Title of Cobra Replica needed.

[Eljaro]

I need a title of any Cobra replica build or with a first registration before 1990.
No matter if the car is totaled, partially build, frame only or does physically not exist. All I need is a valid title and a bill of sale.
Contact me by PM only.
Eljaro

[twobjshelbys]

Oh boy, I don't even want to ask what's going on with this one.

[Eljaro]

Oh boy, I don't even want to ask what's going on with this one

.

[twobjshelbys]

How is someone else's title going to legitimize a different one??? In this country what you're doing would likely be fraud.

A "kit" has no manufacturing date. What it replicates is 1965, when the one you're speaking of was made is anyone's guess. The rules for what applies to replicas (not just Cobras) is way different in Europe, but without the original title and paperwork for the kit there is no way to verify the age of the vehicle you're trying to legitimize.

And what happens when the VIN of the car you're working on doesn't match the one on the paperwork?

Run, don't walk.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Eljaro

I need a title of any Cobra replica build or with a first registration before 1990.
No matter if the car is totaled, partially build, frame only or does physically not exist. All I need is a valid title and a bill of sale.
Contact me by PM only.
Eljaro

What your asking for here in the states could get someone jail time.

Even if someone is stupid enough to respond to you via PM, it's going to be a crapshoot, as the VIN for the cobra replica your friend has, and the fraudulent title received from an idiot here, will not match. How will you explain the disparity between the two, as the authorities in Spain will check. I have experience with this and a replica a friend sold to someone in Barcelona with a US based title that read "1965 Ford Cobra". The VIN on the title did not match what was stamped into the frame. Year + long investigation, lots of back and forth between the US and Spain legal system. Car was ultimately destroyed. Granted this was back in 2002/2004, but I'm doubting that anything in regards to this has changed.


Bill S.

[34fords]

Hemmings Motor News , Auto round up and other automotive type trade type magazines have people that advertise that they sell titles for all kinds of cars and it is legal. Yes the title does need to match the vin on the car. They sell those tags also.

[twobjshelbys]

So get a title and stamp a new vin on the frame. Throw a little acid to rust it up. Noone will ever notice. Until the air car comes up for sale again.

In the old west people got hung for altering brands on cows and horses.

Run from this

[Eljaro]

problem solved,thanks for all the tips.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Eljaro

Nothing illegal here. If someone has a title of a wrecked or totaled car or no car at all, he can sell it.

Maybe in Spain, but not here in the United States of America. Here it is a federal level offense, one that can come with jail time and hefty fines.

Sorry, but if you find someone foolish enough to offer you a title, for a car that no longer exists, or they say no longer exists, then they do not realize the risks, as when the out of country title is submitted, it will eventually have to be authenticated with import/export documentation, which will lead to both countries auditing the trail to see how they missed a car going out, and then coming in to your country.

But you are, right, and we are wrong. I'm really hoping you are not that naive, just desperate to avoid the laws in your own country. Especially given the very public warnings posted here on this forum warning you against such.

But you know better about the laws here in the US than we do, right?


Bill S.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Maybe in Spain, but not here in the United States of America. Here it is a federal level offense, one that can come with jail time and hefty fines.

Sorry, but if you find someone foolish enough to offer you a title, for a car that no longer exists, or they say no longer exists, then they do not realize the risks, as when the out of country title is submitted, it will eventually have to be authenticated with import/export documentation, which will lead to both countries auditing the trail to see how they missed a car going out, and then coming in to your country.

But you are, right, and we are wrong. I'm really hoping you are not that naive, just desperate to avoid the laws in your own country. Especially given the very public warnings posted here on this forum warning you against such.

But you know better about the laws here in the US than we do, right?


Bill S.

Do you really believe a word of that load? Many vehicles with duplicate VINs? I have a Ferrari La Ferrari but I want to keep it pristine so I'll clone a copy and drive that. It doesn't work with diamonds - the pastes are always discovered. Cars? Come on.

I hope noone falls for this scam.

Maybe time to have this one disappear?

Note to self: Never buy a classic car that might have ever seen any kind of paperwork in Spain. It's not real.

[34fords]

In my post I didn't say steal a car and buy a title, that would be illegal.
Here in the US there are plenty of Cobras, fiberglass street rods and others that are on the road with purchased titles.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by 34fords

Here in the US there are plenty of Cobras, fiberglass street rods and others that are on the road with purchased titles.

