Highland Daytona Racing issues

[downshift1]

A little background on me:
Shop owner, 15 year career mechanic, former SCCA ProRacing Crew Chief, relentless road racer.

I own a shop here in the midwest where one of my customers brings me his HDR Cobra for work and for winter storage.

I recieved this car (4months old and 500 miles on it) in the fall of 04' for some minor complaints such as exhaust leaks and fluid leaks and a repetative dying battery.

After looking over the car I found quite a few things wrong:

Alternator belt was missing due to the fact there was no adjustment capability due to frame design. (total adjustment is less than 1 inch)

Massive fluid leak from rear axle center section

Headers were welded incorrectly at the tube to flange joint causing exhaust leaks and melted spark plug wires. (All 8 cylinders were leaking)

Almost all coating from headers and sidepipes had flaked off

Valve cover leaks (at cork gaskets)

Transmission pops out of reverse due to mis adjusted shifter stops

Rear tires installed at HDR rub at all times except when sitting still.

Steering shaft has excessive flex and freeplay due to it's small diameter and sloppy u-joint installations. (oversized holes drilled in shaft w/ undersized bolts)

Coolant overflow hose breakage at main surge tank (hose made from cheap plastic hose)

I am new to the kit car community, but not in the way of performance vehicles. I felt this information should be shared.

To HDR:

This post is not to knock you or your product, nobody is perfect. I am simply informing people of the things that I found.

-Dylan
DS1 Inc.

[BossCER]

Dylan,
I'm curious to know if these things were brought to the attention of the guys at HDR so they could be rectified before you posted. If the problems were not brought to the attention of HDR, how fair is it to make such a post w/out giving a Mfg. the opportunity to correct bugs a basically a brand new vehicle.
Now, with that said, if the problems were in fact brought to the attention of HDR, and nothing was done, maybe the post is justified.

Just my opinion,

Chris

[dscott]

Why do you post after more than a year and a half? Why do you want to discredit a company when you don't have the history from HDR? If there really were problems there is a proper way to handle them and proceed. Your first post on this site and it's bashing. I have worked on many different mfg's cars over the years and I sure don't post negative information about the companies. Solutions are generally worked out with the Mfg especially on a new car.

I have talked to Rick Ellis about this and it's funny the customer had nothing but rave reviews on the car. Maybe you should ask the customer about the rear end that he blew up by doing massive launchs and burnouts in the parking lot. Maybe ask the customer why he insisted on having a tire that was too tall for the car knowing that they would rub.

There's always 2 sides to every story. Your approach isn't right. If the customer is so upset with HDR why doesn't he post the complaints? Sounds like you did ok with the customer unless you did all the work for nothing, which I doubt. Nice business you have. I hope none of my customers bring anything to you for repair.

Don Scott, 25 year shop owner, over 100 turnkey cars built, engines built up to 1100 horsepower, in-shop dyno, fully equipped welding shop, full upholstery shop, R&D department, Mold facilty for 13 different models, drag racer since 1971, crew chief on NHRA super gas 1969 Mustang and 1985 T-Bird. Ran C Gas car in the 70's, Owner of wissota Modifed # 77, Legend # 77, Track steward at local asphalt track, Member of BBB and NFIB, board member of my church, sing in the praise and worship group, brother-in-law is county commisioner, I know the police chief personally, member of several boards such as this one, tech advisor to Kit Car builder magazine, several articles published, new book publisher, avid photographer.

Does this sound ok? I thought since you felt it necessary to tell us the merits of your background I would list a few of mine.

