Engine builder scam

[coyled]

When the authorities are involved to this level, it's not because a competitor complained. This kind of stuff is usually no accident. Is it fraud? who knows and who cares, you can't get blood out of a turnip. The solution is this; when you buy a service for delivery later, use a visa. You can call your visa company up to 6 months later and they will reverse the charges. That way you don't get stuck. Scott

[Jim Wintz]

I am not sure what started the investigation by the Sheriffs Dept. I origianlly thought the same think, that an upset customer who had been waiting on his engine for ever was tired of the excuses and made a call. After all if all of the stories or excuses were real it would be real easy to find 15 to 20 people who had ordered something and never received it. When I first got the call from the Sheriffs Dept. that this was a potential scam or this company was a fraud it took almost 2 weeks to convince me, I thought there was no way. But after I was unable to verify some of the stories I was being told I started to believe the worst was possible and started seeing it from the other side.

Let me add a little bit of information that I was given that influenced me to present this as a potential scam or fraud. During the past year I have spoke with 5 different people at this company. The office person, the gentleman who ran the Ford dept., the gentleman who ran the Chevy dept., the driver of the delivery truck and the owner of the company. I was informed during the search by the Sheriffs dept. that this gentleman admitted that he was a one man show and never had anyone who worked for him. The cell phone number I had for the driver and some others were all with him at his shop. I spent most of my time talking with the gentleman who ran the Ford Dept. as I had ordered a Ford engine. When I canceled my order the owner accused me of cancelling my order only to order a new engine from the gentleman who ran the Ford Dept. As I was then informed that he had quit and was starting his one buisness. As stated above, I am led to believe that all of these people I have talked with are all the same person. This week I found out that the gentleman who supposedly ran the Ford Dept. really does exist, except he had never worked for this company. However he said he had done work for him in the past but had not had any dealings with him for quite awhile. Now the owner of this company has been using this guys name to sell Ford engines, heck I ordered a custom package put together as a special by this guy who I find out now never worked for this company. This and other stories that are coming to light as lies is what led me to believe this is either set up as a potential scam or a buisness operating on the basis of fraud and lies. This may not be an all out scam, but it sure appears to be a little more then a legit buisness that is down on their luck or going through hard times. This seems to be a well thought out operation or plan from what I can tell. I have worked with other companies going through rough or hard times and this sure seems like something completely different.

Jim

[Excaliber]

Reminds me of a fellow named "Tucker", his car by the same name. After he was cleared of "fraud" charges it was to late, the damage had been done, he was ruined. OK, maybe it's different with this engine builder,,,,,,,,,,maybe. Sounds like it's "to late" no matter how it goes down for him now.

Ernie

[SAXYBIKER]

Jim - I haven't received your email. Did you email my personal address or through this list? I'd like to exchange some information with you that may help us both to get what we want - a refund or an engine. It matters not to me either way!

As to how I heard about this eforum, I just found it the other day, then as I was gathering information to initiate my own consumer complaint, I found this post.

I guess the way I feel about it is this - the honest businessman communicates with his customers, he doesn't hide! Like yourself, I have been trying to simply get some answers, good or bad. Kent could help his case DRAMATICALLY by not hiding. He knows my home phone, my cell phone, and both have voice mail! There are a lot of things that have been omitted from this story. For instance, did you know that he supposedly had injured his back when unloading an engine in Dayton Ohio? And that his father had died a few months ago and that the father was the owner of "Dragboys" and my engine was supposedly tied up in probate? There is a lot more to this story than just a "good businessman falling on hard times". I believe this guy could do himself a lot of good by at least calling his customers and telling the TRUTH rather than hiding behind the "my attorney told me not to call anyone" excuse. And who IS this other guy that's supposed to be his "friend"? I would invite him to tell his friend that if some of us don't start to get some answers soon, that the "locals" will be the least of his problems. There are other issues here that I won't tip my hand to right now, but the fact is it could all be avoided by being honest and straight.

Sorry to ramble, but I am STEAMED! My wife ordered this engine a long time ago and if it had been me it wouldn't be so bad, but this guy (I can't call him a man) messed with my family. If anyone can help me, I'd really appreciate it!

Allen

[Jim Wintz]

Allen,'

I e-mailed you again through this web site, if you do not receive it please let me know.

Well your story is like most others that I have heard or been in cantact with. Money sent, engine ordered, months and months of excuses and no engine or product ever being delivered.

Here is the latest information that I know or have an understanding to the best of my knowledge. As I stated earlier I am doing my best to tell everyone what I know or understand and not point anymore fingers or place blame or accuse anyone of anything. I understand how this can easily be seen from both sides as I have seen it from both sides and still have a hard time believing it sometimes. But this is how this buisness appears to operate.

