Has Snap On moved to India?

[Ron61]

All so true. I don't think that in the last year when I have been working on a problem with the telephone company that required dealing with one of their techs I have spoken to an Americian. A few times I have had to tell them I just can't understand them and ask them to get someone who speaks English. This seems to be the same in any industry. I have spent hours working with AOL Techs?, who I think read off cue cards as they have no idea of what they are saying and I can't understand most of it anyway. Do you know how hard it to explain to someone that you can't understand that the reason their monitor is black is the little button that says power must be turned on. AOL also had some of the W32 worm in their e-mail severs and it took 5 days to get to a tech who even knew what I was talking about. Once I got a knowledgeable one that I could understand they had it fixed the next day. So, yes it is frustrating to not be able to understand anyone that you call to ask a question. But I fear this is going to just get to be the only ones we will have to talk to.

Ron

[Dirty Harry]

I drove my car in a 4th of July parade a few years ago. It was pretty cool-people waving American flags and celebrating freedom and liberty. When I got back to the car show after the parade, my little daughter ran up excitedly to show me the American flag she had gotten "for free." You guessed it-right on the side it said, "Made in China." It kinda took some of the fun out of the holiday for me.

[dscott]

All the parts in my replicas are made in the USA with the exception of a few Lucas parts from the UK. I would also like to thank whoever is killing the steel market in the USA. My steel cost has doubled in the last month. When I get a quote it is only good for 24 hours and some won't even guarantee that. So far I have been eating the extra cost but if it keeps going up I have no choice but to raise my prices. We already work on slim margins and this doesn't help. I'm trying my best to keep everything american made. We need to keep our workforce here! I try and buy everything I can with the sticker "made in the USA" but some things it's almost impossible anymore. Or, some things are made here and assembled in Mexico. I see nothing wrong with being an american and wanting my product to be made here. I'm tired of supporting the rest of the world and we can't even provide a decent education for our kids. My property taxes went up $600 this year because the feds and state cut the education buget by millions. It has to come from somewhere.
Don

[bmalone]

I can share my experiences in the computer industry. Microsoft and others moved call center operations to various foreign countries some time ago. THis used to be driven by time of day--that is, technical support is typically a 24 hour operation for the larger companies. I first started noticing this when Cisco routed after-hours calls to Australia (about mid to late nineties). I remember thinking this is no big deal; I can understand the person I am speaking with.

More recently (within the last couple of years), Microsoft and other large software vendors have routed the support calls to call centers in India and the Phillipines. For myself or my staff, it is a common occurence to place support calls. So. talking to someone from India, Phillipines or Russia has often caused untenable communication problems. From the beginning, I have always done the same thing: if I really cannot understand the person I am speaking to, I ask for a manager--I don't just ask to be put back in the queue. Getting a manager allows me to share my opinion that this situation causes a severe problem for me and I will not accept speaking to someone whose native language is not English.

To make a long story short, I have talked to and exchanged numerous e-mails with Microsoft managers. They are in the business of providing customer satisfaction. Literally, this has happened more than twenty times. I have stated I will re-evaluate where I buy software from if this is the level of support I receive and have stated that routing the calls gives them a black eye. People do understand that. If the support you receive is terrible, then it really doesn't matter which brand of software you choose to buy--I will buy from those that offer superior customer service.

By my own observation, Microsoft has stopped routing calls to India (I could be wrong, but it hasn't happened to me in a while). As others have said, you do not have to accept what is offered. If enough people complain, the tide sometimes turns in the other direction.

[petek]

Don,

Steel prices => China. They are gobblin' up all of the steel they can get their hands on.

replica parts -- even the front suspension parts? (I thought all of the newer parts were being made in Mexico.) Major kudos to you for keeping the "Make in the USA" in your cars!!!!

Taxes -- I don't know about your town, but the biggest problem in our area are TIFs. We had a number of big-box stores move in and get a lot of TIF money. They don't have to pay property taxes for say 20 years. Smaller businesses (like my wife's) and home owners (like us) end up making up the difference.


Everyone... this is still America! If there is a product that is being manufactured overseas, compete with the product and build one here! Yes, I know, chances are you'll go out of business pretty darn quick because John Q. Public votes with his pocketbook. But there are exeptions.

Teddy Bears are made where? China? India? There is no way that a US company could compete with China and India in making Teddy Bears, right?

Wrong. Surf to: http://www.vermontteddybear.com/

[trularin]

Most of my cobra is made by either me, LoneStar or Ford. but there are parts that you are forced to buy ( if you want that option or part ) from over seas.

I agree with just about all of what has been said in this thread. The sad part is, we either go along or without in some cases.

I think foreign Doctors are the worst. They act like they have you over a barrel and you can not understand them.

Vent! Vent! Vent!

[avanti-176]

Don,
Pete K. is exactly right. China is buying up any and all of the steel they can get their hands on.
I am a structural engineer and have been watching this for the last year or so.
Designed a building last year and the estimates came to about
$900,000 for the structural steel package. Just last month finished a re-design of the building which eliminated one "ENTIRE FLOOR" new bids came in at 1.6 MILLION for the steel package, almost doubled(with less material) in the space of 9 or ten months.

