What happened to the Brock Coupe?

[Cobra Lite]

For those of us who wonder...

I am guessing that Shelby used his screwdriver to cut Peter Brock out of the replica association. Even though Brock said there was no original lines in the new Coupe that he designed for Superformance. It was the car he wanted to build, better in every way than the originals.

Anyone know the details?

I hope Brock was well compensated as he is a truly nice guy and a very talented engineer. Unlike a certain very slick salesman who is a great guy, until you don't give him a percentage of your work. I wonder how many businesses CS has put out of business with his many lawsuits? Was AC the first? I seem to recall that he sued them when they continued selling Cobras after he stopped buying from them. That lawsuit cost them so much they could never recover.

[lovehamr]

It's not like I really know but it sure does seem CheeSy to me as well.

[Gunner]

My understanding is that Unca is going to produce his own, better, original, continuation, completion - and, oh yeah, REAL - coupes. Um, eventually. Maybe. Maybe after he's done with the third new GT350 iteration.

So sorry to SPF and Pete for all the hard work and engineering that went into an extremely fine homage car, but Unca says, "Sit!"

[Excaliber]

It is to bad Peter doesn't get more recognition for this project. I figure it might be like an engineer or designer who works or is commissioned to work for a company. When done he doesn't own the rights, the company that hired him does. If said company then sell's those rights to someone else, say Shelby, then Shelby owns it.

[lovehamr]

Hey Ex, nice avatar. You tryin' to say something?

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I figure it might be like an engineer or designer who works or is commissioned to work for a company. When done he doesn't own the rights, the company that hired him does. If said company then sell's those rights to someone else, say Shelby, then Shelby owns it.

The history of Unca Carroll, in three sentences. Bravo.

[Wild Card 289]

The Brock Coupe is still the Brock Coupe.

The fact that Peter Brock put his heart and soul into 2287 in 1963, and then, around forty years later was prepared to go through that process all over again, makes him the man behind the car. As far as I know CS was nowhere to be seen as the Brock Coupe was being developed.

The owners that I have come in contact with, since buying one of these relatively exclusive cars (150 worldwide) generally proudly refer to their cars as Brock Coupes.

I expect the MkII´s will have a hard time shaking off being referred to in the same way.

[Don]

From the BRE Newsletter:

Brock Racing Enterprises:

SPC073 with Chevy LS7 Surprises
100 mile test drive report impresses even us

" Very informal, initial tests of our Coupe with its newly installed Chevy LS7, show that acceleration may be better than the best GT2 cars in the ALMS race series! Most improved is the mid-range performance. The electronically controlled fuel injection is proving to be extremely more fuel efficient than the carburated system previously used. Mileage should be significantly better and that combined with the Coupe's superior aero is a combination that should make the car better than most super cars on the market today.

We knew it would be good, but even that feedback took us by surprise. "

http://bre2.net/index.php?section=1

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Cobra Lite

For those of us who wonder...

I am guessing that Shelby used his screwdriver to cut Peter Brock out of the replica association. Even though Brock said there was no original lines in the new Coupe that he designed for Superformance. It was the car he wanted to build, better in every way than the originals.

Anyone know the details?

I hope Brock was well compensated as he is a truly nice guy and a very talented engineer. Unlike a certain very slick salesman who is a great guy, until you don't give him a percentage of your work. I wonder how many businesses CS has put out of business with his many lawsuits? Was AC the first? I seem to recall that he sued them when they continued selling Cobras after he stopped buying from them. That lawsuit cost them so much they could never recover.

I doubt that the Shelby lawsuit against AC killed them. I think Brian counter sued Shelby as well. I suspect that Brian trying to build his own brand new up to date car over-extended him and was one of the main reasons that killed AC. Ford owned part of AC and at some point, but pulled out too. I believe Brian was also riding an upswing in the price curve of his cars that was mimicking the price increase of original Cobras. And then his market went soft at the same time as a fall back in the prices of the original cars.

