Progress on #782

[cscobra]

The rocker cover does NOT need to be removed to remove the battery--the battery slides off its mounting shelf toward the front of the car quite easily after removing the vertical rear aluminum panel of the right front wheelwell (10 screws for the panel and, for many of us, one knock-off hub). All ERA 427s from 768 on have this feature.

And why generate even more heat and potentially lose electrical efficiency with the longer cables required for trunk mounting?

As far as weight distribution gains, the ERA 427 already has 52% of its weight on the rear wheels thanks to the car being essentially a front mid-engine design. How much more do you need?

My top, side curtains, and tonneau cover (all in their own leather pouches) store very compactly on the forward trunk shelf, leaving the trunk floor empty and relatively spacious for a sports car. If I had the battery on that shelf, then I would have to store these items on the trunk floor and have a lot less space than I do now.

Finally, if I'd done as great a job with my top as Dan did, I'd leave it up a lot!

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by cscobra

As far as weight distribution gains, the ERA 427 already has 52% of its weight on the rear wheels thanks to the car being essentially a front mid-engine design. How much more do you need?

Listen to CSCobra and run a test before you try and fix something that might not be wrong to begin with. Here are my corner weights, with me in the driver's seat and a half tank of gas. Why would I want to move my battery away from the right front? The all-important cross-weight percentages are 49.9/50.1 -- moving the battery, for me, would not be productive.

Left Front (703) Right Front (667)
Left Rear (756) Right Rear (725)

Front Percentage: 48.1%
Rear Percentage: 51.9%

Left Percentage: 51.2%
Right Percentage: 48.8%

[DanEC]

Man - who would have thought this was such a controversial subject. Sorry about the comment on the crowded trunk. Apparently many of you are better packers than I am.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by DanEC

Man - who would have thought this was such a controversial subject. Sorry about the comment on the crowded trunk. Apparently many of you are better packers than I am.

Beg, borrow, or steal a set of corner weight scales and then set your corner weights -- it'll make a big difference, both on the street and elsewhere, plus it'll answer the "should I move my battery" question.

[ERA Chas]

Dan doesn't care about the weight, long cables do not make more heat (), #0 or #1 cable looses zero 'efficiency' () and yes; late cars need not remove a v cover-only have to jack and pull r/f wheel to get batt out,
I gave you guys answer to the test---27 years and NO such horrors from a trunk battery.
I'm off your case Dan-I'll leave you to the scientists in the community...

[cscobra]

Sorry, ERA Chas, but the laws of physics say otherwise. The longer the cable, the greater the electrical resistance--which produces heat and reduces efficiency (e.g., a decrease in current). You can compensate a bit by using a bigger, thicker cable, but that results in increased weight and higher cost for the cable.

Everything's a trade-off. What may be an advantage for one person may prove to be a disadvantage for another.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by cscobra

Sorry, ERA Chas, but the laws of physics say otherwise. The longer the cable, the greater the electrical resistance--which produces heat and reduces efficiency (e.g., a decrease in current). You can compensate a bit by using a bigger, thicker cable, but that results in increased weight and higher cost for the cable.

Everything's a trade-off. What may be an advantage for one person may prove to be a disadvantage for another.

Thank you for your physic (pun intended) lesson.
Weight of cable and cost?? Reduced efficiency-you mean like running a full-time electric fuel pump, three fans and an MSD?
Electrical resistance and heat produced have zero effect on ET's or lap times. Or street driving in ambient heat. Ask how I know professor.
Dan spent more on dash knobs and wiper bottles and added hundreds of pounds of weight to this car. He does not care about any of that-only the evidence that a same-make car, built with trunk mount 27 years ago, continues to operate flawlessly today. He would like all his hard build work pay-off like that too.
Patrick will now be highly upset that there is a Greater Authority on all things pertaining to physics and ERAs than he....

[cscobra]

Sorry to have so obviously upset you, but facts are facts, and no one is entitled to make up their own facts. I wouldn't want to have reduced current to my starter in cold weather from an unexpectedly weak battery just because I had to have my battery in the trunk.

Instead of being so critical of those who disagree with you, why not learn to be more tolerant of others' choices? Dan has built a fine car, and he did it the way he wanted--why not be happy for him?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Patrick will now be highly upset that there is a Greater Authority on all things pertaining to physics and ERAs than he....

Not so! I have the greatest respect for cscobra. He is not only educated, but communicates well to boot. He seems affable and clearly has hands-on experience, not only with his ERA, but with Ohm's Law as well. You seem just a little over-sensitive on this. Maybe it stems from your mama locking you in the basement, in the pitch dark, for long periods of time as a child for punishment? Surely that left a scar. Maybe you'd feel better if you just talked it all out on this forum instead of lashing out at poor cscobra....

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by cscobra

Sorry to have so obviously upset you, but facts are facts, and no one is entitled to make up their own facts. I wouldn't want to have reduced current to my starter in cold weather from an unexpectedly weak battery just because I had to have my battery in the trunk.

Instead of being so critical of those who disagree with you, why not learn to be more tolerant of others' choices? Dan has built a fine car, and he did it the way he wanted--why not be happy for him?

