Done with McLeod

[cwmcobra]

I'm sure this could start a huge debate, but here goes......

For anyone using the McLeod hydraulic throwout bearings, enjoy them while you can because they won't last long. I had one of the "old designs" in my Cobra and the banjo fittings gave out with about 700 miles on the car. I sent it to McLeod and they retrofitted to the "new design" with solid elbows instead of the banjoes. Put 1000 miles on it and put the car up for the winter here in Michigan. During a conversation with Red McLeod during my retrofit process, he told me that all hydraulic TOBs are subject to the O-rings drying out if not stroked regularly. Suggested when the car is not driven or stored for the winter, stroke the clutch every week or so to keep the O-ring lubed. So, I put it up for the winter and went out a couple weeks later and stroked the clutch. Unexpectedly, it stuck at first, then broke loose. I stroked it a couple of times and it felt normal Every 1-2 weeks since, I've stroked the clutch. No sticking since the first time. Now I know why......there's a huge puddle of hydraulic fluid under the car. I conclude that when it first stuck, it moved or damaged the O-ring and since I've only been pumping fluid out of my reservoir with every subsequent clutch cycle.

This design is apparently so poor, that it has multiple failure modes. I can't consider buying any more products from a supplier, even as highly recommended as McLeod, that doesn't have enough concern for their customers to pull a bad product from the market. Its as simple as that.

I'm now off to find a competitive product to replace the McLeod with. Probably Tilton at a cost of about $500. Also, the huge hassle of changing not only the TOB, but the master cylinder in the finished car.

Anyone considering buying a McLeod TOB, don't even think about it. I'd hate to have to say "I told you so", as some will no doubt say to me since I gave them a second chance.....and came out on the losing end!

Chuck

[Cracker]

Sorry to hear of your experience.

I feel compelled to offer my experience. I put the gen.1 version of the M.T.B. in my car - no problem with over 1500 miles on it. My tranny needed an overhaul at this time (long story) and decided that now was the time to update the MTB - Red updated everything free of charge - even with it not having any problems. I then put just over 1000 miles on it before selling the car - the new owner just let me know everything was still fine (with the entire car). It appears it's like Jeep Grand Cherokee's of years past - either you got a good or bad one. Installation, set-up and pedal stops seem to be the issue of most failures - I'm not saying that's the problem here but in most cases it is. When faced with another project and where warranted - I'll have a HTB in my car in a heartbeat.

[ERA 626]

What ever happened to the simple design of the standard TOB? I have a non-hydraulic type in my car with no problems. At snakes to the lake last year a guy in a SPF with a hydraulic TOB had it fail on him and had to trailer his car home, he missed the whole event. Not to mention the clutch slave cylinder is inside the bell housing! Meaning pulling the bell housing to replace it. NO THANKS. What is the big advantage of the Hydraulic TOB?

[Jim Kellogg]

I know that there are many running the McLeod TO bearings without a problem. It is highly recommended by my local performance Ford Speed Shop.

It is very important to get the initial setup right, or you WILL have problems.

All that said, I suffered with mine for 2 years before finally pulling it and going to a hyd slave cylinder setup. More than once, lost my clutch at a stop, or when going for a quick shift, lost the clutch the next time I needed it. After a year or so, I got used to it enough that I knew when I had to pump it up before the next use.
Didn't bother with the upgrade (mine had the banjo fittings). After 10k miles on the McLeod, and never knowing if it was going to do what it was supposed to do (always had a can of brake fluid to keep topping it up), I pulled the trans and changed the setup.

I'm very happy with my current hyd slave setup (got the parts from Dynamic) and would not recommend the McLeod hyd bearing for everyday street use. It may work great for comp use, but it did not work for me.

just my experience,
Jim Kellogg
Elmira, NY

[David Kirkham]

Just posting my experience here.

I have had a McLeod unit in my car for about 8 years and 10,000 miles. (Not so kind miles either as it has seen lots of track use.) No problems at all. Just get in and drive.

You do, however, have to use DOT 3 fluid and not DOT 4 fluid as the DOT 3 has a higher lubricity. Some DOT 4 high performance fluids will even eat the seals so be careful. That may be what happened to you.

Many, many, many new cars use the hydraulic throw out bearing and the design in itself is not bad.

I have had great luck with McLeod products and they are a GREAT company to deal with. They have always stood behind everything they have sold to us.

David

[Jim Kellogg]

Don't want to drag this out any further, as I know that many have been using the McLeod bearings without a problem, but here is a little more info about my troubles....

I drive SPF887 pretty much as a "daily driver" year around (except for snow on the roads) here in the northeast. Ambient temps when driving range from -20f to 100f.

My setup was trouble free for probably 7,000 miles. From around 7,000 miles to 10,000 miles I was having intermittant problems. Failed completely a couple of times, then random leaks and no pedal other times.