Have a good one,
Dan

[RaceDeck]

I could not agree more with the how so many companies have gone overseas to China, Taiwan, Mexico, South Africa, etc..for only one reason...To try and save costs on labor. Also, with many countries subsidize companies that export into USA ( for example South Africa, New Zealand, UK,etc.. get as much as a 50% credit on the sale of their product) I know that in my industry the only thing I get on exporting to other countries is "taxed"...this makes it tough to compete in a global market and sometimes tough to compete with them here ( I compete with one company in one of our other industries that actually gets the following to come here and exhibit and sell in the USA - Full airfare reinbursed, 50% hotel, 42% credit on all products sold here, this is definetly not fare trade)

Now, I really have no issue with a company going to a country like Italy, Germany, Austria or Poland to get specific products that are manufactured by craftsman who come from generations within their trade...not $2.00 a day cheap labor. I am fortunate enough to employ some highly skilled people in my company that can machine all of our tools & molds and operate them.

[decooney]

Its not just losing jobs, its also a matter of privacy, security, and more issues are starting to surface as a result of Outsourcing certain job functions. SFGate is running a whole series on it now. Now we have India companies outsourcing their overflow to other outsourcing companies in other countries. How secure is your private financial and medical information?

Check it out if you are interested...


http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...FS3080R264.DTL


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...UGOI62GAI1.DTL

[petek]

Wow.

[Robert T. Faust]

Definately believe there should be some kind of boycott of companies who leave the United States for cheap labor. This is not a politically correct thing to say, but should be said. Got a good laugh from the recent incident where this young lady in India was demanding money from some medical insurance company here or she would post all their patients private medical records on the internet. Wonder if they paid or she actually posted this information? On talk radio today (KGO 810am) they where discussing CSAA Insurance (AAA) moving 500 jobs in California and going to Nevada. Think they'll still go by the name of California State Auto? Have you called MicroSoft Tech Help for Flight Simulator lately? Yep, it's in India too! God bless America, we help everyone!
Bob

[petek]

Oh how I miss KGO 810. One of the better talk radio formats around ... or at least it was 15 years ago or so.

[ToyCollector]

Originally posted by decooney
Check it out if you are interested...


http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...FS3080R264.DTL


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...UGOI62GAI1.DTL [/b]

I am a free market capitalist at heart, but this outsourcing stuff is ruining this country, all so a few 1000s CXOs can have even fatter stock option packages, pensions, and profit sharing bonuses. Sad sad stuff. Michael Moore, who I in general despise, did do a film some years ago when he interviewed Nike CEO Philip Knight, and to TURK's point, asked him why not open a plant in the U.S. and create jobs, and therefore more people who could afford $80 sneakers, versus saving $2/sneaker or whatever ridiculously low delta there is. To parody the movie "Wall Street", "GREED is not GOOD", Mr. Gecko!!

[Curt C.]

Being an economic finance type person I will take a stab at this one. Outsourcing is the result of a golbal economy; something the US government has been trying to achieve over the past 50 years to avert countries fighting wars for economic resources. We loose manufacturing jobs because other folk in the world will do them cheaper.

A capitalistic society dictates companies either reduce costs / improve productivity or go out of business leaving the stronger behind. Believe me, Companies will bend over backwards to save $2.00 on a $38 pair of jeans. It is extremely competitive out there. And, as someone noted earlier, most of us support it wholeheartedly by voting with our dollars. How many here have foreign made electronics, cars, televisions, etc.? So, are we now going to boycott Kirkham, Shelby, SPF and the others because some of the larger assemblies are made overseas? I don't think so. Most people are price conscious period.

The US is trading MFG jobs for service oriented and professional positions. As Americans, we can either embrace it and learn new skills or go to China and practice our trades there. It is simply the reality of the situation. Don't believe me, ask Alan Greenspan. We can ban together and try to fight it, but Adam Smith's invisible hand will surely slap the $#!^ out of us.

I am a die hard American so please do not attack me as a treasoner because I have chosen to voice my pragmatic, economic view of the situation. I do try and buy American where I can if it suits me. I have an American made Classic Roadster

[decooney]

ToyCollector, Others...
Agreed, I buy some personal things from foreign countries produced by foreign labor. Sure, why not - right? Ugh, maybe wrong... After digging into this a bit more over the last year and seeing what is going on makes me feel a bit like a hypocrite in some respects... it also makes me wonder what the heck I can do to help the cause as an individual (and probably nothing) but maybe there is some sort of power in numbers and way to help increase awareness for those that have power and control to help change it. Keeping that message on the radar screen is critical, I would think. And who knows, just maybe there are a few people that visit this site that have influence to help push too. We in Kalifornia know that Arnold is talking about it; which is good.

This may sound lame and ignorant, but I believe in Grass-Roots efforts to some degree, and whatever all of us can do to help spread awareness is something at a minimum. I must say, I'm more aware of how my/our purchasing decisions help to contribute to the bottom line as a result of these studies and findings going on. If US companies continue at the rate that its going now for outsourcing more jobs, products, and core labor functions, I'd hate to see what shape we'll be in around 10 years from now.

