Has Snap On moved to India?

[Atomsk]

PeteK:

If you have an alternative in mind, let's hear it, but if your entire answer is ANWR, forget it. Even if all of Alaska were open to drilling, the increase in production would only equal 5% of what the Persain Gulf produces. If you know where we can get the extra 95%, let us know.

Also, this obsession with stock price is one of the biggest problems in business today. The stock is not the company. Employee job satisfaction, bringing quality products to market, stewardship of the corporate identity, all these should figure higher in managment's list of priorities.

TC:

Minimum wage "Mall Wart" jobs, mostly, and many of those are going away. My local supermarket recently replaced several registers with self-service checkout lanes. An employee told me that they then laid off several cachiers.

If the entire US labor force is replaced by forigners, illegal aliens, and machines, what will happen to the consumer economy?

The last time business tried to eliminate the consumer class, the result was The Great Depression.

[petek]

TC, if I had to recommend to someone a specific area to educate / train / and search, I would say any job where the outcome is to service some sort of necessity. NMI systems at hospitals at the high end, AC and furnaces in homes at the low end.

Brian, nope, sorry, I don't have an answer. My point was that we already buy from the world market and nobody is complaining about buying oil. I'm all for converting the Nation's electrical system from fuel oil plants to hydro, coal, and nuclear. I'd also suggest that we stop subsidizing tobacco farmers and instead grow corn and turn it into ethanol (for local use).

Also, jobs are created at every level of the market. Sure there are plenty of burger flippin' or WalMart jobs. If that is the extent of how you view your future, fine. I view those jobs as entry or temporary; jobs you do while you are still in school.

As for your diatribe on corporations and stocks, I take it that you are not a foreman, supervisor, manager, or CEO ... or a small business owner? Have you ever run a successful business based on the principles you stated?

[trularin]

The entire topic is more on the way of, "when I turn the keys over to my children, what will they get?"

I was at Chrysler and was told the Germans will not buy parts, components or even talent from other countries unless they absolutely have to.

We should be doing the same thing. Lately I have been asking if what I am getting is made in the USA, most the time it is NOT.

I think I will go back to farming. The crops are grown in America.

[petek]

"...Germans will not buy parts, components or even talent from other countries..."

But look who builds their cars (Turks for the most part).

What is Germany's unemployment rate?

Take another look at where the fruits and vegatables you purchase at your local market are grown. Seriously. Particularly in the Winter months.

I am in complete favor with having all products, including food stuffs, to be require to have a sticker announcing the country of origin and or manufacturer.

[dscott]

trularin, you might want to think twice about the farming venture. Most of my in-laws are farmers and believe me it's tough going. The days of the family farm are going away and the only way to make a living is by expanding the operation. That's hard to do when a combine will cost $250,000. Kind of catch 22. My brother-in-law now farms about 12,000 acres but every acre is done at a loss because the price of corn and soy beans are at a level comparable to 30 years ago. The only way they make it is government subsidies. If the country would switch over to more of the ethanol based fuels the corn growers wouldn't need the fed help. I live in corn country and I can't think of too many rich farmers. Most believe they are producing products that help the country. I understand times have changed but we still need them. All of my family are proud of their heritage and their life as farmers. They are very proud to be americans, live in a free society, and give back what prior generations have tried to do. My wife and I just purchased her family farm, it has been in her family since 1918, her Dad was born and died in the house. I am very proud to have a part of her history knowing that her family members can still "come home". What a mess we have created, I only hope we can instill in our children what it means to wave our flag, have freedom, and truly understand the full impact of "made in America"
Don

[petek]

Don nailed it. Thank God for the American farmer! (... and rancher).

[ToyCollector]

Originally posted by petek


As for your diatribe on corporations and stocks, I take it that you are not a foreman, supervisor, manager, or CEO ... or a small business owner? Have you ever run a successful business based on the principles you stated?

Diatribe? I have been director level and most of my toys are the result of partaking in stock options, but Pete please, you have to admit that some of these decisions will hurt our country and wouldn't it be nice if (and they ARE out there), if some CEOs would say, "You know, if we keep these jobs here, we'll still earn $22,000,000 instead of $22,500,000 and I think it is the right thing to do".

[petek]

TC, take another look, the diatribe remark I made was directed to Brian (Atomsk), not you. I answered your question in the first paragraph of my response.

Yes, some CEOs make decisions that sure do appear to be stupid decisions ... stupid business decisions. I really, really, really like the idea of holding the Chief Executive staff personally responsible for their decisions ... ditto the board of directors. We've seen a number of cases where companies have been lead astray by their CEOs; it is also interesting that the problem CEOs are being found and prosecuted.

One BIG problem of the current market system is the unrealistic expecations of company stock. Stock should be treated as a LONG TERM investment, not a way to make overnight millions. I wonder what would happen to the way companies were run if a company's stock could only be traded once a year. Better yet, if a company's stock could only be BOUGHT once a year.

OK, so we've got tort reform, tax reform, investment reform ... anything else we need to put on the table?

[Atomsk]

petek:

No, my attempts to start my own business have been thwarted thus far, by the availability of cheap overseas labor.

However I work for a company that is quite successful, even though it is privately held. Our owner and president spends his days working on improvements to our product, and other issues that effect the general health of the company as a whole.

By previous job was at a publicly held company, and it was a cluster... (you know what). The CEO was only interested in the stock price. I spent a year working on a major project, and this guy took one look at it after all that time and cancelled the whole thing. I don't think he even knew what we produced. What a putz.

If upper managment could only concentrate on encouraging innovation, and bringing quality products and services to market. Maybe that way the values of companies will come to be based on what they're actually worth, instead of encouraging all the lying and cheating we've seen lately, in the name of "the stock price".

