What are the major updates made by ERA

[Dennis Mosley]

Hey everyone! Figured this would be the place to post this question.

A few weeks ago, I asked people to give my their opinions on ERA vs CCX. I got a lot of great info on both cars. One thing that kept popping up was that because ERA was still in business, they were constantly making upgrades to their car to make it better. That lead me to the question, of What are the "major" upgrades done to the car since the mid '80's? What would be my advantage to buying a car completed in 2001 over a car completed in 1986?

[Grubby]

Begins at chassis #
CHANGE

6 Wiring harness design finalized
50 Aluminum floors replace steel
70 Subaru steering gear replaces Nissan
92 ERA tubular subframe replaces XKE sheet-metal one
150 Footboxes lengthened for extra leg room
220 Tilton master cylinders replace ATE brand *
265 Bulkhead behind seats moved, exposing the roll bar lower legs
350 Front X member between front suspension towers changed from square to round tubing
565 All chassis have mounting points for ERA rear suspension
600 Aluminum radiator instead of brass, using original style top and bottom mounts and shrouding
650 Wiring harness improvements for easier installation
731 Major improvements to body, inner panels and chassis
758 Steering gear and mounting system changed
* Recommended update


Taken from the ERA web site. There is a wealth of information there.

John

[AL427SBF]

... not to mention the general improvements in quality of materials and fabrication 15 years of tech progress can make

... not to mention the wear & tear/fatique in materials separated by 15 years of time

... I'm sure the list is substantial if you get away from just the "ERA" differences

[Dennis Mosley]

Thanks for the info Grubby! I was able to find that chart on ERA. Didn't think they would have something like that on the site.

AL427BF, True indeed. 15 years could put a lot of wear and tear on a car. Guess it would kind of depend on the car though too. Take a 20 yr old car that's been well taken care of and an 8 year old car that has been rode hard and put up wet and alot of those things equalize. Problem is on the surface, you are only going to know what the current owner tells you. You would have to make your own educated guess after inspection as to condition. The ERA changes however can be documented.

So far, the only changes that I see that would make a real difference to me on a completed car would be the replacement of the master cylinders and the radiator. Both of those can be handled.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

... not to mention the general improvements in quality of materials and fabrication 15 years of tech progress can make

... not to mention the wear & tear/fatique in materials separated by 15 years of time

... I'm sure the list is substantial if you get away from just the "ERA" differences

WTF are you talking about? Do you own an ERA? Have you compared early and late ERA's anywhere other than on a screen? Do you go to the shop and observe techniques? Unless any of those are true (and you know what you're looking at) you aren't qualified to give advice to a guy looking to make a sizable investment.
The materials and techniques are substantially what they were when 002 was built. Chassis jigs are the same with allowance for later features. Body and footbox molds are different. The features and options expanded over time.
Nothing lasts 30 years of use unless the quality and engineering was correct. There is no vast chasm of quality difference over the near-800 427 cars. Nor the FIA's to the early 427's.
Mosley is right-a cared-for early car with just the rad and masters upgrades is perfectly comparable to a newer car. And in some cases a better value. Other quality/race/reliability parts added by owners over time can make it superior in every parameter to a 'factory assembled' car to a lesser content. That's the beauty of ERA-what fits on a newer car can be retro-fit to an older.
Ask how I know.

[patrickt]

If you're of "normal" size, any well-built and well-cared for ERA will do you just fine -- even if it's 20 years old. Beginning with 731, you get some extra room in the foot boxes -- that might be of importance to you.

[lamaluv]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

[i]The materials and techniques are substantially what they were when 002 was built. Chassis jigs are the same with allowance for later features. Body and footbox molds are different. The features and options expanded over time.
Nothing lasts 30 years of use unless the quality and engineering was correct.

Chas one thing that has changed is that Bob welded the first 5 or so chassis himself. Acording to both Peter and Doug a car built in early 1980 can still be very roadworthy

Dick

[ERA Chas]

Well that's a great comfort to you. Mine came a little later so I missed the 'Putnam touch'. But since he had a hand in designing most all the systems, I / we still benefit.
How 'bout you? You ever sense that the quality in workmanship and materials was superior in later cars than your pioneer??

