ERA #776 Initial Startup Questions

[tgitchel]

I have a 390 FE bored/stroked to 445 in my ERA. Started it up for the first time this past weekend. Could only run it for about 5 min or so before the temp. would rise to over 230 degrees and I shut it down (I did this twice). I have the ERA provided heavy duty fan and an external box fan for ventilation (this is inside a two car garage). I have a 13lb radiator cap and about a 70/30 mix on the water/anti-freeze. My carb is a Braswell 4-barrel that was configured by them according to the engine specs. Edlebrock performer RPM intake, heads, and water pump.

The ERA manual shows a 4 gallon capacity of the cooling system, but it took almost 6 gallons to fill it up. is there supposed to be air space in the expansion tank? If so, how much (4 gallons seems too little)?

Should the radiator fan be enough to keep the engine temp below 220 while sitting in a garage (ambiant temp was about 75 degrees)? I have a big metal shop fan I could place in front of the car.

Do I need a higher pressure radiator cap? What amount? I have a preasure tester that I can use. How much higher than cap rating should I test for leaks?

It seems like the carb may be a little lean. How much will this affect the temp?

I am trying to maintain about 2,200 RPM for the initial break-in, but I am just guessing at it since my tach is not working. I'm usually pretty good at this, but this engine is larger than what I've had in the past and I could be off quite a bit. In looking at the MSD 6AL documentation, the wiring diagram in the ERA manual is confusing to me. Should the white/red wires coming from the MSD go to the ERA harness #40 as MSD red to ERA #40 white and MSD white to ERA #40 orange? Why wouldn't I use the tach output on the MSD? My gauges are SW.

I've rebuilt a few cars and boats in my day, but this FE stuff is new to me. Any sugguestions would be appreciated.

[Bobcat]

My shop manuals for my 427 Galaxie list cooling capacity at 20 quarts with the heater in the system . Subtract 1 quart for no heater . My gut feeling is that you have air in the system and need to bleed it . Try jacking the front of the car up , crack the upper right hand fitting on the radiator with some pressure on the system ( you said you have a pressure tester ) until there are no air bubbles coming out . Air pockets WILL cause the temps to spike . Did you drill two 1/8 " holes in the thermostat at the 12 o`clock position ? This really helps bleed the system . Also , remove the temp. sensor from your intake until coolant comes out with no air bubbles . Messy ? Yes , that`s why I do my initial startups on pure distilled water instead of coolant .
Stupid question and no insult intended , but is the thermostat in backwards ? I did that once . 13 lb cap is fine ... mine is 12 psi and I run 180 degrees . The ERA fans should keep you in that range in the garage as you aren`t in the really high temps yet .... though we will reach 90 here today . My ERA 482 never gets above 180 in the garage using only the ERA supplied fans .
Also , if your timing is retarded to much , the engine will run hot .... I run 21 degrees at 1000 rpm and 37 degrees max per my engine builder , Robert Pond .
Are you running the MSD distributor or another as that affects the wiring ??

Good luck ,
Bob

[tgitchel]

Thanks for the reply, Bob.

I did open the upper right-hand fitting and didn't notice any bubbles comming out. I tried "burping" the system by squeezing the water hoses. I will jack up the front and remove intake sensor as suggested and try some more. Also, I have one hole in the thermostat as per the recomendation that I saw in the ERA manual. Pretty sure it is installed correctly, but I will check that if other suggestions don't help.

Yes, MSD distributor. Any ideas on the tach not working? Hard to know for sure on the timing without a good RPM reading.

Thanks,
Tim

[ERA Chas]

See responses below:

Originally Posted by tgitchel

I have a 390 FE bored/stroked to 445 in my ERA. WHAT SIZE BORE AND STROKE? Started it up for the first time this past weekend. Could only run it for about 5 min or so before the temp. would rise to over 230 degrees and I shut it down (I did this twice). I have the ERA provided heavy duty fan and an external box fan for ventilation (this is inside a two car garage). I have a 13lb radiator cap and about a 70/30 mix on the water/anti-freeze. GET A 16 TO 18 POUND CAP My carb is a Braswell 4-barrel that was configured by them according to the engine specs. Edlebrock performer RPM intake, heads, and water pump.