Finally changed to conventional bearing and hydraulic slave at around 10,000 miles. Over 15,000 miles now and the new setup still works great. Does what it is supposed to do every time.

As I said before, initial setup for the internal hyraulic setup is critical. It is possible, I suppose, that mine was not set up properly. But why did it work fine for 7k miles? I know the system is used by OE manufacturers, so it is not a BAD system. It is also used on many comp cars of all types. However, it seems that in our application - small block or big block - the failure rate is high.

My advice to all is, weigh all the options, then build it the way YOU want!!
Jim Kellogg
Elmira, NY

[decooney]

Nope, no more internal hydraulic TOBs for me on my Cobra.

Left me stranded two different times on drives on my last Cobra due to product failures with lines and seals on the Tilton and RAM setups. When they work they do work well. However, if you drive your car on longer drives away from home, when they fail you ARE basically $hit out of luck stuck on the side of the road. Back to the external slave setup on my last car and my current Cobra. Learned the hard way. Never again. Others have better luck I guess. Good Luck.

[427 S/O]

Like David, no problems after more than 10,000 miles, but
reading here on earlier post about some failures, I bought an extra set of o-rings, guess I'll use them someday?, I don't understand how it could be installed improperly?, it only goes in one way!.

[Cobrabill]

Chuck-if it is a design problem,then explain my unit being in the car since 1996 with NO issues.I up-graded to the new style banjos when the tranny was out for other reasons.I had used DOT-4 fluid also and caused the O-rings to swell.Unit is back in car and again with no issues.

As far as your "concern"comment goes,we would all be better off if every company had customer service like McLeod does.

[Bud Man]

Have been running a McLeod HTO for about four years. Davids comments about making sure you run only DOT 3 in it must be heeded, as well as the need to properly set up the initial clearance between the bearing ring and the clutch PP fingers.

No complaints with McLeod other than when I sent my Gen 1 unit in to be fitted with the new elbow fittings, I found that when it came back one of the new fittings appeared bent and swiveled quite loosely in comparison to the other. Not trusting it, I called McLeod and asked McLeod to send me another, which I would install. McLeod sent me a replacement, and billed me $75.00 for
it!

And remember, they send you the spare o-rings and quad-rings for a reason..

Bud

[David Kirkham]

Jim,

Did you talk to McLeod about the charge? In ALL of my experiences with them in the past I have never had any issues. They are really, really nice to deal with.

I have sent stuff back long, long after we bought it. I told them and they basically demanded we send it back. (It was new in the box.)

USE THE DOT 3 FLUID!!!

David

[Bud Man]

David:

I did not. Just installed it and got on my way. Generally pretty happy with it. My clutch feel is quite good, just thankful for my good luck!

Jim

[Excaliber]

Well it sounds like McLeod works well for some,,, but that little voice in my head keeps saying, "Even a blind squirrel can find a nut from time to time."

I'll pass on the hydro thing myself.

[Cobrabill]

But the odds of multiple blind rats with fluffy tails showing up in the same place, at the same AND all of them finding nuts are not good.

So there HAS to be another explanation

[John S Peterson]

I too had my run of problems with the HTOB in my car. I'm not sure if it was me and the initial setup or the bearing itself, but McLeod has been more than helpfull if that is any consolation. At this point I'm in the process of re installing my trans and of course tob, but made sure the setup was done to exactness (if thats a word) I gravity bled the unit which worked great and adjusted master cyl rod to allow only 1 inch of stroke. No need for a pedal stop because at 1 inch my pedal is on the floor. I have just started it long enough to see if it releases and if a big smile on my face is any indication of the results so far, maybe I've won for now.

John

[Excaliber]

Cobrabill,,,,, sounds like John stumbled across one of them elusive "nuts".

[Cobrabill]

Now there is a line that i'm not gonna touch.

[etimothy]

I wish that I had read this thread before I put a McLeod unit in my car. My Unique has less than 200 miles on it and I've had the trans. out 3 times because gear lube keeps leaking past the unit into the bellhousing. Seems to be a mystery as it is not leaking past the seal. It almost seems like the gasket is too thin?

tim

[Tout]

Tim,

Eric @ Performance Engineering just replaced my McLeod with a Tilton unit, car had 500 miles on it and failed three times in three days on his dyno. The feeling was that the TOB was heating up and expanding and then the fluid would pass the oring, after the car cooled we had a pedal again. Eric had stayed the first night till 2 AM taking it out and rebuilding the unit only to have it fail the next day.

John

[etimothy]

Tout,
Everything seems OK with the pedal and the hydraulic system we just can't seem to keep gear lube from passing the gasket and/or the bolts and entering the bellhousing. The shaft and pressure plate are dry, so the seal seems OK. Just put it all back together tonight, Tranny goes back in tomorrow morning. Have your fingers crossed for me.
tim