DV, by DV

[Wade Chamberlain]

Ed, buddy, I'll be at DVSF "V" regardless of date, location, or price of admission. Personally, I don't care how much money goes to charity and I don't care about "accountability". The amount of fun I've had and the friendships that I've formed at each and every one of the Flings (I've been to them all) is easily worth WAY more than the price of admission. With the amount of time you, your family, and your business have given up for the Fling....hell, you could pocket the money for all I care...it'd probably be deserved.

I hope a vocal few don't skew your perception of what folks think about the way Flings 1 through 4 were run. I'm pretty sure the majority don't feel like they need to ask the serious questions that have been asked here.

[Mike Holt]

Hear Hear Wade!

[Double Venom]

I did just talk to Jack and now I have a little better understanding of what is taking place. First and foremost, I take total responsibility for the lack of information that has not been released. I honestly had no idea, especially about the raffle car. This needs clarifying right now, especially after hearing some of the rumors that have been going around. I want to once again reiterate--if you want to know anything, and I mean anything about past or possible future Flings, all you have to do is ask! Ask a "Direct" question and you will get a direct answer.

That is what I am doing right now, answering all the questions and comments. I really do not have a lot of time for this, but it will be done. I'm sorry if it's not as fast as you want it to be.

Another thing I want to interject here, Is that I MADE IT PERFECTLY CLEAR AT OUR PICNIC ON SUNDAY AT THE PARK THAT I WOULD BE 'OFF-LINE' FOR UP TO 5 MONTHS OR SO! We didn't even get a phone line in until about 6 weeks ago! Then I was further delayed trying to get a DSL line in, when that failed I went with this 'Dial-up'. I hope that at least answers the, "I disappeared" comments. My abscense and the reason for it were well known, and thinking back on it, I think I even posted this information at the end of Fling IV.


DVSF IV RAFFLE CAR:
The reason we went with my car for the event was; it was the ONLY "turnkey" car that we could come up with in time to actually get out and sell raffle tickets to. It simply was not fair to any of our Cobra manufacturers to ask them to donate at least a 'roller' in that amount of time. We did have an FFR Cobra that was almost complete offered to us, which supposedly had a good start to it, but still had to be finished. My memory is a little vague at this point but the Colorado Club (?) offered to get the guys car finished for us, we even had shipping arrangements made. Had we gone this route we would have helped the owner out tremendously, (I'm not going to go into that right now, it's irrelevant for this thread.) After that Cobra had been actually inspected I was advised by more than one person to let it go. At least two weeks had been used wasted in preparation for this car.

Time was of the essence, so that is how we came up with raffling of the original "DV Cobra". This was NOT an easy thing to do, nor was it a spur of the moment decision! Numerous people on this and other forums were asked their opinions, albeit behind the scenes, until we actually released the information to the public. Not one negative comment other than quite a few people thought we were either nuts, or that we really were'nt going to raffle off the original DV Cobra.

I personally thought we were doing a great thing. Alyce, at CF was asked, which of course went all the way to the top of the CF chain obtaining their blessing. "FinishLine" was advised of whatd what I wanted to do and got their input. Dean Rosen was asked about it, Dave Smith-Jenny's father for those that might not know, was asked his thoughts. (More on that conversation in a minute.) "We" discussed the cost with everyone and yes, at least one thing on this thread was right, an agreed upon a price of $50,000.00 for the car. NOW please, please understand this: Any money's above the $50,000.00 was to go to CF, all of it. IF THE RAFFLE DID NOT BRING IN AT LEAST $50,000.00 THEN THE LOSS WAS MINE! NOT CF'S. If that wasn't clear enough then let it suffice that not one Dime was or did go toward the purchase of the DV Cobra OTHER than from the raffle ticket sales! Not relevant, but I think he deserves some credit here, Randy, DV Jr. as most of you know him closed down his business, AT NO COST TO US, for over five or six weeks to transport the car from one show to another, to prep the car, making minor repairs and doing what ever he could to get the car ready. He alone stood out in fields, and parking lots for entire weekends selling tickets. YES, help was asked for and a few good souls did respond to help out.

Continueing on, Dave Smith made an offer that I thought was a totally above and beyond. He knew I was nervous about raffling of my car, the potential loss could have devastated us, and so he simply did what Dave is so good at, he offered to "personally-NOT FFR Racing" make up any deficit that we would suffer if the car did not bring in the $50,000.00 plus we were hoping for.

