LED Upgrade to Rear Rectangular Lights

[RodKnock]

Then why do car manufacturers ALWAYS install them at the top of the trunk line and not near the bottom of the rear valance?

Trust you? Trust no one, just like Mulder on the X-Files.

Don't believe everything you read, Buddha also once wrote.

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Significantly? Oh come on. Then why are they all mounted high on new or newer cars? If it's too low, then who can see as well as one near the top of the trunk line. Drivers can be morons, did the research include morons? Seriously, who will notice those 6 little tiny holes? If you do it, then cut out a nice rectangular swath and install something really big.

An aircraft landing light with a red lens would get you "noticed".

[patrickt]

Look, I found this for you: http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/problems/e...tml#EVALUATION

Now, obviously, if a light is right directly in your field of vision that's better than if it's up, down, or to the side. But the most important aspect of the third light is that it's different to your mind. And btw, those six LEDs will put out over 33,000mcd of luminous intensity.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Look, I found this for you: http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/problems/e...tml#EVALUATION

Now, obviously, if a light is right directly in your field of vision that's better than if it's up, down, or to the side. But the most important aspect of the third light is that it's different to your mind. And btw, those six LEDs will put out over 33,000mcd of luminous intensity.

OK, I read until the 2nd word where it said "Government", then I stopped.

You know, I have no idea what 33,000mcd of luminous intensity means? I have nothing to compare it against. Are you sure you don't mean an "MGD" as in beer?

BTW, you must also know that I really don't care, I'm just giving you a hard time. G-d bless you, if you want to experiment with a 3rd brake light. As long as you don't mind us REAL Cobra owners in The Registry laughing AT you.

It's Friday!

[spfcobra2567]

I was considering LEDs that do the quick 3 flashes and then go solid. These are just a replacement bulb with all circuitry built in. Saw them on etrailer.com with part number P235157W for $80 a pair. Then I wondered if they would be synchronized, being separate circuitry.
I mentioned my interest to Dennis Olthoff before he was done with my install, but he said LEDs get hot and he has had to replace plastic housings for people that have installed LEDs. I was always with the belief that LEDs were cooler than filament bulbs.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

BTW, you must also know that I really don't care, I'm just giving you a hard time. G-d bless you...

I know you are. It's part of our shtick.

Originally Posted by spfcobra2567

... but he said LEDs get hot and he has had to replace plastic housings for people that have installed LEDs. I was always with the belief that LEDs were cooler than filament bulbs.

Huh. He tends to know what he's doing, but every LED I have ever met ran cool. But here's a really thorough answer from, of all places, LED Magazine http://www.ledsmagazine.com/features/2/5/8 Lemmee tell you, I read some obscure crap, but nothing quite as obscure as LED Maagazine.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Lemmee tell you, I read some obscure crap, but nothing quite as obscure as LED Maagazine.

You outta get a job or something to occupy your time, if you're reading LED magazine. Oye vey.

Though it's probably a source of "enlightenment." But, maybe not in the same league as Buddha's Four Noble Truths.

[KevinW]

Great banter, but to get back to LEDs....

is it possible to get an LED light that combines red/clear for the stop with an orange/yellow turn indicator? in the uk using a red turn indicator is illegal, but I still want to fit the rectangular lights. Of course I could fit >1 bulb to the unit, but it would be bodgy and messy.

(other cobra owners with the rect lights here have inserted an orange lens in the housing or run an extra seperate turn light, neither of which I am keen on doing)

[patrickt]

Kevin, I know of no "dual color" LED automotive bulbs that would do what you want. I think what you would need to do is directly wire in LED PCB lights of both RED and AMBER in to the back of the rectangular fixture. Here is what I think would work: http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-b...%2Fpcblamp.htm Note that you would probably have to cut in and extend the wires if you couldn't fit it all in because the base can not be clipped off (it contains the driver circuit). But I don't know if an amber array of LEDs behind a red lens is going to look anything but red -- you'd have to test it out to be sure.

[SF_SN888KE]

I also thought about brake light on top and turn signal on lower (rectangle tail lights) but seems to me that you would have to cut the reflective lens out and replace it.