Those loopholes have been closed for years.......The titles unlimited vs the state of California did them in. Those companies that offer such services these days do so at their own peril. Potentially having to answer to the Federal government in two separate countries, and having a large microscope shoved up or down a specific set of orifices, is not something I would want to happen to me. The OP, per his own admission above, being so familiar with the car export/import business, should just contact those companies that a google search shows him and do it directly for himself, or "his friend" and leave those of us in the US to not have to do his dirty work for him.

Bill S.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Those loopholes have been closed for years.......The titles unlimited vs the state of California did them in. Those companies that offer such services these days do so at their own peril. Potentially having to answer to the Federal government in two separate countries, and having a large microscope shoved up or down a specific set of orifices, is not something I would want to happen to me. The OP, per his own admission above, being so familiar with the car export/import business, should just contact those companies that a google search shows him and do it directly for himself, or "his friend" and leave those of us in the US to not have to do his dirty work for him.

Bill S.

This one?

Attorney General Lockyer Obtains Conviction in Massive Vehicle Registration Fraud Case
False Title and Registration Scam Costs State Millions in Lost Tax Revenues, Fees

April 7, 2004

04-042
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
(916) 324-5500

(SACRAMENTO) – Attorney General Bill Lockyer today announced an Alabama man was convicted on Friday of felony charges for issuing false vehicle titles in a scam that has cost the State of California millions of dollars in lost tax revenues and license fees.

"This illegal operation provided false information regarding the purchase of expensive vehicles to hundreds of Californians, which allowed them to avoid smog requirements and pay reduced sales taxes and vehicle registration fees," Lockyer said. "At a time when California and its residents are forced to confront painful budget choices, these scam artists defrauded the state and all law-abiding taxpayers who have done their part to get through our economic slump. We will continue to investigate to ensure these tax cheats are brought to justice."

Richard Clark Weaver, 56, of Birmingham, Alabama, was convicted of providing fraudulent vehicle purchase agreements to California residents. The agreements, which were obtained for a $200 fee by mail, falsely indicated the year the vehicle was manufactured and that it had been purchased from Weaver at a low price. With these false documents, Californians were then able to avoid smog regulations and register their vehicles at a lower value, resulting in the loss of millions of tax dollars and registration fees. Weaver's company, Titles Unlimited, is believed to have provided false documents to Californians that cost the state more than $1 million in tax revenues and license fees over the past two years, and as much as $14 million since 1975, when the company began operating.

Weaver was convicted by Sacramento Superior Court Judge James Morris on April 2 on felony charges of offering false registration documents. He is scheduled to be sentenced May 7, and faces up to three years in California prison. In addition to his prison sentence, he may also be required to forfeit the profits he made from issuing false documents for 613 vehicles in California.

Of the 613 vehicles identified as having been licensed in California with documents from Titles Unlimited since 1999, more than 150 were Cobra "kit" or "replica" cars. These specially constructed vehicles typically are built out of components from several manufacturers and do not have a vehicle identification number assigned to the whole vehicle. The "kit cars" were purchased for $40,000-$60,000, yet were usually registered as older Fords in California with a value of $500. In one incident, a Cobra was purchased for $120,000, but was registered as a $70,000 1964 Ford to avoid state fees and smog requirements. The Attorney General's Office conservatively estimates that the loss to the state in taxes and license fees for just those 150 "kit cars" is at least $500,000.

The investigation began in October 2001 when the Yolo County District Attorney's Office began looking into the fraudulent registration of a 2000 Superperformance Cobra that had been titled in Alabama. Former Woodland police officer Terry Brown purchased the vehicle without an engine or transmission for $37,480. He installed a new Ford MotorSprot 351/392 CID 430-horsepower engine, bringing the value of the completed vehicle to $51,358.

For a $200 fee, Brown purchased an application for a bill of sale with Titles Unlimited, which registered his vehicle in Alabama as a 1965 Ford Cobra convertible valued at $13,500, and then reconveyed the title to Brown. Brown then used that document to fraudulently register his vehicle in California. The Attorney General's Office prosecuted Brown, who pled guilty in April 2002 to making a false statement to the Department of Motor Vehicles. Brown was required to perform 80 hours of community service, correctly register his vehicle and pay $655 in registration fees and $2,375 in taxes.

The Attorney General's Office continued investigating Titles Unlimited, enlisting the help of the Sacramento Valley Hi-Tech Crimes Task Force, which includes attorneys and agents from the Attorney General's Office and deputies the Sacramento County Sheriff's Office. The California Highway Patrol assisted in the investigation, helping to serve 20 search warrants on Californians who had registered their cars with documents from Titles Unlimited.