The ERA manual shows a 4 gallon capacity of the cooling system, but it took almost 6 gallons to fill it up. is there supposed to be air space in the expansion tank? If so, how much (4 gallons seems too little)? YOU HAVE ABOUT GALLON TOO MUCH IN THE SYSTEM. THE EXPANSION TANK SHOULD HAVE ABOUT 1" OF WATER IN ITS BOTTOM COLD. THAT'S WHY IT'S CALLED THAT-IT LETS THE HOT SYSTEM HAVE A PLACE TO CONTAIN WATER INSTEAD OF GOING OUT THE OVERFLOW TUBE. DRAIN OUT A GALLON, RUN THE SYSTEM A FEW MINUTES TO CIRCULATE THEN CHECK LEVEL IN TANK WHEN COLD. ADJUST UNTIL YOU GET THAT 1" OR SO.

Should the radiator fan be enough to keep the engine temp below 220 while sitting in a garage (ambiant temp was about 75 degrees)? I have a big metal shop fan I could place in front of the car. IT SHOULD HOLD 220 BUT USE THE FLOOR FAN FOR NOW.

Do I need a higher pressure radiator cap? What amount? I have a preasure tester that I can use. TEST AT 25 PSI-NOT MUCH MORE OR YOU'LL SPLIT THE BRASS TANK.How much higher than cap rating should I test for leaks?

It seems like the carb may be a little lean. How much will this affect the temp? ABSOLUTELY THIS COULD BE A MAJOR CAUSE-SET IT RICH TO PIG-RICH FOR NOW FOR BREAK IN. WHEN YOU SOLVE THE ISSUES AND GET IT TO RUN COOLER RELIABLY YOU CAN WORK ON CARB ADJUSTMENTS.

I am trying to maintain about 2,200 RPM for the initial break-in, but I am just guessing at it since my tach is not working. I'm usually pretty good at this, but this engine is larger than what I've had in the past and I could be off quite a bit. STOP GUESSING AND BORROW OR STEAL A TACH OR TIMING LIGHT W/TACH. BREAK IN RPM IS VERY IMPORTANT.In looking at the MSD 6AL documentation, the wiring diagram in the ERA manual is confusing to me. Should the white/red wires coming from the MSD go to the ERA harness #40 as MSD red to ERA #40 white and MSD white to ERA #40 orange? Why wouldn't I use the tach output on the MSD? My gauges are SW. CAN'T HELP YOU HERE, MY CAR HAS A DIFFERENT WIRING HARNESS.

I've rebuilt a few cars and boats in my day, but this FE stuff is new to me. Any sugguestions would be appreciated. WHEN BORED AND STROKED WAS THE BLOCK, OIL GALLERYS AND WATER JACKETS BOILED AND CLEANED OUT? I'M GUESSING YOU HAVE PAPER THIN WALLS (LESS THAN .120") AND THERE IS TO MUCH RAPID HEAT TRANSFER.

[tgitchel]

Thank you for the information Chas.

Hopefully, I can get my tach working. If not, I'll see if I can find a timing light w/tach.

I'm not sure on the exact bore/stroke of the block since my brother took care of all the specs for me. Pretty sure the machine shop did a complete boil and clean job.

[strictlypersonl]

If your engine (cam, probably) needs breaking in at 2200 rpm for a prolonged period, I would augment the engine fan with an external one. You're generating more heat than usual, first from the higher rpm, second from what is most likely a tight engine.

Your tach should work OK with a wire directly from the MSD tach output to the signal side (not the green-wire side) of the tachometer.

[tgitchel]

Originally Posted by strictlypersonl

If your engine (cam, probably) needs breaking in at 2200 rpm for a prolonged period, I would augment the engine fan with an external one. You're generating more heat than usual, first from the higher rpm, second from what is most likely a tight engine.

Your tach should work OK with a wire directly from the MSD tach output to the signal side (not the green-wire side) of the tachometer.

Yes, I was trying to maintain 2,200 RPM for 30 min total with the break in oil before letting it idle for the first time.

Should I leave the orange wire at ERA harness #40 connected to the white wire of the MSD, or disconnect and just have the wire from the MSD tach output going directly to the signal side of the tach?

[ERA Chas]

Just repeating-richen the carb because lean=hot.

[tgitchel]

I plan to do these things before attempting to start it again:

1.) Raise front of car until upper-right fitting on radiator is above expansion tank. Open fitting and pressurize exp. tank to force out water until no bubbles.

2.) Drain coolant (about 1 gallon) until only 1" is remaining in expansion tank when car is level.