Adds are placed (which are still running as of this weeks traders). Coversations take place and you becaome very familiar with this company and very comfortable sending them your money for your engine. You send you money, they deposite and live off of it, you get updated over the next several months. It seems there are several excuses during the build why it is delayed. After you are delayed as long as they feel they can, your engine is completed and loaded on the truck for delivery. During the delivery process there again is a string of unfortunate delays and problems. Most of the time you feel sorry for them because of the problems they are having and wish them luck. Finally you start to realize that you are not going to see your product and either push real hard for a refund or write it off as a lesson learned. For me the order process took almost 2 months for several reasons. They actually gave me a 5% discount on my order since the order was delayed so long. The engine build ran from February through mid June. Finally my engine was done on on the delivery truck around the June time frame. Delivery delays included the holidays, a truck accident, the wrong parts being ordered, and finally put together wrong and blew up the engine on the truck. I have never receiced anything or been able to verify any of these stories I have been told during this process.

Somethings I have learned recently are as follows.
The owner is real and he really has this buisness set up. There has been a handfull of people who have actually received an engine from him, as of now I know of 3, of which one had their engine bust as soon as it was turned over. The engine was returned to be fixed and he has never gotten it back. There have been a few people who have pushed for a refund and actually received it. However most everyone else is out money in the range of $2,200 upto $10,000 from some individuals I have been talking with. I have talked with people that have been working on getting their product from him for 3 years and as of today are still out money with no product returned. I think he was or thinks he is a real high tech engine builder, sells his product, strings people along as long as possible, issues refunds when he is forced into it, then after this has played this out as long as possible he moves on, and most people write it off as a lesson learrned.

Paul (Marklynntax) You did some investigating and turned up some good valid information and points. Is there anyway you can verify anymore information for us. First as I stated I spoke with 5 different employees of this company, then found out that no one works for him. Can you verify if this company you verified has any employees. If anything he has told me is true my engine and many others are on the a delivery truck currently being held up due to the police raid. The truck was last reported in Northern Kentucky or possibly Ohio. I am under the imopression that this delivery truck does not even exist. Is there anyway you can verify and post any information for us.

Sorry for the long post just trying to inform and get to the truth.

Sincerely Jim

[jlharrity]

Just wanted to let everyone know that we also have fallen prey to KHP Engine scam. I will have my husband put up more info but let it be known that this man is a de frauder and be aware!
P.S. To Doug- If you want to steal someones last name try to spell it correctly! I think you are Kent in disguise! Prove me wrong!

[SAXYBIKER]

Jim - I got your first message and replied to you. I also left you my phone number so maybe we can speak if you want to. If you left me a second message, i did not get it. Please feel free to call me, or let me know if you didn't get my reply.

Since I last replied to this thread, I have since made some phone calls to try and verify some of this story. I spoke with the Deputy that has run the investigation and I believe that he has done us all a great service by closing down the "alleged' fraud. He told me that my story is not unique and that he believes that there ay be as many as 300 to 400 people that are in the same boat as you and me. Sort of feels like the Titanic doesn't it?

I also tried to verify the death of his father that allegedly occured about 6 months ago and none of the counties that are around Sturgoen Lake had a record of Kent Helseth (Jr. or Sr.) of any kind, except for a felony investigation a few years back.

I really am sorry if my last post offended anyone, but I generally believe that most people are honest. I lose my temper sometimes when people take advantage of that to defraud me and others like me. I will have to give credit where credit is due though. He was REALLY good. to be able to keep the story straight that he gave each person and come up with a voice for 4 people that sounded so different... the guy was good! Too bad for us I guess.

[Jim Wintz]

Hello folks,

Well another day and I have heard from 2 more individuals that have been caught up in this.

One is from Kentucky who had ordered his engine this past April and again has never received anything. In case you are checking this thread I have your number via e-mail and I will give you a call today.

The second one was a little more fortunate then the rest of us, he was able to get his money back.
His story goes as follows. His engine left their plant in May of 2002. Then their truck broke a main frame rail in Tennessee. He offered to go pick his engine up, but it was too far back on the truck to get off, it had 30 other engines in front of it,(Sound familiar). Then their truck was up and running in July. In early Auigust they were in Kentucky, mid august Nothern Kentucky near Cincinatti, still 15 engines in front of his. He said he wanted to meet with the driver and take him to lunch, the driver said OK. When he got to the agreed town to meet he couldn't reach the driver on his cell phone. He called Kent, who was very upset that this guy was questioning his integrity and sent his money back.