On Friday, Judge Morris also issued arrest warrants for four Californians who sold replicas and helped their customers avoid smog requirements and fraudulently register their cars in California using false documents and forged vehicle identification numbers. Warrants were issued for Lance Stander and Kimberly Marie Calder, both of Tustin, owner and employee, respectively, of Hilbank Motor Corp. in Costa Mesa; Dean Alan Woodruff of Alta Loma, owner of Woodruff's House of Cobras in Anaheim; and Craig Hill of Livermore, owner of Top of the Hill Performance Center in Livermore.

To date, the on-going investigation has identified at least five other out-of-state companies that have provided fraudulent vehicle purchase agreements and titles to California vehicle owners. The companies are in Alabama, Nevada, New York and Florida. The Attorney General's Office believes as many as 70,000 vehicles have been illegally registered in California through these scam operations.

The California Department of Motor Vehicles is in the process of canceling registrations that involve documents obtained from Titles Unlimited. The Attorney General's Office also has notified law enforcement officials in more than 20 counties regarding residents who titled their cars through the company for possible prosecution.

Source: https://www.ffcars.com/threads/title...-named.100133/

[eschaider]

Anyone who participates with the OP in this thread is essentially playing Russian Roulette with more than one bullet in the gun! A high risk scenario with one bullet, let alone multiple cartridges.

[Steve Gallegos]

In 2008, I bought a new Backdraft from a dealer near San Deigo. He said he would take care of the registration. He had a woman that registers all his cars for him. The cost for taxes and such was $5000.00. This woman I found out was getting bill of sales from wrecked early fords and using them to register the cars. The AG of California found out and notified the CHP to send out letters that our lic plates had been suspended and our cars would/could be impounded. This was one of the most scariest situations I have ever been in. They threatened to arrest me, fine me and take away my car. Fortunately, there was a person, a car guy, in the state government that was aware of this and informed those of us that fell into this situation how to go about registering our car correctly, getting us out of this problem. Thank god for him. I went through the SB100 process without a problem because I kept all my paper work on the car.

[mrmustang]

Yes, and I'll add something that was not in place at the time of that suit. The inclusion of a national database now shared between states needs to be mentioned, as all states can now access most, if not all documentation by running a VIN. In addition to this, all automobiles being exported, and/or imported to or from the US are now entered into the same database. Think carefully before you play games like the OP (who is located out of the country) is requesting you to do.

Bill S.

PS: Notice my post #7 dated Apr 26, 2004

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

This one?

Attorney General Lockyer Obtains Conviction in Massive Vehicle Registration Fraud Case
False Title and Registration Scam Costs State Millions in Lost Tax Revenues, Fees

April 7, 2004

04-042
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
(916) 324-5500

(SACRAMENTO) – Attorney General Bill Lockyer today announced an Alabama man was convicted on Friday of felony charges for issuing false vehicle titles in a scam that has cost the State of California millions of dollars in lost tax revenues and license fees.

"This illegal operation provided false information regarding the purchase of expensive vehicles to hundreds of Californians, which allowed them to avoid smog requirements and pay reduced sales taxes and vehicle registration fees," Lockyer said. "At a time when California and its residents are forced to confront painful budget choices, these scam artists defrauded the state and all law-abiding taxpayers who have done their part to get through our economic slump. We will continue to investigate to ensure these tax cheats are brought to justice."

Richard Clark Weaver, 56, of Birmingham, Alabama, was convicted of providing fraudulent vehicle purchase agreements to California residents. The agreements, which were obtained for a $200 fee by mail, falsely indicated the year the vehicle was manufactured and that it had been purchased from Weaver at a low price. With these false documents, Californians were then able to avoid smog regulations and register their vehicles at a lower value, resulting in the loss of millions of tax dollars and registration fees. Weaver's company, Titles Unlimited, is believed to have provided false documents to Californians that cost the state more than $1 million in tax revenues and license fees over the past two years, and as much as $14 million since 1975, when the company began operating.

Weaver was convicted by Sacramento Superior Court Judge James Morris on April 2 on felony charges of offering false registration documents. He is scheduled to be sentenced May 7, and faces up to three years in California prison. In addition to his prison sentence, he may also be required to forfeit the profits he made from issuing false documents for 613 vehicles in California.

Of the 613 vehicles identified as having been licensed in California with documents from Titles Unlimited since 1999, more than 150 were Cobra "kit" or "replica" cars. These specially constructed vehicles typically are built out of components from several manufacturers and do not have a vehicle identification number assigned to the whole vehicle. The "kit cars" were purchased for $40,000-$60,000, yet were usually registered as older Fords in California with a value of $500. In one incident, a Cobra was purchased for $120,000, but was registered as a $70,000 1964 Ford to avoid state fees and smog requirements. The Attorney General's Office conservatively estimates that the loss to the state in taxes and license fees for just those 150 "kit cars" is at least $500,000.