[Woodz428]

We own 037, it is badged a Brock Coupe. That's what I refer to it as and what we purchased. We ordered it the week after the original was released from customs...when it was impounded, according to reports, by Shelby (man/company or both). That alone was enough for me to place an order. I have been informed by other persons, since, that it is now referred to as the Superformance Shelby Daytona Coupe, or some such long name. My understanding is that it was part of the deal that had Cobras made in SA and got the Shelby "endorsement" as well as the inclusion of the Coupes in the registry. I don't know, I don't have a new registry, and it won't alter my appreciation of the car one way or the other. If I sell it and that is of worth to the buyer, there you go. Mine is still the Brock Coupe and I have no intention of re-badging it... 12K and climbing. I declined, politely, a new Shelby tag, to eithere replace or supplement the existing one.
I can't vouch for any compensation that Badger may have received, but believe he was aware of negotiations, whether he was consulted or not.
In all honesty, when I got that BRE newsletter regarding the "dark side" powerplant ...it made me shudder. Seems sacreligious.

[Excaliber]

Yes I know modern is better, some engines are better than others, the LS7 is fabulous, blah blah blah. I don't care, an LS7 in a Brock Coupe IS sacreligious.

Interesting conjecture that the Coupe may have been part of the Shelby/SPF thing. I didn't need to know that, I have enough prejudice against certain parties already.

[SunDude]

I find this thread confusing. Why even ask the original question? Was Pete Brock getting a commission on each SPF unit sold with his name on it? If not then I don't see the problem. Hi-Tech Automotive continues to produce/sell the CSX9000 coupes (formerly known as the SPF Brock Coupe and the SPF Daytona Coupe), so as far as I can tell no one's getting screwed. Maybe just the customer, who now has to pay a bit extra for the Shelby name, but otherwise...

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Yes I know modern is better, some engines are better than others, the LS7 is fabulous, blah blah blah. I don't care, an LS7 in a Brock Coupe IS sacreligious.

Interesting conjecture that the Coupe may have been part of the Shelby/SPF thing. I didn't need to know that, I have enough prejudice against certain parties already.

I think it's great that Brock is running the LS motor. I don't really care what engine people run in their Cobra/Coupe/GT40. There's nothing like the styling of a Cobra, but face it, these are just modern day Hot Rods.

It doesn't really matter, as long as people enjoy their car.

[lovehamr]

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell, Every time I read someone say that these cars are just modern day Hot Rods and then use that BS to justify putting a chebbie motor in one, it just annoys the hell out of me. You don't want the car because it looks like a vette/cheetah/WTFever, you want it because it looks like Daytona Coupe and those had FORD engines. MHO is that if someone wants a chebbie, then build a freakin' chebbie, don't bastardize a cool car just because government motors never built anything you liked! You want a warmed over 350 build one of those hideous cheetahs. And just for the record, nothing makes me ignore a car faster than seeing an old Ford rod with another POS 350/350 combo. If you want to act like it has no roots to Ford's past then build something really original and don't link it to the past. As much as I respect Pete Brock, that goes for him to. I love the Brock Coupe, but if the original had never existed then this one wouldn't either and throwing that warmed over 350 in it just dumps on the very past that makes the car desirable in the first place. And that ladies and gentlmen sux.

The preceding ramble was made possible by your local GM dealer and is not endorsed in any way by the chevy-ites on this board.

Steve

[Excaliber]

I find this thread confusing. Why even ask the original question?

The original question: Whatever happened to the BROCK Coupe?

Not that history matters, apparently. Who cares what happened to the BROCK Coupe, then or now? Who cares what happened in the 60's with anything Shelby did, or even now? Who cares about ANY of the people that had anything to do with Shelby back then or now? Screw them, their history, their toast, this is now, that was then, lets move on already! Those history books about some old race car are worthless. Who gives a rip if GT-40's came in 1st, 2nd and 3rd at Le Mans whether it was 5 years ago or 50?