I know that are some newer CLEAR 3rd brake light license plate frames using LEDs.
Some interesting LED frames and light bars:
http://www.rodworx.com/products.php?scatid=4
http://www.customdynamics.com/Light_bars.htm

If the christmas tree lights around the rollbar don't work ....


how about a wireless 3rd brake light on the back of your baseball cap?



http://www.webbikeworld.com/r2/riderlight/

[KevinW]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Kevin, I know of no "dual color" LED automotive bulbs that would do what you want. I think what you would need to do is directly wire in LED PCB lights of both RED and AMBER in to the back of the rectangular fixture. Here is what I think would work: http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-b...%2Fpcblamp.htm Note that you would probably have to cut in and extend the wires if you couldn't fit it all in because the base can not be clipped off (it contains the driver circuit). But I don't know if an amber array of LEDs behind a red lens is going to look anything but red -- you'd have to test it out to be sure.

thanks, thats interesting.
I already bought a big amber LED that fits in the bulb holder. A quick test shows that it works, although the light is orange rather than amber!
i got the idea from an FFR article on doing this thats on the web somewhere, but i diodnt like their LED arrangement.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by KevinW

A quick test shows that it works, although the light is orange rather than amber!

Is orange far enough up the spectrum to pass in the UK?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

OK, look at this. The size of the 5mm LEDs with either the clear or red plastic cover over them is almost exactly the size of those little white punchouts for three ring paper. Now imagine that they are either red, or clear, as per the lens pic below. Now seriously, what do you think?



This would be even better. These 5mm High Flux Piranha LEDs have a clear bulb that only peek out 2mm.

Any news on the discotheque?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Any news on the discotheque?

As a matter of fact, "Yes." I ordered a half dozen of both the 3mm and 5mm super bright LEDs and they have arrived. The 5mm lights are very bright; maybe too bright. I'm serious. So I'm first going to experiment with the 3mm ones. I need to glue them in to an array, solder the backs, and then I'll review how bright it appears. I might get that done tonight. If the array of 3mm LEDs looks right, then I'll drill the holes in the back of the light fixture.

[patrickt]

OK, here's a picture of what the LEDs look like. The little round bulb is only 3mm in diameter and has a height of only 1mm. It will barely stick past the chrome hole in the license plate light.



Here are six of them superglued together. The back has the little prongs soldered together.



And here are some pics. I think it's definitely bright enough. Tomorrow I'll take a crack at drilling the six 3mm holes in the license plate light and mounting it in there. If it looks good, I'll keep going. There's a little plastic liner inside the light that will require some fabbing, and I'll need to add a little resistor as well. I'll only tackle that if the six little LEDs look pretty much invisible in the light itself. Here are some shots of them lit. It's pretty tough to take a picture of a lit LED, so no complaining.

[RodKnock]

It's hard to gauge the scale with the pics, but you could blind drivers with that 3rd brake light.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

It's hard to gauge the scale with the pics, but you could blind drivers with that 3rd brake light.

I don't think so, but I'll try and figure that out as well. The trunk light is almost exactly 24" off the ground. OK, here's a decent shot of the six LEDs that are glued together. This will give you a feel for the size. Of course, if I screw up the drilling of the six 3mm holes, or if it looks like crap, then I'll just trash the project. These LEDs are only about twenty five cents each.

[tkb289]

Patrick,

Been following your trunk mounted LED experiment, have a suggestion for assembly.

That is to drill the holes in the housing with a center to center distance slightly further apart than the width of one LED. Once the holes are all done, then install the LEDs one at a time, this might be easier in the long run, than trying to line up a pre glued block of LEDs with the holes. Then wire it up and if it works and looks good, pot the whole thing with silicone glue or hot melt glue.

If you have access to a mill, that would make getting the holes accurately placed a lot easier and it would look better too if the spacing and alignment was right on.

Not that you can't achieve excellent results with a punch, drill and a steady hand.

Will be interested to see how it looks!

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by tkb289

That is to drill the holes in the housing with a center to center distance slightly further apart than the width of one LED. Once the holes are all done, then install the LEDs one at a time, this might be easier in the long run, than trying to line up a pre glued block of LEDs with the holes. Then wire it up and if it works and looks good, pot the whole thing with silicone glue or hot melt glue.

I bet that would look better. OK, "next guy" take note and do it that way. Actually, I've already determined that the six 3mm LEDs, at least while outside the license plate light assembly, look really, really, good. I wasn't even sure how they would look until I glued them all together, soldered their backs, and fired them up. I'll set up a little template for drilling the six holes to try and make it easier on myself. I'll practice on something else before I use my one and only extra light fixture. I'm already sure though that if you had someone skilled doing this that it would come out perfectly. I don't think you'll even be able to see the little LEDs unless you squat down on your knees at the back of the car.

[patrickt]

Here's a pic with them installed in the light fixture. If you didn't know those six holes weren't supposed to be there, you wouldn't notice them. All of the "innards" of the light are now installed as well. All that was needed was to use the Dremel cutting wheel to cut a piece out of the inner plastic lining.