[petek]

Brian,

"No, my attempts to start my own business have been thwarted thus far, by the availability of cheap overseas labor. "

Then hire the overseas labor yourself and start up the company anyway. Or offer a premium product (risky but works when the consumers perceive extra value in the premium product and are willing to spend the extra bucks).

IMHO, the one BIGGEST risk of starting your own company is fear. Many successful companies are started while still working for another company. You do your 9-5 and then work at home from when you get home until 2 am. Weekends represent 48 hours to work on your business. If your company fails, you are out a few bucks and some time. If you company does well and is making enough money, then you quit your day job and work your business full time.

Offer something that consumers want or need, at a quality and price that they accept, and if you can make a few bucks doing it, well, you've got yourself a company!

(Just for the record, yes I have, a couple failed big time, a few did so-so but actually made money, a couple did very well. Although I could stop working my day job, the job sure does a great job of taking care of my health insurance needs and putting bucks into my 401k.)

[aumoore]

Petek you said:

"(Just for the record, yes I have, a couple failed big time, a few did so-so but actually made money, a couple did very well. Although I could stop working my day job, the job sure does a great job of taking care of my health insurance needs and putting bucks into my 401k.)"

If your second job would not support your whole lifestyle then it was not successful. Too many small businesses are run just to provide a sub-par paycheck just so they will not have to answer to someone. If the business cannot afford basic benefits for its owner and employees then maybe it is not a viable business. Heck if you cannot afford basic health insurance are you really making a profit? Now if you look at it as a side business then it may be worth it as long as it does not interfere with your day job.

Many "small" businesses are running without health insurance and many are not even paying for workers comp, general liability etc. Who are they trying to fool?

Maybe all those guys who used to work at good paying "factory" jobs are now running a small business at break even with no health insurance, workers comp or general liability?

I think the message here is this outsourcing will not stop until nobody has a job one day. Maybe China will pay us unemployment so we can keep buying their products?

[trularin]

First, I farm trees. It is not a primary income venture, it's more of a "do my part to clean the air". As a second job, the farming thing would never support my life style. However, as a tax break, it works.

It is very very hard to compete with a guy who will run a machine for a bowl of rice and a Coke in China when we want more. No jokes about Oliver!

It is and has been the american way. Are we victums of our own situation?

[Atomsk]

Originally posted by petek


Brian,


IMHO, the one BIGGEST risk of starting your own company is fear.

Pete:

You're so right about that!

Fear... Fear and surprise... Fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency... No, wait a minute, that's something else.

I need to get around my uncertainties, and move my plans forward. I know I'll never be happy "workin' for the man", but I don't want to wind up "managing" for a living either. I just want to survive by my wits alone, and prove (to myself and others) that I have "the skills to pay the bills".

I've always seen money as a means, not an end. That's a lesson I wish these "NASDQ boys" would learn.

[petek]

aumoore,
The second job could pay more, but then I'd have to work more at it. The balance I've achieved gives me low risk and an acceptable pay-back. I could easily afford health care from the business, but I can get healthcare significantly cheaper by continuing to work at my day-time job. My wife's business could also take care of the healthcare (in fact it does for all of her employees, but not her as the healthcare is cheaper if I provide it). There isn't a lot of incentive for small business to provide healthcare, it's one of those things that needs to be fixed IMHO.

I've also had a business that existed to pay for a hobby. Got eat up in taxes, but I still made enough profit to enjoy the hobby at no cost other than time, which didn't matter as it was a hobby and the time I spent, I enjoyed!


trularin,
The trick is to find something that can't be done by somebody who only wants a bowl of rice and a coke. In part, that is the problem with farming. I mean, who picks all of the produce grown in California? How much skill does it take to pick a veggy ... I mean it's not like the veggy is trying to get away!

But still, aren't their niche market farmers that are doing well? Particularly in the fruit area (giant strawberries) and organically grown veggies? Small wine companies seem to be growing in popularity (even though some of them charge quite a premium for their wines)!


Brian,
"Fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency..."

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!


Everyone... it's not "is the glass half full or half empty" it's: hey cool, I've got a glass and this liquid, how neat is that anyway! There are plenty of places on this planet with folks that would literally kill for the chance to have a glass and some liquid!

[decooney]

Unfortunately - High insurance costs, multiple state regulations, CA workmans comp costs, and frustrating employee theft is what deterred me from continuting one of my previous businesses. Eventually sold the business to someone that employed their family to run the business instead. He is at least able to avoid some of the costs that I could not. I guess if there is a will there is a way, but it was very difficult to keep a small business with 12 employees going with reasonable profit (or more profit than a regular corporate job) while doing everything by the book in CA.

Somehow, if the States or Federal Government could play even a more enabling role to help small businesses (remove some of the garbage restrictions) its quite possible business could stay here.

Oh well, wishful thinking. Argh.

[so427]

To whom this may concern:

When you call Snap-on tools you are calling the main headquarters, they give you a 880 # to call on the specific product, that 800 # they give you is to that product, scanners are in california not india! There are many divisions of Snap-on tools
The most american tool company left.


P.S. I am a former 15 year Snap-on tools dealer

Thanks Karl

[Tom Wells]

Hi Karl,

If you go back to the beginning (it's a long way back) you'll see I was referring to the e-mail response I got from SO. It appeared to be a "boilerplate" e-mail and really didn't make any sense if you read it literally.

When the issue arises again I plan to use the phone instead of e-mail, although I'm still not sure how I'm gonna

include this entire email in any response

but I'll sure try!

Regards,

Tom