The investigation began in October 2001 when the Yolo County District Attorney's Office began looking into the fraudulent registration of a 2000 Superperformance Cobra that had been titled in Alabama. Former Woodland police officer Terry Brown purchased the vehicle without an engine or transmission for $37,480. He installed a new Ford MotorSprot 351/392 CID 430-horsepower engine, bringing the value of the completed vehicle to $51,358.

For a $200 fee, Brown purchased an application for a bill of sale with Titles Unlimited, which registered his vehicle in Alabama as a 1965 Ford Cobra convertible valued at $13,500, and then reconveyed the title to Brown. Brown then used that document to fraudulently register his vehicle in California. The Attorney General's Office prosecuted Brown, who pled guilty in April 2002 to making a false statement to the Department of Motor Vehicles. Brown was required to perform 80 hours of community service, correctly register his vehicle and pay $655 in registration fees and $2,375 in taxes.

The Attorney General's Office continued investigating Titles Unlimited, enlisting the help of the Sacramento Valley Hi-Tech Crimes Task Force, which includes attorneys and agents from the Attorney General's Office and deputies the Sacramento County Sheriff's Office. The California Highway Patrol assisted in the investigation, helping to serve 20 search warrants on Californians who had registered their cars with documents from Titles Unlimited.

On Friday, Judge Morris also issued arrest warrants for four Californians who sold replicas and helped their customers avoid smog requirements and fraudulently register their cars in California using false documents and forged vehicle identification numbers. Warrants were issued for Lance Stander and Kimberly Marie Calder, both of Tustin, owner and employee, respectively, of Hilbank Motor Corp. in Costa Mesa; Dean Alan Woodruff of Alta Loma, owner of Woodruff's House of Cobras in Anaheim; and Craig Hill of Livermore, owner of Top of the Hill Performance Center in Livermore.

To date, the on-going investigation has identified at least five other out-of-state companies that have provided fraudulent vehicle purchase agreements and titles to California vehicle owners. The companies are in Alabama, Nevada, New York and Florida. The Attorney General's Office believes as many as 70,000 vehicles have been illegally registered in California through these scam operations.

The California Department of Motor Vehicles is in the process of canceling registrations that involve documents obtained from Titles Unlimited. The Attorney General's Office also has notified law enforcement officials in more than 20 counties regarding residents who titled their cars through the company for possible prosecution.

Source: https://www.ffcars.com/threads/title...-named.100133/

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

This one?

Attorney General Lockyer Obtains Conviction in Massive Vehicle Registration Fraud Case
False Title and Registration Scam Costs State Millions in Lost Tax Revenues, Fees

April 7, 2004

04-042
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
(916) 324-5500

(SACRAMENTO) – Attorney General Bill Lockyer today announced an Alabama man was convicted on Friday of felony charges for issuing false vehicle titles in a scam that has cost the State of California millions of dollars in lost tax revenues and license fees.

"This illegal operation provided false information regarding the purchase of expensive vehicles to hundreds of Californians, which allowed them to avoid smog requirements and pay reduced sales taxes and vehicle registration fees," Lockyer said. "At a time when California and its residents are forced to confront painful budget choices, these scam artists defrauded the state and all law-abiding taxpayers who have done their part to get through our economic slump. We will continue to investigate to ensure these tax cheats are brought to justice."

Richard Clark Weaver, 56, of Birmingham, Alabama, was convicted of providing fraudulent vehicle purchase agreements to California residents. The agreements, which were obtained for a $200 fee by mail, falsely indicated the year the vehicle was manufactured and that it had been purchased from Weaver at a low price. With these false documents, Californians were then able to avoid smog regulations and register their vehicles at a lower value, resulting in the loss of millions of tax dollars and registration fees. Weaver's company, Titles Unlimited, is believed to have provided false documents to Californians that cost the state more than $1 million in tax revenues and license fees over the past two years, and as much as $14 million since 1975, when the company began operating.

Weaver was convicted by Sacramento Superior Court Judge James Morris on April 2 on felony charges of offering false registration documents. He is scheduled to be sentenced May 7, and faces up to three years in California prison. In addition to his prison sentence, he may also be required to forfeit the profits he made from issuing false documents for 613 vehicles in California.