Don

[Chics LI]

I am responding to the post made by Downshift1 about HDR.
I saw this car just after it was completed and painted. I was visiting Rick at HDR after I had sent my car to him for some upgrades. This HDR was built just after mine and had some custom modifications different than mine and looked fantastic. I especially thought the silver with green stripes was a great combination, almost did the same but went with silver and blue stripes.
Now for the workmanship. I am pleased with my car and everyone who has seen my car thought it was top notch. Tubeframe, no bump steer,super suspension and attention to detail. I would say the car is built to aircraft quality standard. I wanted a racecar designed for the track but usable on the street and that is what I got.
As for the headers and sidepipes, big deal. I spray them with high temp. paint. I too had my engine running too rich and Rick changed out my carb.(NC) I know that there is no way you recieved car with no alt. belt. Valve covers leaking, big deal cork sometimes leak. I replaced mine with Earls gaskets after I upgraded my valve covers to Rick' custom covers. My steering shaft is fine and tight as a drum with no play at all.Coolant overflow hose broke, big deal, replace it with a piece of gas line. Rear tires hit body, readjust your coilsprings.
You are complaining about some pretty petty stuff.
I realize there are two sides to every story but this looks like someone is making a mountain out of a mole hill. I get the feeling there is more to this storey than is being told.
I have known Rick Ellis for years, from when I first called to ask about his cars, through the build process, upgrades, advise on some things I would modify etc. No car is perfect. If I had a problem I let him know and it was taken care of ASAP. Never had a problem with him or his company. I trust his car building ability and think his honor is above reproach.
I don't know if your car was abused or trashed or what. I have pushed my car and have had no problems. Minor stuff big deal, even that , Rick was quick to tend to.
If anyone has any doubts contact me. I have no axe to grind only the utmost respect for Rick and yes before you ask, he is my friend and I will stick up for him and his integrity.
Did you try to resolve your issues with Rick before you came here to knock him.This may have been the way to go.

Tom S.

[Van]

I noticed you joined ClubCobra April "06"...your first and only post? Hmmm...sounds like someone put you up to this.

I would venture to say if you ever took the time to visit HDR's web site (HDRCoupe.com) and viewed the inventory list of parts associated with building this auto, you would form a different opinion. In short, there is nothing cheep, second rate, or under engineered about this vehicle.

Van

[Don]

Downshift1:

I have a Don Scott built Classic Roadster along with the 351W engine he built. Don's earned reputation for quality, workmanship and credibility is beyond question. In the Corporate world he would fall into the category of " Exceeds Expectations " and would set the high bar in Jack Welch's GE Performance Management appraisal system.

Don's response offered some excellent/outstanding suggestions......you might want to consider/evaluate the message and proceed accordingly.

My credentials, 45 years as a Manager in a major corporation with the appropiate skill level including problem/conflict resolution and listening.

[HI Cobra]

Don said it - why wait until now to point a finger at a manufacturer for
something you dealt with in 2004? This is 2006, don't forget (especially in
this case) that when you point a finger at someone, you have three more aiming back at you. Something smells funny here.

[STG]

I'm curious. Do you guys know WHERE Highland Daytona Racing is?

The website shows the Powell, Wyoming location in its heyday, but the place has been closed for some time. I have never seen any activity there - just a lonely yellow Cobra body sitting in one of the garage stalls. There is no phone number listed on the website.

[Chics LI]

You can contact HDR or Rick Ellis through his website address hdrcoupe.com

Tom S,

[STG]

Originally Posted by Chics LI

You can contact HDR or Rick Ellis through his website address hdrcoupe.com

Tom S,

But, WHERE IS HDR? Why no phone number?

[Don]

** Location: From HDR web site:

Highland Daytona Racing's Shop, Powell, Wyoming ( In the old firehouse )

http://www.hdrcoupe.com/tour.html

** HDR e-mail

info@hdrcoupe.com

** Contact: Might be that Classic Roadsters II is the " primary " contact, from CR II web site:

http://www.classicroadsters.com/hdr_grandsport.html

" Classic Roadsters II has been granted exclusive rights to market and sell the HDR GranSport Coupe. We've been working with Rick Ellis of HDR to offer a roller version of his turnkey coupe... and today are proud to make available for you a roller version of this legendary automobile "

** Guess on my part, might be the same arrangement as SPF, could have missed on the SPF web site, the factory phone number is not listed, but the Dealer network is identified:

http://superformance.com/dealers.aspx

[STG]

As I posted, the HDR location in Powell, Wyoming has not been open and there hasn't been any signs of activity for quite some time.