The Tally:
Total sales in the few short weeks we had were right at $41,500.00 (may be of on this a small amount). The "actual" costs to do the raffle, i.e., raffle tickets, transportation, hotel rooms, fuel, etc. were subtracted from the total intake. Had we had the full year to raffle off the car I'm sure we could have doubled ticket sales. I'm almost sure this is right, but I'm going by memory here. Let me do the math for you, we ended up being roughly $10,000.00 short of our minimum goal. Dave Smith did NOT make up the difference ONLY because we never asked him to! It was my decision to take this gamble for our event, not David's. We then donated another $2,000.00 out of the proceeds to Cystic Fibrosis.

*A note here to answer the naysayers, all in all $37,000 +/- IS a lot of money! How ever, it is a far cry from the $69,900.00 that this car sells for!

That is the complete story on the "DV" Cobra. I have no regrets it was my decision.

The rest will be forth coming.
Ed "DV" Combs

[rdorman]

Well done Ed.

I will echo the sentiments of some in here and repeat my own. My thoughts, my feelings.

First off, you can't please all the people all the time. No matter how hard you try, some one won't like it. And before someone accuses me of taking sides or something, I have been one of these people, on a number of occasions. But, once the decision is made, I get on board and play with the team. He would tell you that I have given him plenty of grief in private. But that is where it stays and then I join the team.

Secrets. I beleive that the 'secrets' surrounding the event planning are simply to avoid disappointment and the wasting of time and energy answering questions about what may never be. The plans change so often because of outside influences. Plus, there is always keeping the options open to bigger and better things. Many a event has been replaced by one that has more to offer. Ed tries very hard to please. Frankly, a lot harder than I would! Sure, the anticipation drives me up a wall. It does because I am so damned excited for this thing every year.

Finances. I know some grumble about it, but personally, I don't care. I don't care if the money goes to charity. While nice, I have said it before, it is not why I go to the Fling. To me it is nothing more than a topic for passing conversation. For all I care it can be used to compensate Ed and his family for all their hard work. Imagine what it would cost to run this professionally. I have asked professionals that do these sort of events for a living. Trust me, it is a lot of money. More than the Fling could or has ever made, unless of course you want to pay a registration fee five times greater than you are now. I don't beleive releasing 'the books' is 'owed' to anyone, although I do beleive that the gesture would go a long way to fostering the feeling that the Fling is a Cobra family event and less an 'Ed's event'. Of course it would probably open up the flood gates of amateur accounts and planners with all their ideas/suggestions...... some may be good.

Side events. If people want to organize side events to raise money for CF, there is nothing stopping you. It has been going on for years. It is a good thing that those of you do. I am sure CF appreciates it. The Great Lakes guys, JP dinner, etc. all events that have raised money for CF. Al money that CF has raised because of the Fling. Don't just look at the money that comes directly from the Fling. There is more because of it.

K.I.S.S. Please do. Ed, his family and group of supporters bend over backwards and practically kill them selves putting this together. Do an poker run Friday, Autocross, Saturday, London Sunday. No other organized events. Take the evening and hang out with the rest of us. Bigger is not always better and as many have said, it is not why many of us are there anyways.

Vendors. If they want to come, let them. But as participants. They can pay a entry fee just like the rest of us and come and have a good time with the community they support.

Raffle. Raffle off the best car donated and advertise it nationally.

Charity. Tons of good ones. CF is nice because of the history. But again, charity is only the icing. If we don't have a charity, then perhaps we don't even need a raffle car.

Accountability. I got my $100 worth out of it and then some. Need I know more?

Purpose: Us. The Cobra family.

Help. Spread the joy as much as you can. Delegate and forget it. Lots of good hard working people. If they need help, they will ask. When the Fling was cancelled last year. I spent a few days thinking about doing one. After talking to a number of people I decided even delegating out, it was more than I could handle.

Ed. Ed reminds me of a proud father when watching him at the Fling. While it may not be 'Ed's event', it comes pretty close with all the effort he puts into it. Perhaps that is a big part of all the grumbling. People want to help and feel left out. I learned a long time ago not to 'look a gift horse in the mouth'. That is the way I see Ed's involvement.