Of the 613 vehicles identified as having been licensed in California with documents from Titles Unlimited since 1999, more than 150 were Cobra "kit" or "replica" cars. These specially constructed vehicles typically are built out of components from several manufacturers and do not have a vehicle identification number assigned to the whole vehicle. The "kit cars" were purchased for $40,000-$60,000, yet were usually registered as older Fords in California with a value of $500. In one incident, a Cobra was purchased for $120,000, but was registered as a $70,000 1964 Ford to avoid state fees and smog requirements. The Attorney General's Office conservatively estimates that the loss to the state in taxes and license fees for just those 150 "kit cars" is at least $500,000.

The investigation began in October 2001 when the Yolo County District Attorney's Office began looking into the fraudulent registration of a 2000 Superperformance Cobra that had been titled in Alabama. Former Woodland police officer Terry Brown purchased the vehicle without an engine or transmission for $37,480. He installed a new Ford MotorSprot 351/392 CID 430-horsepower engine, bringing the value of the completed vehicle to $51,358.

For a $200 fee, Brown purchased an application for a bill of sale with Titles Unlimited, which registered his vehicle in Alabama as a 1965 Ford Cobra convertible valued at $13,500, and then reconveyed the title to Brown. Brown then used that document to fraudulently register his vehicle in California. The Attorney General's Office prosecuted Brown, who pled guilty in April 2002 to making a false statement to the Department of Motor Vehicles. Brown was required to perform 80 hours of community service, correctly register his vehicle and pay $655 in registration fees and $2,375 in taxes.

The Attorney General's Office continued investigating Titles Unlimited, enlisting the help of the Sacramento Valley Hi-Tech Crimes Task Force, which includes attorneys and agents from the Attorney General's Office and deputies the Sacramento County Sheriff's Office. The California Highway Patrol assisted in the investigation, helping to serve 20 search warrants on Californians who had registered their cars with documents from Titles Unlimited.

On Friday, Judge Morris also issued arrest warrants for four Californians who sold replicas and helped their customers avoid smog requirements and fraudulently register their cars in California using false documents and forged vehicle identification numbers. Warrants were issued for Lance Stander and Kimberly Marie Calder, both of Tustin, owner and employee, respectively, of Hilbank Motor Corp. in Costa Mesa; Dean Alan Woodruff of Alta Loma, owner of Woodruff's House of Cobras in Anaheim; and Craig Hill of Livermore, owner of Top of the Hill Performance Center in Livermore.

To date, the on-going investigation has identified at least five other out-of-state companies that have provided fraudulent vehicle purchase agreements and titles to California vehicle owners. The companies are in Alabama, Nevada, New York and Florida. The Attorney General's Office believes as many as 70,000 vehicles have been illegally registered in California through these scam operations.

The California Department of Motor Vehicles is in the process of canceling registrations that involve documents obtained from Titles Unlimited. The Attorney General's Office also has notified law enforcement officials in more than 20 counties regarding residents who titled their cars through the company for possible prosecution.

Source: https://www.ffcars.com/threads/title...-named.100133/

Some of the names mentioned here are quite a surprise. Never ran across this before.

Is this the batch of cars that are the ones frequently mentioned about fraudulent registrations? In the end the owners of these were (most likely) not knowing participants and just going backwards and fixing it was appropriate.

Is there a follow up with sentences and disposition???


I bought my car at Barrett Jackson in 2009. BJ is a licensed automobile dealer wherever they hold auctions. BJ takes the title from the owner and sign it to the new owner - ie, they don't re-title before the auction - so I got the original California title endorsed to me on the back - standard used car dealer practice. Now remember my car was imported from Mexico by a San Diego dealer (who I assume worked closely with HST to bring it back to the US). That title clearly listed the VIN as CXX4005LA. Others have said it was not possible. But I have (and posted) a copy of the title. How that dealer got it that way is no concern of mine. If the CA DMV issued it incorrectly that's their problem not mine. At any rate, CO accepted the CA title and it retained the CSX4005LA VIN.

[eschaider]

I think we need more government control ...

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by eschaider

I think we need more government control ...

You voted for Pelosi, didn't you

[MKS427]

Originally Posted by 34fords

In my post I didn't say steal a car and buy a title, that would be illegal.
Here in the US there are plenty of Cobras, fiberglass street rods and others that are on the road with purchased titles.

WHAT?! In AZ at least, when you build a kit car, you DO NOT provide a false title to the state. You take your certificate of origin (from the kit manufacturer) and all of your receipts (to ensure no stolen parts and establish value for the taxman) and you're assigned a VIN by the state.
That said, the laws in Spain can certainly be different than here. However, questionable documentation will always raise a red flag for me. Someone could lay claim to that title down the road and guess what...