Lets all make a pact to spread the word and keep it on the radar. The more people talk about it, the more people campaining for upcoming elections will use this as a tool for votes. Spread the word...

[aumoore]

Originally posted by Curt C.


Being an economic finance type person I will take a stab at this one. Outsourcing is the result of a golbal economy; something the US government has been trying to achieve over the past 50 years to avert countries fighting wars for economic resources. We loose manufacturing jobs because other folk in the world will do them cheaper. A capitalistic society dictates companies either reduce costs / improve productivity or go out of business leaving the stronger behind. Believe me, Companies will bend over backwards to save $2.00 on a $38 pair of jeans. It is extremely competitive out there. And, as someone noted earlier, most of us support it wholeheartedly by voting with our dollars. How many here have foreign made electronics, cars, televisions, etc.? So, are we now going to boycott Kirkham, Shelby, SPF and the others because some of the larger assemblies are made overseas? I don't think so. Most people are price conscious period.

The US is trading MFG jobs for service oriented and professional positions. As Americans, we can either embrace it and learn new skills or go to China and practice our trades there. It is simply the reality of the situation. Don't believe me, ask Alan Greenspan.

I am a die hard American so please do not attack me as a treasoner because I have chosen to voice my pragmatic, economic view of the situation. I have an American made Classic Roadster

Curt

I agree that companies will go out of their way to save $2.00 bucks on a $38 pair of jeans and that is the problem. The CEO will lay off 500 employees in a small town in rural USA just so he can get his fat bonus and spend it on a penthouse in Manhattan. We do not even have a choice anymore on many products because there is no manufacturer left in the States to choose Vs the foreign made product.

I have heard the talk about the new Service based economy but I have traveled in many economically challenged areas where the whole town is built around the local factory. When it shuts down the whole town dies. No more little pink houses for you and me.

When Boeing outsources our next fighter plane to Afghanistan I will start counting the days until we wind up just like the once great Roman Empire.

I am not trying to say you are no less an American I am just providing my point of view.

[ToyCollector]

Originally posted by Curt C.


Being an economic finance type person I will take a stab at this one. Outsourcing is the result of a golbal economy; something the US government has been trying to achieve over the past 50 years to avert countries fighting wars for economic resources. We loose manufacturing jobs because other folk in the world will do them cheaper.

A capitalistic society dictates companies either reduce costs / improve productivity or go out of business leaving the stronger behind.

REAL ANSWER:

How many people in this country can see it coming, understand it's coming, react to it, and then re-skill themselves. There is NO EASY answer to this freakin mess. Listen, I have always known when I was in a dying biz to see it coming and make the hop to the next wiz bang thing. I happened to elevate myself to IT which is one of the more dynamic of all biz sports. When that gets outsourced to India, what do we have left? Today, I was working on dis-barring a lawyer due to his absolutely horrific lack of quality in his work. What intellectual capital other than liberalism do we have left after teaching all the foreigners what we know????? Mistake #1.

[petek]

Ok, let's buy American, starting with energy. Stop buying middle-east oil!

Anybody here have a 401K? The value of your 401K is based on.... what? Most 401K values are loosely based on how well a company does somewhere. That CEO who closed a non-profitable or low-profitable plant in order to improve the bottom line, indirectly put money in your pocket via your 401K.

What is the country's current rate of unemployment? 4%? 6%? I don't remember it being 20% or 30%. Jobs are being created. Yes, some many folks have to retrain or re-educate. And I firmly believe the days of being able to barely get through HS and then go work at a high paying union shop job are long gone.

Let's face it, our kids will have two, maybe three careers in their lifetime. They will be going to school or training all of their lives.

[ToyCollector]

Pete, I am a "right winger". Jobs are getting created. I do not dispute. What kind?

[decooney]

I'm in IT too. Have been for 20 years now. Who knows, maybe I am extra sensitive to what is going on, constantly being bombarded with resume's from friends and colleagues that lost their jobs or still can't find work in IT. Some after 2 years are still out of solid work picking up a short 1 month contract (if lucky) here and there. Super scary for those with a family, three kids, and recently purchased homes. No different than people losing jobs in product mfg, steel mills, whatever... Many with specific specialized IT job skills (now being outsourced to India) are having to scramble to take whatever wage jobs they can get to not go on welfare after their unemployment ran out... I still see the fear in their eyes, and their wives saying to them "What are we going to do?".

For those with decent or good jobs and limited exposure to this situation may not truly understand how it is... We are/were getting beat on our own turf and now the turf is being moved. Part of what Globalization is starting to mean sure scares the crap out of me. Seriously, If today is an example of what is ahead on a greater scale, I don't want to think of what it will be like 20-50 years from now. Freakin scary.

Multidisciplinary job skills and experience is a must for anyone with specialized job skills today and for others that want to survive and live well long term. Especially if this situation continues to get worse over the next five to ten years. Good Luck to all.