Now why would the driver not meet with this gentleman as he agreed or even send his money back for a completed engine when he is with in 10 or 15 deliveries of getting it to him, unless there never was an engine or delivery truck? Make your own decision. Strange how similiar this story is to the one I have been posting and telling you about in this thread with one exception, this one happened last year (2002) and mine happened this year (2003). I ask this gentleman to log on and post his own story so you can here it directly from him as he was a Club Cobra member last year.

How many more will we find?

Jim

[marklynnttax]

Why does it show the wrong time? confusing log in problems. Anyway, massive e-mail requests on this. So first for Jim, This person has NEVER been sued, so why not start the ball rolling? file in concilliatory court in his county for the amount owed. From experience, if his assets are auctioned, you will see $.10 on the dollar! As for any withholdings for payroll? never, so a simple call to the few people who have confirmed they have done work for him have confirmed my assumption, yes four people, and all were self employed and were payed by him. Apparently also covering for him, and He may be covering for THEM! First a Rich little voice artist, then a confirmation by the gentleman Doug that he simply forwarded calls, which is legal, banks, credit card companies and insurance companies have a local office, yet you may be speaking to "mary" in alaska. The issue of a truck. Why don't you boys think for a second? Small town, you call information and ask for a commo last name, you get a hold of a older gentleman with lots to say...and 'viola! Anyway, yes, his asets at his business and his home were confiscated/seized, and many vehicles were taken, and were actually used in the seizure, rumors abound of a drug manufacturing facility, stolen goods, etc etc. This gentleman said that the engine man was well liked, and worked hard, and he saw many people there often. I asked for a description of the vehicles, he relayed a sport ute, a custom van and a red "delivery type" truck. He also recalled a large white truck often parked there , which as far as he knew was NOT there when this went down. Reminds me of a body shop here which was investigated for not delivering some german cars to a few people, they complained, all recieved the same exact reasons, delivery truck problems. The place was searched, seized, and the gentlemen were forced out of business. They filed bankruptcy, started a new line of work, and then were also able to eventually come up with the truck and the vehicles on it! the excuse was legit, and the authorities were left dumbfounded. Sound familiar? Go to court, get your judgement, so if the "ball is dropped" by the authorities, you have your judgement. His best move will be to not show up, which would allow him to re-file a hearing, and extend your waiting period. bottom line? He could then file bankruptcy and you will get nothing. So many details leads one to believe that ,
1. The investigation may NOt have started the way you said
2. If there was a scheme to defraud, it would be hard to prove since people did get a product and people who asked for a deposit did get it back(your research)
3. He seems to have had quite a selective way of completing business with who he chose.
4. From my short research, he was actually gifted mechanically, but obviously not for business or customer relations.
5. 300-400 people involved? A one man shop with a 250 day per year work day...hard to believe that. A common investigating ploy, If I handed 4000 people my business card, or mailed them solicitations, and didn't do the taxes for the 20-30 I actually was
asked to complete, yet placed a bill on their credit card for my services, and was investigated, yes, 4000 were involved.
6. He may be wise beyond what you wish, and feeling he was mis-treated, may have decided to retain the "Truck" for his defense later, totally ruining any accusations by the prosecuter, with his own "non-existent" employees or contractors coming in to defend him.
I don't have the answers for you, but please, consider immediate filing in concilliatory court to get the ball rolling, why wait? Good luck to you all, and yes those cobras are sharp cars, but not in my budget. I will now bail on this conflict, and wish everyone a outcome which allows one to get on with their lives!
It's the small things in life which gets someone a heart pill!


MLT

[Jim Wintz]

MLT,

Thanks for the info, advice and help.

Still working through all of the details.

Jim

[misfit41]

I feel for you Jim,,and no matter what this other idiot said,you paid and didnt get product,so the guy is a crook,maybe just a good guy who mismanaged taxes,but still a crook,,I think i would had to have bought a plane ticket.
Rest assured he didnt get closed because a couple customers complained or their wouldnt be any one in the us building cars today,either way,I hope you get soem money back.
This brings me to what I am sure is a very stupid question,but from the numbers I see,and the price,why dosent every one use the crate motors ? are they just total junk ? Tk

[Jim Wintz]

TK,

Thanks for your thoughts.

I went with them because I trusted them and they were about $1,600 under the crate engines I was looking at. I wnet ith a crate enging this time from The Engine Factory.

Hind site, if I had to do it over I would have went to his door the day I heard it could be a scam or fraud and called his bluff. Either then got an engine or my money back, that would have been my best chance. No I am hoping the Cheif Deputy comes through and helps us out.

