767Jockey -- Build Thread Update? - Page 2

Jerry Clayton · #21 (**permalink**) 05-28-2009, 07:49 AM

In the mean time---why don't you use the ford block you have???

ERA Chas · #22 (**permalink**) 05-28-2009, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hi-tech cobra

ERA Chas,
You forgot to include Dove.

Hey, whatever happened with the Kirkham FE block project? Is it still on hold?

Thanks, you're right hi-tech, forgot him but Dove doesn't cast iron blocks, which is what Jockey has.
Kirkham could probably do a billet block sooner than their cast block.

767Jockey · #23 (**permalink**) 05-28-2009, 08:56 AM

Yeah, I know, you guys are right. No name from now on, I just lost my patience for a second. Patrick, that's about the same scenario my attorney laid out for me. The question now is when do I pull the trigger on the legal papers. It'll be sson, I've gone about as far as I can with this guy trying to be a gentleman. You said in an earlier posting that I have lots of patience.....well, its just about gone now.

Keithc8 · #24 (**permalink**) 06-01-2009, 12:35 AM

This is what Tim at Genesis does on most all problems. You can never get him to call you back and he says he is going to do all sorts of suff and does not. I say just tell the truth and do the right thing. This is why we pressure check every block we get from anyone these days. Your story is not that uncommon when dealing with these people.
I know that Robert Pond is working on his cast iron block program and hopes to have up to speed in about a month. I have had some of his cast iron blocks already and they were pretty good but he is making more changes to make it better. At least if someone has a problem he calls them back.
You would think that after 5 years or so of making a cast iron block they could get it right. Let me know if we can install 8 sleeves in the block and help you save it. Also tell your machine shop to make sure that they pressure check all of their blocks before they machine them.
Let me know if we can help in any way. Thanks, Keith

patrickt · #25 (**permalink**) 06-01-2009, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithc8

You would think that after 5 years or so of making a cast iron block they could get it right.

That has been my feeling since the beginning of this thread. Now I realize that while pouring an iron block in to a sand mold is not the same as baking a cake, you would indeed think that after five friggin' years of baking the same cake day after day your quality assurance would be pretty high. Not to mention the fact that you're leaving your customers high and dry because of your lousy product. Doug, it might be time to consider "piercing the corporate veil" and including this fella as a defendant in his individual capacity -- I think his conduct in this debacle just might justify that move.

767Jockey · #26 (**permalink**) 06-01-2009, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithc8

This is what Tim at Genesis does on most all problems. You can never get him to call you back and he says he is going to do all sorts of suff and does not. I say just tell the truth and do the right thing. This is why we pressure check every block we get from anyone these days. Your story is not that uncommon when dealing with these people.
I know that Robert Pond is working on his cast iron block program and hopes to have up to speed in about a month. I have had some of his cast iron blocks already and they were pretty good but he is making more changes to make it better. At least if someone has a problem he calls them back.
You would think that after 5 years or so of making a cast iron block they could get it right. Let me know if we can install 8 sleeves in the block and help you save it. Also tell your machine shop to make sure that they pressure check all of their blocks before they machine them.
Let me know if we can help in any way. Thanks, Keith

Thanks, Keith - the frustration this is causing is indescribable. The conduct that you describe is EXACTLY what is happening. I can't ever get him on the phone, in the dozens (yes, DOZENS) of messages I have left him I have not received one single return call. On the very rare occasion I get him to actually answer his phone, he promises me EVERYTHING and then he does absolutely nothing. You have obviously dealt with this guy before. I had a friend who is a lawyer who was going to represent me for free on this, and now he's had a major medical problem and won't be able to. This is just getting worse and worse.

767Jockey · #27 (**permalink**) 06-01-2009, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

That has been my feeling since the beginning of this thread. Now I realize that while pouring an iron block in to a sand mold is not the same as baking a cake, you would indeed think that after five friggin' years of baking the same cake day after day your quality assurance would be pretty high. Not to mention the fact that you're leaving your customers high and dry because of your lousy product. Doug, it might be time to consider "piercing the corporate veil" and including this fella as a defendant in his individual capacity -- I think his conduct in this debacle just might justify that move.

It's time to pull the legal trigger on this, Patrick - I agree with you. The problem now is the cost. I lost my lawyer friend who was going to do this for free to a medical issue, now I have to find an attorney en see what it's all going to cost to go after this guy. I imagine it's very easy to pile up legal bills that will exceed the cost of the block and the machining involved. I guess he knows this and it emboldens his behavior. I've never sued anyone, it's just not my style, but I guess the time has come where I have to. This guy is just incredible.

patrickt · #28 (**permalink**) 06-01-2009, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

It's time to pull the legal trigger on this, Patrick - I agree with you. The problem now is the cost. I lost my lawyer friend who was going to do this for free to a medical issue, now I have to find an attorney en see what it's all going to cost to go after this guy. I imagine it's very easy to pile up legal bills that will exceed the cost of the block and the machining involved. I guess he knows this and it emboldens his behavior. I've never sued anyone, it's just not my style, but I guess the time has come where I have to. This guy is just incredible.

Call your local bar association's lawyer referral service and ask for the name of a general practioner with about 10 years experience or less. This is not a difficult case, nor are we talking Madison Avenue M&A lawyer fees. I think if you try the "send him the pleadings" move with him named personally as a defendant, allege a fraud count, ask for punitives, that will motivate him to settle. IMO, he will not settle without a gun to his head (metaphorically speaking, of course).

