Toploader Locked up

RedEsprit · #1 (**permalink**) 11-30-2007, 06:25 PM

Toploaders locked up tighter than a tick. Everything was fine. Went to back out of the shop and it felt like the rear brakes were locked. Backed up six feet wouldn't move any further. Thought it was the diff. but jacked the rear up and disconnected the drive shaft and the rear wheels turn fine. With transmission in neutral, the drive shaft wont turn. Lube is fine. Was just putting the finishing touches on the ERA and took it out for the first dirves. Left the tranny tunnel off just to make sure the linkage was adjusted right. Now this Arghhhhh. Any suggestions other than dynamite?

SSSammy · #2 (**permalink**) 11-30-2007, 07:13 PM

Red, I'm gonna guess you're dealing with a loose or out of adjustment shift rod. See what the rods are doing. If I remember right, the rearmost positon of each of the three shafts represents neutral. See if that is where they are. Hold the clutch in and run through the gears and see if the shafts are moving or not. I think there is a condition you can get into with the rods out of sync which will lock it up. Particularly the reverse rod. If you can't turn the output shaft with the clutch in, then the tranny may be locked up ..

Sam

1985 CCX · #3 (**permalink**) 11-30-2007, 07:19 PM

Been there done that and Sam is right, shift rod is most likely the issue. Most likely since it can move fairly easily if not fully secured. Hope it is that; then it is only a hassle versus time and $.

RedEsprit · #4 (**permalink**) 11-30-2007, 07:33 PM

Got me slightly baffled. What's really throwing me off is that it allowed me to back up fine for six feet and then just locked up. Major pain. Was just doing the final polish on the paint to put the car in a show Sunday. Took it on its first runs Thursday. I'll see if I can find the culprit tomorrow. Thanks for the help.

1985 CCX · #5 (**permalink**) 11-30-2007, 08:01 PM

I experienced this with a friend, backed the car out of the garage drove around side of house then stopped. Car would not come out of first regardless how much we tried. Ended up driving the car around the yard then on the lift. Was a simple adjustment, whew....

Excaliber · #6 (**permalink**) 11-30-2007, 09:26 PM

Backed out, thats the KEY phrase here. 1st and reverse share some internal components. Possible that it's in BOTH gears. Could be linkage, could be the reverse lockout pin inside the trans has broken or come loose in some manner, allowing the linkage to select both gears!

Hopefully David or Jimmi G will weigh in for us on this interesting issue.

RedEsprit · #7 (**permalink**) 12-01-2007, 05:50 AM

Ex, I think that may be the issue. When I first tried the box out, after selecting reverse, the tranny wouldn't shift into the forward gears. If I pulled back on the reverse cam just a hair, the four forward speeds were fine. I adjusted the linkage just a thread or two and the problem went away...until now.

On my second cup of coffee, and will be in the shop in an little while. Going to disconnect the rods and see if I can find a neutral that will free up the driveshaft. The thought of yanking the engine after I just got every leak stopped and the car ready for the road is not reeeeaaaalllly to appealling. Besides, I'm out of beer at the shop.

Excaliber · #8 (**permalink**) 12-01-2007, 07:46 AM

It's possible the reverse pin fell out of place during assembly, it can happen pretty easily if your not specifically looking for that pin to STAY in place. If every shift is always made real clean and the linkage is adjusted perfectly the problem may not show up for months afterward.

When I bought the ERA the fellow mentioned that occasionally the linkage would lock up. Didn't happen to me for several months, then one day, backing out... I later found the pin in the bottom of the trans, no doubt it had been that way for years. Whew, I hope it's something else, the trans has to come apart to fix the pin.

RedEsprit · #9 (**permalink**) 12-01-2007, 10:17 AM

Ex,

Now a little more confused. Pulled the top off the box and drained the gear lube. Thought I would at least see the culprit... but no luck. Everything looks fine...synchros centered and detents working. I gathering that by the reverse pin you mean the interlock pin that goes into the shift rail for 3rd and 4th. Can't really tell if that is in but the tranny doesn't seem to be selecting multiple gears. Reverse idler and slider seem to pull back fine but...I did find somethin' unusual. With the tranny in neutral, I can easily move the reverse cam with your hand and move the reverse gear. It would seem that the detent is not in or no spring in:confused confusedthe reverse shift rail. Everything seems centered and adjusted perfectley. No metal or telltale came out when I drained the gear lube. I did find my speedo problem which quit working after a few minutes of driving.. speedo gear flattened out. Obviouisly need the oddball reverse cut nylon speedo cable gear. Still stumped. Its like the main shaft is bound up in the tail section but reallly don't understand what could cuase that other than a massive rear bearing failure.

Jac Mac · #10 (**permalink**) 12-01-2007, 01:13 PM

If your trans has the large magnet glued in the bottom of the case its unlikely any parts will come out the drain bung. The fact you can move it in /out of reverse NOW suggests that bottom detent and/or spring are not fitted. I suggest that you select reverse gear manually now then also try to select one of the forward gears at the same time to check that the interlock detent is in place.
Also can you now turn the output shaft when you manualy select neutral?
There was someone with a lock-up problem a while back - that turned out to be the wrong blockers[1-2] fitted to the 3-4 synchro hub. An error like that could cause the trans to bind up while in reverse as the top gear synchro ring would be preloaded.
To be certain the trans needs to come down- a good mech can strip/fit brgs,synchros,etc/reassemble one in about three hours, do you have any like that in your area

.

Jac Mac

Excaliber · #11 (**permalink**) 12-01-2007, 01:36 PM

I believe you can in fact select reverse gear by hand when the trans is in neutral. The detent (pin) comes out of it's bore and locks out reverse when the first/second shift rail are moved even slightly forward or backward.

Of course bear in mind this may not be the problem at all, just an item to pay careful attention to when the trans gets reassembled and the problem fixed. It would be hell to miss that little detent while distracted over some other problem.

It's fairly common for it to 'fall out' during assembly.

PatBuckley · #12 (**permalink**) 12-01-2007, 04:47 PM

I have had this happen a couple of times - in my case, one of the selector rods was interfering with another resulting in two gears being selected at the same time.

Try moving the selectors on each shaft into neutral position and then select a gear and see if it works. There does need to be some clearance there.

Puzzling that it happened after you were moving - that is a new one on me.

RedEsprit · #13 (**permalink**) 12-01-2007, 04:54 PM

All forward gears, cluster gear and the reverse idler turn when I start the car in neutral with the clutch engaged. Fine. The slider gear for reverse is flush against the reverse idler. Fine. Select any gear and the main shaft will not turn...just kills the engine. Its like the main shaft is absolutely locked in place.

RedEsprit · #14 (**permalink**) 12-01-2007, 05:02 PM

Yes it must be a first. Pulled the car into the shop after driving around the block. Went to tern the car around so I could back in to do a little paint touch up on the deck lid where the lighting is better Backed up 6 feet and it felt like I was applying the brakes. Didn't just lock up and stop. Took about 3more feet. That's why I thought it was the brakes or diff. Disconnected the drive shaft from the diff and jacked up the rear...back end spins fine. Put it in neutral and tried to spin the drive shaft....locked up. It would seem to me that if two gears were selected..it would not run in neutral with the clutch out. You would have to have the clutch in. The synchros are all dead center between the gears. No gear is locked to the shaft. They all spin freely.

Excaliber · #15 (**permalink**) 12-01-2007, 08:53 PM

Well darn! There it is, that bad boy is 'broke'. I'd pull the trans and leave the engine in the car, works pretty well that way on an ERA.