I'm so confused, why would people even care about some designer, from decades ago or now? OK then, I'm getting in my Volvo(worlds safest car they tell me) and motoring away smoothly to reduce my carbon footprint and save the bunny rabbits.

[Bernica]

I'm with LoveHamr on this one. Stay true to what got us all hot-n-bothered in the first place and preserve the memory for everyone else with the same memories....

[Cobra Lite]

Originally Posted by SunDude

I find this thread confusing. Why even ask the original question? Was Pete Brock getting a commission on each SPF unit sold with his name on it? If not then I don't see the problem. Hi-Tech Automotive continues to produce/sell the CSX9000 coupes (formerly known as the SPF Brock Coupe and the SPF Daytona Coupe), so as far as I can tell no one's getting screwed. Maybe just the customer, who now has to pay a bit extra for the Shelby name, but otherwise...

The reason I asked is that I remember all the articles and talk about Brock wanting no part of a another clone of the Daytona Coupe until going to SA and visiting the factory, seeing the level of quality and being persuaded to design a new car. That Brock wanted the original chassis engineer involved, and that he wanted to make, not another replica, but a better car, the one he wished he could have built back then.

Then there were the big advertisements and test drives in the magazines about the "New Brock Coupe". Soon after that, nothing. And now they are building and selling the "Shelby Coupe" with little mention of Brock.

So, is the car that is now called the Shelby/Daytona Coupe the new Brock design or is it a replica of one of the originals? From the replies so far, it sounds to me like it is the NEW car that Brock designed and that Shelby cut Brock out, and is getting the royalties. (Of course Brock would have received payment for his work, either a lump sum payment, or more likely a set fee per vehicle) I can guess that The Salesman threatened to sue like he so often has done in order to cut Brock out and get his name put in. And no doubt the royalties that he gets on everything.

Sad what he has become.
(sort of like what would have been remembered of Elvis if he had lived longer)

I just hope that Brock gets credit and reaps the rewards for his design.

As for putting AC out of business, there are always many contributing factors I agree. But Shelby certainly didn't help the company that supplied the cars that made him famous. Climbing the ladder by stepping on others is not the best way to be remembered.

Which does raise the question, what does Pete Brock have to say about his old boss and friend? Probably nothing publicly as Brock is a real nice guy.

[lovehamr]

So you're saying that CS is going to die on the crapper?

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by lovehamr

And just for the record, nothing makes me ignore a car faster than seeing an old Ford rod with another POS 350/350 combo. If you want to act like it has no roots to Ford's past then build something really original and don't link it to the past.
Steve

Woo hoo...gooooo Steve!! I almost had to pour a cold beverage before I read your rant.

I bet at least 90% of Ford Hot Rods are running a Chevy motor. There just isn't any moaning or hand wringing by the Hot Rod guys about running a Chevy.

To each his own.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programing.

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by Cobra Lite

So, is the car that is now called the Shelby/Daytona Coupe the new Brock design or is it a replica of one of the originals? From the replies so far, it sounds to me like it is the NEW car that Brock designed and that Shelby cut Brock out, and is getting the royalties. (Of course Brock would have received payment for his work, either a lump sum payment, or more likely a set fee per vehicle) I can guess that The Salesman threatened to sue like he so often has done in order to cut Brock out and get his name put in. And no doubt the royalties that he gets on everything.

Sad what he has become.
(sort of like what would have been remembered of Elvis if he had lived longer)

I just hope that Brock gets credit and reaps the rewards for his design.

As for putting AC out of business, there are always many contributing factors I agree. But Shelby certainly didn't help the company that supplied the cars that made him famous. Climbing the ladder by stepping on others is not the best way to be remembered.

Which does raise the question, what does Pete Brock have to say about his old boss and friend? Probably nothing publicly as Brock is a real nice guy.

Is the new Shelby Coupe going to be significantly different than the SPF Coupe? I thought they were basically just re-badging it...but I have no idea.

Also, does anyone really know if there was any financial/royalty arrangement with Brock? He could have just been a hired gun to design it and was paid a fee.