3.) replace jets in front bowl of carb with larger ones to richen.

4.) get tachometer working (or use timing light w/tach) to insure 2,200 RPM

5.) use large shop fan to augment radiator fan

6.) check for proper timing advance (once started, obviously)


Does this sound about right?

[Bobcat]

My chassis is # 757 ... I think my wiring harness is like yours ... maybe B.P. can chime in . I used the MSD tach output , but had to run a wire ( orange was my choice ) from the MSD tach output to the orange wire labeled #40 in the ERA harness . I ran/connected the red from the MSD unit to the white wire labeled # 40 in the ERA harness . You will have to furnish the wire from the tach output as it isn`t supplied .
The MSD white wire is only used if you want/have a kill switch .... tape it up . Orange from the MSD connects to the + of the coil and black from the MSD connects to - on the coil . These are the only two wires ( on mine ) that connect to the coil . One note ... ERA is very emphatic in isolating the distributor wires from the MSD unit to the distributor from all others . I ran them down the manifold valley on the driver`s side and ran the others down the passenger`s side . You can induce some really strange transients if not careful .
I`ve got the SW tach also , but ended up having to use the MSD tach adapter also .
x2 on what Charles said about expansion tank levels and richening up the carb .
Hope this helps .
Bob

[tgitchel]

Thanks Bob, that is helpful.

I did make sure to run the distributor wire by itself down the passenger side away from any other wires.

Can anyone else confirm that the MSD tach adapter is required for the SW gage?

EDIT: upon further research, it appears that the adapter is NOT required for MSD 6AL to SW tach.

[Jim Holden]

Have you checked the timing?

Jim

[tgitchel]

Originally Posted by Jim Holden

Have you checked the timing?

Jim

As soon as I get the tach to function I will verify that the timing is sufficiently advanced.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

I have a 390 FE bored/stroked to 445 in my ERA. Started it up for the first time this past weekend. Could only run it for about 5 min or so before the temp. would rise to over 230 degrees and I shut it down (I did this twice).

For the temp to do this twice my guess is something ain't spaghetti,take out the thermostat and check it in a pot of water on the stove and see that it opens and closes as it should, make it cycle 2 or 3 times, then re-install, make double sure it is installed facing the right way........regardless of the other stuff, your temp should not have done this........once started and running, temp should climb and once it passes 180 (assuming you have a 180 degree thermostat) it will open and you should notice your temp drop some, maybe to 170 as cool/cold water starts flowing in the motor, shortly thereafter, it'll start to go up..

With your fans and a shop fan in the front, temp should not exceed 200 or so......

Check the simple things first.........they are the ones that'll get you eveytime......

David

[tboneheller]

I had the same problem (I thought) on mine. It turned out that the temp. gauge was off. I found this out by placing a thermometer in the coolant.

[DonC]

Important to follow the advice about getting all of the air out of the cooling system. I always wait to top off the system until I get the front end up. Also important to make sure the 1/8" hole is drilled in the thermostat.
A pain in the tail to check that the thermostat isn't in backwards but it can happen.
Water in the expansion tank should be about to the interior shelf when the engine is cold.
DonC

[tgitchel]

Originally Posted by tboneheller

I had the same problem (I thought) on mine. It turned out that the temp. gauge was off. I found this out by placing a thermometer in the coolant.

Good point. I will verify the correct temp on the gauge. Thanks for the tip.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by tgitchel

Good point. I will verify the correct temp on the gauge. Thanks for the tip.

Not only do I ALWAYS check a thermostat on the stove in a pot of water, I ALWAYS do the same with the temp gauge before installing it in anything........If it's not too much trouble to remove, I would also test your temp gauge.........

I've tested 5 so far and three were exactly the same, one was about 5 degrees too high on the reading and the 5th one was off by 10 degrees............

oddly enough, the el-cheapo Auto Zone/J.C. Whitney gauges were the most accurate, go figure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

David

[SSSammy]

#745 had a very similar problem when it was started up in Sep 07. There is a thread here .. a lot of the same suggestions were made. You know what it was? The oil temp probe and the water temp probe look identical from the engine side of the firewall. I had the oil temp probe screwed into the intake manifold and the water temp probe screwed into the oil pan. As the engine warmed up, I had a nice 180 deg oil temp, but a wildly fluctuating 220-250 water temp!

So just do a quick check on that as well

Sam

[tgitchel]

Thanks Sam. Adding that to my list...