If Classic Roadsters II has the "exclusive marketing" rights to the coupe, where is it being manufactured?

Further, the notice says nothing of HDR's Cobra replica.

[dscott]

The building in Powell was sold and HDR moved back to their original location in Billings, Montana. You can either contact me @ Classic Roadsters or use the e-mail from the HDR site to contact Rick.
Don

[bullitts]

dscott;

Since we are asking questions, lets ask Rick Ellis, where his garage is now, where the $55K, sent to him by Jeff Leaver is, or where the alleged Cobra is, where Rick Ellis really lives, where the $14K motor sent to him by Mr. Leaver is,why he lost an $85k lawsuit, and has not paid, and finally if he likes jail clothing..

[dscott]

I love these accusations on the first post. Who are you? I have known Rick for quite awhile and I do not take my business relationships lightly. I know there have been some legal issues thrown at Rick but I'm afraid you are on the wrong side of the fence. A contract written and signed by both parties is a legal document recognized in the USA. A breach of contract is settled in the courts. This is not the place to air such allegations. All it does is take what should be settled in the courts and turns it into a pissing contest. There was no lawsuit won by anyone. A judgement is what you are referring to and under legal advice from HDR's attorney it was not answered. Since June of 2005 HDR has on on-going breach of contract lawsuit against this party.

This information has nothing to do with my business but it does allow people to get the wrong impression about the relationship I have with HDR and Rick. As with any business transaction there will always be people that are not satisfied and will do whatever they think is necessary to discredit the other. Most companies in this industry are small like mine. We are protected by the contracts we sign from both sides. After a car has been partially completed and the customer decides he doesn't want it anymore is not what the contract reads. I sure can't invest time and money in a hand built, custom car and then just refund the money because the customer decides he doesn't want it anymore. I sure wouldn't be around long if that's how easy it was. I know of many other companies that would be in the same boat. I don't know who you are but it would be very easy for me to start some very interesting information on you and then you can scramble to try and defend yourself. Unfortunately the old saying that the "customer is always right" just doesn't hold true in all cases. I know we all as manufacturers try our best to satisfy everyone. I run my business with honesty, and integrity. I know Rick does the same. I will do whatever is in my power to satisfy a customer but sometimes that's just not enough.

If you are going to give hard facts (which you have not) on a public forum then I would suggest you stop with the threats and limit yourself to truths. I trust Rick and I know he builds the finest cars on the market. If you will look at my prior post I clearly said where Rick is located and how to contact him. I will not lower myself any further on this subject.
Don

[bullitts]

Don,
You seem like a "straight-up" guy. These are not accusations, but facts. "Good ol" Rick,has been feeding you the same BS he feeds everyone. He hides behind an e-mail address and doesn't the b-lls to speak to anybody even over a phone. I left him my phone number numerous times, he just sends these obscure BS e-mails about someone in "Switzerland" buying out Mr. Leaver. He has no counter suit against Leaver, mainly beacuse Leaver has filed ,through me, a criminal complaint with our DA's office. As I told him before, when you take someones money and offer either a service or product and do not deliver, its a crime in my state ,California, and I believe its a crime in both Montanna and/or Wyoming. Sincerely,Chief Insp. Mike Derickson Ret. 650-759-1026.

[MuzzleLoader61]

Well I had to finally join this forum after all these yrs of reading it from time to time, just to vent some actual truth here before I imploaded.