Jim

[jimbo1]

On 11/26/2002 I sent in $1,099.00 to KHP for a marine engine.
This was after talking to someone named Mike. He seemed very knowledgeable about the particular engine. Today I am still waiting on my engine. I was told someone named "Junior" hurt his back while "making deliveries." He spent two months in a hospital in Cincinnati, Ohio. I called different numbers and talked to different people but they all sounded like the same person.
8-25-2003 I called AGAIN and got nothing! Cellphone is disconnected. No answering service on the other phone numbers.

I came across Club Cobra while searching the internet for KHP's web site so I could try to get a hold of them that way.

SAD JIM


Any info would be appreciated!

jimbo1@mail.ohio.net

[Jim Wintz]

This is the second new casuality this week of this situation. Chad if you are ckecking the forum, I e-mailed you my number so we can talk over the phone as your requested. Jim I will e-mail you directly to see if there is anything I can help you with. Most of the history of this story . situation is posted here. If you want to post here with question I will respond and answer what ever I can.

Jim

[Nailheadfred]

Jim, I came across this site and forum while looking for info on KHP. My Brother is also waiting on delivery of a Engine. He too was told 3 wks ago that it was on the truck. I sent you an e-mail direct as I think you two need to talk. Thanks, FRED

[Jim Wintz]

Well, the list keeps growing, I spoke with 2 new unfortunate victims yesterday. Seems like there are a lot of similar but slightly different stories. As far as I can tell everyones that I talked to was expecting their engine on this delivery truck that has had delay after delay. Here are the different stories that I have been told.
1 - The truck hit a deer and busted up the inner cooler for the turbo. Wrong parts ordered, then it was put together wrong and blew the engine.
2 - The main frame rail on the truck broke.
3 - The Driver got a broken jaw and had to park the truck and go back to Iowa.
4 - The driver was worthless and didn't care so they fired him and had to get a new driver.
5 - The driver hurt his back unloading an engine that was falling from the stand and he tried to catch it. He was laid up in the hospital.
6 - From what I was told the driver was laid up in a hospital in Lexington KY. and Cincinnati Ohio, I believe for the hurt back both times.
7 - I was told the truck was broke down about an hour north of Nashville Tn. by the Kentucky border, someone else was told it was South Tennesse.
8 - I was told he was delivering the South first coming up through Georgia, Tennesse, Kentucky, then all of Ohio before he would get to me in Indiana. Talked with someone in Georgia who never received their engine and per the story I was told he was already there. It sounds like he was in everyone of these states depending on the story but no one received delivery of their engine.
9 - A gentleman I spoke with last night was told he was making a delivery just outside of Indianapolis (an hour from me) then he had to deliver one in Indiana close to the Ohio border before he deliveried his. Well he assumed that was me since I am close to the Ohio border and Indianapolis. Well I never received mine and from what he was telling me the driver never made it through Kentucky.
These are just a few of the stories on why the delivery was delayed, the reasons why the builds were delayed very as well. Sounds like the names of the supposed different individuals at the supposed shop were pretty much the same.
These are just the different versions from the people I have talked with over the past few weeks. The Deputy Sheriff says he is talking with 4 to 6 new victums per day. Got to give this guy credit for keeping the names and the stories straight.

Will keep you posted as new news developes.

Jim

[JWheaton]

Who are all these new posters that all of a sudden have found this scam thread?

I am confused. How can so many first time posters all of a sudden be somehow guided to this site to post on this particular problem.

Are members of CC being scammed?

[Jim Wintz]

The people I have been talking to are finding this site through a web search. Since they are waiting on delivery of their engines, and now when they call the shop there is no answer, and all of the cell phone numbers are disconnected they are searching the web for information on this company. When you put KHP, Dragboy, or as one person did they put in KHP's phone number it brings up this web page. That is how they have told me that they have found out. Some are posting some are just e-mailing me direct and others a calling me. As far as I know I have only come across one individual who was previous a member of Club Cobra who was caught up in this last year with Dragboy, but he was the more fortunate individual who was able to get he money back. I found him through the search engine on this web site for Dragboy. I saw that he had posted that he purchased an engine from them, so I e-mailed him asking if he ever got it. He said he had stopped posting on the forums awhile back for whatever reason. As far as I know he was the only one, other then myself caught up in this that is or was a member of the Cobra Club.

Jim

[jimbo1]

I came across Club Cobra while searching for KHP on the internet!

I searched for KHP at www.google.com and put KHP Engine in the search field. The first and second listing were Club Cobra - Engine builder scam.
Don't worry CC is not being scammed!! Try the search yourself!
Jim

[jimbo1]

Jim,
Could you please let me know what Sheriff Dept. contacted you - were they from MN or Iowa?
The Sheriff's name and the phone number where they can be contacted?
I dealt with the people in Iowa.
Thanks alot for your help!

Jim