All I need to know is where and on what date so I can make reservations. In fact, we already have booked 20 rooms at the Cross Country taking a best guess as to when the Fling will be. Better make your reservations soon before we snatch them all up!

Rick

Long live the Fling!

[relaxinrob]

Ed, just tell me where and when and I'll be there......don't care about anything else.

[OhBuoy]

I want to chime in with one thought based upon Ed's response. I bought several tickets for II, 1 or 2 for III and none for IV. I do not know that the prize necessarily needs to be a roller. It might be easier to get someone to donate a kit and some quality parts or a credit for some of the parts as opposed to a complete car. And there just may be more people interested in the kit, with an option to have someone complete it for them. To win the Kirkham would have been nice, but is it really the car that I would build myself? No. No offense, but after completing my car this year, I had no interest in winning the DV. Cool car, but not the car I would build. Now, if there was an auction for an FFR Spec Racer or a Midstates or a B&B or a Classic Roadsters kit (maybe the let me trade it for a Badlands to tow with!), I would be all over it. I think a lot of people would agree that most of these cars are custom built to the owners wants.

Tom

[Todd Baumann]

DV,
One thing that I want to say first and foremost is THANKS, for DVSF I-IV.
I have to second Wade's thoughts. Why everyone is so hung up on the charity thing is beyond me. If you want to raise money for one than fine. But this was, and still should be, an event for the Cobra guys that want to get together and have a good time. As DV and the others stated that the original reason we gave money to CF was because so many companies and people had donated it to put on the event and they wanted to something with the extra.

I agree about the cars for the raffle also, although it's nice to drive away in the car it is no way a must. Just being able to win anything is great to who ever is the lucky person, and it keeps the taxman out of the equation as much as possible.

If you think that Ed is not doing a good enough job tell him that you can do better. Then as my father says "You can put up or shut up." I am sure that you will get some one to show up and eventually your event may have the same popularity and family autmosphere as the Fling. At the least maybe Ed will be able to totally enjoy the Fling.

Bring on the friends, autocrossing, drag racing, and the poker run, over and above that who friken cares.

[Cobra20646]

I made the decision early on in this thread that I would not respond to it because I didn’t want to be caught up in all the “action” that was going to develop. But that was then, and this is now………..

To Ed Combs….. As you know, I’ve been to all the flings and have never been anywhere else that was as much fun. I know you and all your helpers have worked your butts off to pull off these events, and you have my sincere gratitude. I’m not in the least way concerned as to how much money was sent in, raffle tickets sold, or what the bottom line was. To me, the price of admission was cheap compared to the enjoyment that I received by simply being with the Cobra family for a weekend of fun, and the nightly social life. I’ll be at the next fling too, regardless of what the scheduled events are. I don’t give a hoot, just as long as the weather cooperates so we can enjoy driving the cars around the area. The one thing that I think shouldn’t be changed is the Saturday “show” in downtown London. This past year, I heard from many local people that the Strawberry festival has been revived by our participation in their event. This no doubt has a direct bearing on how the town accepts us and allows us to do what we do! In some respects, we are in their debt for their generosity. I don’t think there is another town in Ohio, or in the world, that would treat us any better. Don’t care if there is a car being raffled off either. I know the reason why we started the CF donations, and I support your unselfish efforts to continue to send them whatever money is left over from your expenses.

So just set the dates and I’ll mark off that weekend for DVSF #5.

To everyone else who has been beating on Ed to fess up about ….. whatever….. get a life!

[rdorman]

You get a second from me Jim!
Rick

[MidOHasp]

Todd, et al . . .

Nobody is saying they can do it better. Jesus...

Nobody is in the "put up or shut up" mode. Ed says he is open to thoughts; he is getting plenty of those! Some constructive, some not!

I'll admit, I don't think twice about the charity during the hours I'm socializing with friends at the flings. I don't think that's the point. We're not trying to maximize the dollars raised for charity. The questions that several raised were related to accountability - not maximizing our charitable contribution. I think if adults want to know where the money is going, they are entitled to know that. I really really do believe that. If I raise $500 for CF, I want to know about what % of that is making it into CF's hands. I can't donate to every charity I find worthy. I'd like to pick, then, the ones that have less overhead. If most of it is making it to CF, then I'm ecstatic to work hard pre-fling to be able to write a big check. Otherwise, I'm just going to come have a great time with friends.