You have several more things wrong.
I'm not making up facts or disagreeing with the laboratory 'evidence' you present. I am saying 'that doesn't apply here' - my way works fine in the real world. You have a late ERA for maybe 2 or 3 years and I'd venture you didn't build it. Correct me if wrong. That doesn't qualify you to preach junk science with virtually no sweat equity.
If you fret about 'reduced current in cold weather' (a terrible time to run an expensive engine), a high-torque mini starter (like mine) draws less current. But I suspect that's beyond your budgetary limits. And a 'Battery Tender' will make sure you never have reduced current, with the pigtails conveniently located at the trunk latch...
If you haven't tried what I've described, doesn't that make you rethink your internet-learned prattle? is near 3 decades of fact not enough to have you open your mind to another perspective?? 'Be more tolerant of others'-ideas, as you put it?
I have done nothing but strive to make Dan's build a rewarding experience-as many other experienced ERA guys have. If you posted here more than 246 times (lurking since 1999 is not helping anyone) and read all 36 pages of this thread, you would see a liberal sprinkling of help and encouragement I posted for Dan. Including a very long, detailed tutorial on attaching the vinyl to the rear bulkhead. I see no such help from you. Much of the 528 posts are Dan asking questions, posting progress and many others of us helping.
I am not critical of Dan or his work-merely trying to make his journey with this car easier and fun, and have proven that. Anytime you make maintenance easier, you have a better project and rewarding experience.
Dan knows when I brow-beat, I'm trying to show a better way. Sure he can ignore me or fight with me-he's a big boy with a ton of car experience across several makes. And I absolutely respect that.
I doubt the same is true of you.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Not so! I have the greatest respect for cscobra. He is not only educated, but communicates well to boot. He seems affable and clearly has hands-on experience, not only with his ERA, but with Ohm's Law as well. You seem just a little over-sensitive on this. Maybe it stems from your mama locking you in the basement, in the pitch dark, for long periods of time as a child for punishment? Surely that left a scar. Maybe you'd feel better if you just talked it all out on this forum instead of lashing out at poor cscobra....

Superb inciting in your usual style, Village Idiot. Do you and he have the same manicurist?
And Ma only locked me in the basement when I got home from Reform School...

[RodKnock]

I have a trunk-mounted battery. That's how most of the later Kirkham's are delivered. Mine came with a battery cut-off too. All works great. And I recently bought a Battery Tender too. Those work great as well.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I have a trunk-mounted battery. That's how most of the later Kirkham's are delivered. Mine came with a battery cut-off too. All works great. And I recently bought a Battery Tender too. Those work great as well.

Yeah, but you weren't locked in the basement as a kid.

[DanEC]

Has anyone else before had their build thread locked by Jamo? It could be a first.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by DanEC

Has anyone else before had their build thread locked by Jamo? It could be a first.

Sooooooooo... are you gonna check your corner weights?

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Sooooooooo... are you gonna check your corner weights?

I would just for the heck of it but I have no idea where I would find a set of scales locally. Central Arkansas is not exactly Mecca for the roundy-round sports car crowd. If an opportunity arises I will do it. I suspect mine would come out reasonably close to your car.

My additional 15 lbs or so of sound dampening is probably slightly more situated towards the rear - say 5/10. I have steel heads and water pump - I would guess 40 - 45 lbs that would fall more on the front. No roll bar takes about 20 lbs off the rear axle. My tail pipes probably add about 20 lbs to the rear. The jag suspension adds about 45 lbs to the rear. My full street bumpers add about 10 lbs front and rear each (not much to them). That works out about +50 lbs on front and +55 lbs on the rear.

[DanEC]

A couple tweaks:

Replaced the S&H filters with K&N filters. I doubt they will make much difference but they are about 1/4 inch taller so that works out about 6.4 square inches more filter surface area each. Woo woo! My rear acorn nut was clearing by about 3/8 inch initially but I realized today that the nut was bottoming out on the stud. I picked up another 1/8 inch of so by readjusting so clearances are good.

Also ordered a pair of vacuum secondary covers set up for linked vacuum.



The next item ERA Chas will approve of. Fabricated an accelerator return spring bracket out of aluminum channel and got a couple new springs from Summit. Looks much better now.

[ERA Chas]

Yes-he does approve! Almost a clone of mine. Except I made mine skinnier to save all that weight and improve my ET's...

Now Daniel, look me up when you're ready for one of these beauties-a Moroso throttle stop, so you don't over-center the linkage and you can hold your foot flat on the floor for hours...

BTW-Ixcsnay on the ochechay...(lose the choke).

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

BTW-Ixcsnay on the ochechay...(lose the choke).

Re: Choke. Do you mean on the rear carb (?) - that is on my list of projects. And that is a nifty throttle stop - I may have to do one of those also. Still debating whether to have a pair of original configuration carbs built up or just mod the ones I have - buy new fuel bowls, remove rear choke plate, maybe even install the Ford style throttle shaft brackets.

Thanks

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by DanEC

Re: Choke. Do you mean on the rear carb (?) - that is on my list of projects. And that is a nifty throttle stop - I may have to do one of those also. Still debating whether to have a pair of original configuration carbs built up or just mod the ones I have - buy new fuel bowls, remove rear choke plate, maybe even install the Ford style throttle shaft brackets.

Thanks

Original config carbs will not get you better time slips.
And the dufuses that look at your car on the street won't know squat about which carbs they are.
Take yours to Pro Systems or any carb specialist you desire and get the air horns milled, and all the trick work with bleeds, channel blockers, passages and the kitchen sink. It'll run better, smoother and more efficiently.
And right after that we'll talk about your needed cam swap and head porting...