Sorry we had to meet like this, but my name is Bill Burhling and Ive been a long time employee of HDR and personal friend of Ricks for most of that time. I know exactly who both of these customers are, and both of them have been problem children since we all first met them. basically we have 2 x-HDR clients in almost 9 yrs time who didnt play by the contract rules, and have since been trying to force their rich guy wills against the little guy, knowing the company didnt have the money to fight back is the beginning and end of this story. One is from CA the other from IL and then one HDR main dealer from CA who has been found steeling and working to back door the company on other stuff behind the scenes. This guy here is pretending to be someone else to get away with slamming us. If I can say one thing about Rick, its that this **** happens because he trusts everybody to much and expects that they will keep their word....Joke

I do know from being there that our company has been jacked around by more wannabee investor type blow hardss, would be sales dealers sceaming and stealing from us, and customers who flat didnt pay their bills on time or at all, or other customers like Mr. Leaver here who held up their own cars production making us custom redesign their cars frames to fit rediculous engine configurations, then on top of that making us wait dam near a year for the engine, then only to flip out on us when the car wasnt done 2 weeks after the engine did finally come after it was already pushed way back in our production schedule, to the point of acusing us of scamming him with absolutely no provication what so ever, then only to threaten Rick and his family with personal violence several times, which Rick actually has in email form, which I have seen myself. funny thing is if this guy knew who rick was in his former life, he wouldnt have been so quick to make threats. Its no wonder Rick dicontinued direct contact with this guy, much less tell him where he lives! In fact we all took this guys threats seriously because it sure seems he was including all of us in his dilusions.

As far as I have been aware, this guy demanded his car back in the 75% completed form some months ago because he didnt want to wait for the new investors who are coming on board before his car was to be completed in its new production spot. I am now told, this guy signed a legal waiver to get his car released in an uncompleted condition, but took like 2 months to get that letter back to HDR. So once again he's holding up his own schedule, but now slamming us in public.

for the questions he's posing about where HDR is. No big secret to people that dont threaten to send Hells Angels to your door for no reason. Rick has been doing some side work for the Army which is somewhat classified, and we have been working on the cars in a limited capacity in a temporary shop along with some other projects while the company expansion and relocation is being planned. I believe there will be a press release on all this soon if that helps.

to get back to why I jumped in here. and I think my next statements have already been up-held from others already who know Rick. he is by far one of the most stand up people I have known. he has treated me and everyone I have ever seen work for us totally awsome, and even treated guys good who didnt diserve it, and he has also stopped us lifer's from stomping on those same employees heads who we found playing fast & loose with our livelyhood. Rick is as black & white as they come, no gray what so ever in him. I will also say that Rick has even treated customers like gold, bending to their every rediculous whim even when they treated him like he was second class. if anything Rick has been overly transparent with people. I think allot of these guys thought we were all rednecks because we were in Montana, and many tried to take advantage of us through that. Well we kinda are, but dont think we're stupid, and dont treat us like that to our faces and expect to get away with it. This guy didnt, and thats why he's mad. Its been our experience that most of these guys must get their way in everything through their lives, and when they dont, they use their money to make your life miserable, and when the money doesnt work either, they obviously resort to joining clubs and bashing/slandering people in public.

I can go on and on about this, but I will close saying this. I spent 8yrs on the LAPD, and after that several yrs w/LAFD, then relocated to MT to decompress. I can say that if there was anyone guy I would want next to me going through a door in LA or Iraq, it be Rick hands down. and I dont say that **** lightly. Ricks the real deal, and anyone who truly knows him for even a short time comes to believe this same truth.

Please excuse my spelling, i never type and this took forever to get down here.

So, myself included, all the one time posters need to just go home now.
BB

[Buzzmobile]

I know nothing about any of this...except....anyone who shoots muzzleloaders has to be a good guy! been competing with them since I was 8

Buzz

[STG]

Originally Posted by bullitts

dscott;

Since we are asking questions, lets ask Rick Ellis, where his garage is now, where the $55K, sent to him by Jeff Leaver is, or where the alleged Cobra is, where Rick Ellis really lives, where the $14K motor sent to him by Mr. Leaver is,why he lost an $85k lawsuit, and has not paid, and finally if he likes jail clothing..

This is the new Park County Law Enforcement Center and County Jail. I don't know anything specific about the jail clothing.

[dscott]

Rick is not a real big guy so I hope they don't make him wear this! I would hate to see him as someone's *itch.
Don