So, I think the questions about the charity came down to accountability. If Ed has answered that question of those who have asked, then I think that question can be put behind them/us/whomever.

The rest of the argument seems to be "KISS". Why do some people feel the need to take offense to this thought process . . . to view those thoughts as attacks on Ed Combs? Why is someone who wants to help make the Fling better than ever via some constructive criticism (at worst) and thoughtful suggestions all of the sudden a "bad guy" ?

Hey, I'm in the "tell me when and where" crowd. Barring catastrophe or unexpected turn of events, I will be there, drinking beers in the parking lot, giving rides until my clutch gives out on Saturday, just like last year.

I feel like some people are really missing the point of those who have asked any questions on this thread. We have the right to do this without being jumped on as "Ed attackers" and being told to "put up or shut up".

[Hotfingrs]

JP,

Why are all your posts either apologizing or defending something. Why do you feel that every post asking a question is a direct attack on you. The one that protests the loudest, is usually the guilty one, and in this case, I gotta believe it.

The rest of the argument seems to be "KISS". Why do some people feel the need to take offense to this thought process . . . to view those thoughts as attacks on Ed Combs? Why is someone who wants to help make the Fling better than ever via some constructive criticism (at worst) and thoughtful suggestions all of the sudden a "bad guy" ?

You say you're in the tell me when and where crowd, and the kiss crowd, but then you say..."Why is someone who wants to help make the Fling better than ever"....tell me how better than ever equates to kiss....cooking a hot dog in the parking lot over a can of sterno while drinking a beer, and chatting with others ...is the kiss mode, not better than ever.

If everyone hasn't figured out from your posts that you have an agenda, then they haven't been reading your posts. You want to take over the Fling....period, or at least be elevated up to the DV level. All your protesting will never get you there, no matter how hard you try. A hundred atta-boys wiped out by one good protest, and right now your atta-boys are way used up.

The time is now, to quit being so cryptic in your posts, tell the people what you want, and let the Cobra community decide your fate. Just stop all the defensive posts.

[MidOHasp]

Jack,

I want nothing of the like. Don't put words in my mouth.

I didn't say "bigger" - I said "better" Yes, sitting around with a hot-dog over a sterno can to me is better than the hoopla of the party tent, catering, controlled access to the tent, wrist-bands, etc... Not bigger, better.

I'm not protesting anything, by the way. Guilty of what, I have to ask? All I'm asking is for people to stop attacking me and others who have raised questions. It's ridiculous. I haven't told anyone to shut up yet. I speak my opinions without trying to silence others. That's all I'm asking, is for that to stop.

My posts aren't intended to be cryptic. Maybe they are because you are not seeing my point. I admit that could be MY fault. But I'm not hiding anything in my posts, certainly not an agenda to take over the fling. Are you crazy? Seriously. Get a clue and don't tell everyone what I'm thinking or attempting or what my agenda is.

I'm not defending myself, I'm asking nicely for people to understand what my point is. So I'm not one with words. Is that a sin? I'm sorry that you find my posts cryptic. Nobody else seems to find them cryptic. If someone wants to think I have an agenda, I know better. That's all I need to know. My friends who have known me longer than you also know better. I enjoyed meeting you at the leaf cruise, you seem like a great guy. Don't come off as an asshole now by telling me to "let the Cobra community decide my fate"... That's a really ridiculous thing to say. Am I on trial, here?

To say that I have an agenda, you are just wrong. Period. Nothing cryptic about that. You are wrong. I'll say it here, first. You will never see a JPSF or an attempt at a JPSF. You'll never see me asking for Ed or anyone to hand over any reigns. You'll never see my name at the top of anything bigger than a leaf cruise or a dinner meeting. Period.

I tried to take an active role in last year's fling (to the extent that I could, not being located any closer to the real action in the planning phases) and I enjoyed it. I'd like to help behind-the-scenes again. Swear to God and all of you, my friends. That is the extent to which I'd like to be more than a participant in this fling or any fling.

I also haven't apologized for anything, Jack. I'm not sure where you are seeing my apologies. I just haven't apologized once, here, haven't felt the need. Again, people follow the flow of posts. They're going to read yours and forget what I said . . . assuming that what you said I said is reality. That's just not fair.

