after them on the Federal charges.

[mr bruce]

And another thing. These TU registered cars are basically worthless. Try to sell one. Would you ,as a potential buyer want to get involved with the paperwork cluster*u*k?

[Excaliber]

I got the impression the owners COULD re-register their cars in Calif. Of course it will be a HUGE problem, but would it be "impossible"?

Ernie

[duvi]

The impression I got was that it is possible to register your car as long as you pay the correct tax etc. If you will be asked to explain why your 2003 or what ever year car is registered as 1965 etc. is another matter. But I think it would be prudent to aproach the DMV before they get in touch with you and a possible court appearence. Honesty is always the best policy.

[Randy Rosenberg]

Originally posted by Excaliber


I got the impression the owners COULD re-register their cars in Calif. Of course it will be a HUGE problem, but would it be "impossible"?

Ernie

Yes, under SB100 these cars can/will be re-titled - it is not difficult (a couple of trips the DMV, a trip the CHP and another to the BAR), and some have already gone thru this process. Those who have now have a 200x SPNC title meeting the smog requirements as detailed in SB100 - just as if it were never titled before. Unfortunately, those who have not must wait until Jan 2004 in order to acquire a sequence number. The provision of SB1578 allows for one to re-title a previously titled car under SB100 - this is the sole purpose of this amendment - to fix these kinds of incorrect titles.

[Roscoe]

Randy,
Don't get your tits in a wringer. I was not referring to the witnesses but to the State of CA who felt they were cheated out of money, not smog.

Second, I was not accusing anyone of anything but merely pointing out that TU is not the culprit. The owner of the car is the culprit who, the state says, beat them out of tax money.

Thirdly, you say that the AG followed the money. DID YOU READ THE END OF MY ORIGINAL POST???? IT SAID: "Follow the money!"

Back off and take a deep breath.
Roscoe