ZOERA-SC7XX · #29 (**permalink**) 06-02-2009, 05:50 PM

I've been comtemplating a 427 for my ERA in the near future. At least I know who I will NOT do business with. This sort of thing can hurt the manufacturer more than he may realize, as much of the automotive hobby business is based on recommendation.
Good luck with your plight.
P.S. I'm a believer in sleeved blocks. Maybe KC has a good idea there.

ERA Chas · #30 (**permalink**) 06-02-2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZOERA-SC7XX

I've been comtemplating a 427 for my ERA in the near future. At least I know who I will NOT do business with. This sort of thing can hurt the manufacturer more than he may realize, as much of the automotive hobby business is based on recommendation.
Good luck with your plight.
P.S. I'm a believer in sleeved blocks. Maybe KC has a good idea there.

Doug,
I know you got your hands full but this is exactly why I asked you to ID the problem guy. ZO is ready to spend money and your info is most helpful.
He's also right, that KC or Barry R. can make it right for probably much less than pursuing Tim. Maybe Barry can chime in and provide a helpful insight???

767Jockey · #31 (**permalink**) 06-02-2009, 06:50 PM

Guys - hang in there for just a few more days. I actually got a return phone call today (the first time in 2 months) and I may be heading for a resolution. We'll see. I've heard the promises before.

767Jockey · #32 (**permalink**) 06-02-2009, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Doug,
I know you got your hands full but this is exactly why I asked you to ID the problem guy. ZO is ready to spend money and your info is most helpful.
He's also right, that KC or Barry R. can make it right for probably much less than pursuing Tim. Maybe Barry can chime in and provide a helpful insight???

PM sent to ZOERA with details on who NOT to buy a block directly from. Again, please bear with me while I struggle to try to make myself whole on this incredibly frustrating and bad transaction. Two months and counting.....

767Jockey · #33 (**permalink**) 06-13-2009, 02:34 PM

OK, quick update on the progress, or lack thereof, for those who have asked or are interested. It seems that the person who I have been dealing with is one of the founders of the company that manufactured the block, but is no longer an owner, but instead now an "employee" The company was sold some time ago, and last week I was finally able to make contact with the true owner of the company. He was certainly more forthcoming than the previously represented "owner" (really just an employee). On of the first things he did was to give me all of his contact numbers and email address, so I am now done with getting the runaround from his rep. I deal with him only from this point on. I have already heard from him numerous times in the past week or so, significantly more than I heard from his rep in the past two months. The owner was disturbed to say the least at all that I told him regarding the difficulties in reaching his representative, the lack of action taken to remedy the problem, as well as the rep passing himself off as an owner. I told him some of the remedies that the rep has offered me, and he was less than thrilled. He claims that his rep was in no way authorized to make me these offers of remedy, in which case my reply was that I have no way of knowing what his rep is authorized to say, that is an internal problem between him and his rep.

The bottom line is, the pick up tag for my defective block was issued one day after I spoke with the owner. I have been attempting to get this block picked up for almost two months through his rep to no avail, so that the fact that we finally got a pickup tag issued after only one phone call in and of itself is progress. I left off with the owner that he would look at the block and we would discuss remedies than. This seems reasonable to me. He seems to have no issue with believing that the block is defective, he only wants to see it for himself, which seems reasonable to me. One thing he mentioned was the possibility of sleeving this block. I have no interest in sleeving this block, as it's a brand new block and I paid full price for it. Every cylinder in it is bad showing significant porosity spots in each of them, and sleeving every cylinder in the block holds no interest to me. We'll see where it goes from here, it's still a disaster but at least we seem to be moving forward. To where, I don't know!

patrickt · #34 (**permalink**) 06-13-2009, 03:46 PM

OK, so is this an accurate one-sentence summary: "Owner says send it back to him, he'll look at it, and then we'll talk."

767Jockey · #35 (**permalink**) 06-13-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

OK, so is this an accurate one-sentence summary: "Owner says send it back to him, he'll look at it, and then we'll talk."

That's where we're at, Patrick. The only real development is that I don't have to deal with the elusive and evasive rep anymore- I have a direct line to the owner. At least he answers the phone and he also returns calls promptly.

patrickt · #36 (**permalink**) 06-13-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

That's where we're at, Patrick. The only real development is that I don't have to deal with the elusive and evasive rep anymore- I have a direct line to the owner. At least he answers the phone and he also returns calls promptly.

Who is paying the freight to transport the block back so this guy can see it?

767Jockey · #37 (**permalink**) 06-13-2009, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

Who is paying the freight to transport the block back so this guy can see it?

They are - they issued a tag for shipping. My machinist was nice enough to re-palletize the block and bring it to a shipping terminal to save them a few bucks - sort of a goodwill gesture.

1985 CCX · #38 (**permalink**) 06-14-2009, 11:34 AM

Guess this is why KC gets a premium price for build? He goes through all this for you.

ZOERA-SC7XX · #39 (**permalink**) 06-14-2009, 01:02 PM

I'm following your plight. I hope these guys take care of you. There's no excuse for you having to deal with this crap. Good luck.

RICK LAKE · #40 (**permalink**) 06-15-2009, 03:54 AM

767Jockey If are going to get another new block, ask them to bore the cylinders to spec. This way the only thing your machinist has to do is a final hone job with the correct stones to match the piston rings. Just a thought??

Rick L. Ps I am sure they will sleeve and sell the block going back to someone else. There should not be any loss except for the shipping to the company. I hope they fired the putz.