I'm neutral, man. You are obviously taking personal offense to stuff that isn't even being said. I'm sorry you feel that is necessary. You are on Ed's side. I'm not on anyone's side. I just want to have fun.

I think KISS is better. Smaller, less "bling", and BETTER. Smaller doesn't have to mean less cars. Just less flash.

Jack, I had my hands full with the leaf cruise. That is the extent to which I can plan, organize, and run an event all by myself. I recognize that limitation and hope I can do that again next year, 2 weeks later, hitting peak foliage. In the mean-time, my very literal words are all the agenda I have. Beyond that, you're making stuff up.

Those who haven't seen "my agenda" in my posts aren't READING TOO FAR INTO THEM like you are. That's a more accurate statement.

Jack, you're a good guy. I am, too. I'd like to see you at the fling or at our OCC winter get-together, shake your hand, smile, and know this is all behind all of us. But if you want to try to defame me here by speaking for me, telling everyone out there that I have an agenda, then phuck off.

I mean both parts of that serious as a heart attack. I'm a forgiver and forgetter, so long as someone isn't telling me what I'm thinking or saying or making me look like an asshole more than I do on my own. But, if you can't take this at face value, then you are being a jerk.

I want this discussion, at least my active role in it, to be over. But on my terms. Not on the terms of someone policing what I have to say. I was ready to concede that point yesterday, and even more so after Ed's post today. But I'll be damned if I don't do it on my terms. I'm not backing out of this discussion because someone told me to. I'm doing it because I'm satisfied with what has been discussed. If others want to keep it going, fine. I'm out.

Please, people, save the policing to the moderators. If you have an opinion on the Fling or on Ed Combs, this is the place for it. Those of you that are bringing up your great past fling experiences, I love seeing that. Those of you that are just badmouthing me or telling Turk, Braatz, myself, et al to "shut up", I just don't think that's the same thing at all.

PS - Jack, if you have a personal problem with me, PM me. I have no public records to share, and you and I can talk offline. Tell me personally what you think I'm saying, and if you make a good point, explaining to me how my posts look like I have an agenda, then maybe you have a good point. I will re-read what I've said and I will post something short (I am capable of that, actually) to rectify that. In the meantime, leave the personal slams out of the public arena.

[Hotfingrs]

JP

I think your last post pretty much proves my point.

If you have an opinion on the Fling or on Ed Combs, this is the place for it.

I think anyone that posts on this thread is open to comment, not just DV, as you would have it.

[rdorman]

I do believe it is Miller time! Emotions are running a bit high!

As Jamo once said, 'the Fling heals all'. Darn good thing, since all we seem to go through before we get there!

Rick

[MidOHasp]

Jack, you are obviously the one with an agenda, here.

Just trust me as being truthful, here. All I ask. Don't look into what I'm saying more than necessary. I'm not even asking you to like me. I guess you can't have everyone like you.

Nobody's told Ed to shut up. That's the difference. I also don't think anyone's jumped on Ed's character or agenda. That's also a difference.

Jack, I'm asking nicely - - - Just believe me at face value here. I'm telling the truth. I have no agenda.

You've all heard it here first. I don't want any credit for anything, don't want to be in charge of anything, don't want to organize, plan, run, host the Fling.

Please stop taking little tiny bits out of my posts and reading them back to everyone else out of context like Michael Moore in F-911.

I'm not going to defend it any more, if anyone's really reading what I have to say, you're going to be the one coming across as unreasonable.

I am not planning to hold that against you, like I said - forgive and forget (like you care). All I'm saying is plain and simple - no agenda here but to clear the air, now. If you can't just trust me as being honest with that, then I don't really care anymore.

I mean no harm to anyone, here. I'm not sure why one person has decided to latch on and make this about me.

[rdorman]

Are you saying Micheal Moore did not accurately represent the facts in F-911???

Rick

[PatBuckley]

Kool Aid, Kool Aid, tastes great!!!!

LMAO

[Jamo]

Rick...did I say that? What a smart sumb!tch I is.

[rdorman]

Originally posted by Jamo


Rick...did I say that? What a smart sumb!tch I is.

Yep, don't recall the cercumstance. It is a good one.

Kool aid cubes any one?

Rick

[Chaplin]

J.P.
You are either the world's fastest typist or are seriously under-employed (But I don't disagree with what you've said by the way ).

I think this can be settled once and for all by banning Rdorman! All in favor?