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

... quality in workmanship and materials was superior in later cars than your pioneer??

No. I've seen some of the earlier ones (not down to 002 though) and the quality is pretty consistent. Other than the changes, they're pretty much the same over the years.

[Grubby]

I owned 178 and now 755. The visual differences in the trunk, floor/ interior and under the hood are very noticeable. The overal quality of the cars is about the same, but the newest cars are hands down better looking.

I second the comment about 15 years of technology. These cars may look like 65s but they have some nice features like heated seats.

If possible look at both an older and newer ERA and decide for yourself.

John

[Rickd]

The construction / fabrication QUALITY is the same - always has been superior. What has changed is some of the subtle design aspects that Bob Putnam could detail for you - between the "old" bodies and the "new" ones from #7xx on. I believe Bob's comment was that they wanted to take the 427 body / visual features to the same degree of compatibilty to the original as they had done with the 289 FIA car. The 289 is a visual clone of the original - body, engine compartment details, trunk, passenger compartment, gas tank layout - battery in the tire well.

[AL427SBF]

Surely you can't be serious, the improvements in fiberglass layup alone would be enough for me to probably walk away from an '86 built body ...

what we now know about grain orientation ...
what we now know/developed with kevlar ...
improved resins, ISO standards etc ...

I'm sure Mr. Putnam would agree that ERA continues to employ the latest advances in materials, processes and components. To think an '86 car is as refined as a 2001 car is just plain stupid.

That's the beauty of ERA-what fits on a newer car can be retro-fit to an older. Ask how I know.

Oh I know why, you've done it, retrofitted your ERA with Putnam's finest upgrades. Isn't that the point, let's not send Dennis down that same dirt road aka 'Money Pit Lane' because you had to

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

Oh I know why, you've done it, retrofitted your ERA with Putnam's finest upgrades. Isn't that the point, let's not send Dennis down that same dirt road aka 'Money Pit Lane' because you had to

Now that's pretty funny.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

Surely you can't be serious

Chas, he called you "Shirley." Them's fighting words.

I'm not sure I've read a much more serious person than Chas. He's about as "serious" as they come.

[cscobra]

Aluminum wheelwells and aluminum trunk panels from #731 (plus other chassis changes), as well as the new steering gear from #758, appealed to me when I bought my kit (#766). Although the trunk panels are covered with carpet (or will be !), I sure like the looks of the aluminum wheelwells better than the older fiberglass approach. None of these can be retrofitted (at least, not very easily) to chassis older than #731.

[Dennis Mosley]

I think I'm just going to let AL427BF and Chas duke it out on their own. I will say that the amount of advancement in fiberglass tech given how these things are made and the application would not matter to me. If the body has held up this long and not fallen apart or become riddled with stress cracks, I'm pretty sure it will hold up.

cscobra, the aluminum would be really nice but probably not enough to sway me either way.

Grubby, I will go sit in both and find out if the extra room is needed for me I don't think it will be too much of a factor though.

After seeing the list of major improvements I think almost all of them would only matter to me if I was buying one directly from the factory.

Thanks for the input guys.

[AL427SBF]

No duke out wih Chas, you asked a question and got your responses, now go forward and get your cobra

[patrickt]

Going through the ERA build process, and customizing your Cobra to exactly what it is you want, is well worth the nickel or dime premium that it will cost. The time it takes to do all that has its pluses and minuses, but it is what it is. If you can overlook the inaccuracies (or if they just don't matter to you to begin with) of the SPF, like the pedals, radiator, etc., then an SPF is probably the bargain of the two. You can put an FE in either, you know -- and I hope you do.

[AL427SBF]

You can put an FE in either, you know -- and I hope you do.

Not so fast there Chester! Or you can put in 427w SBF and ...

427w SBF vs. the traditional 427FE BB?
Weighs approx. 200lbs. less than a Big Block 427FE.
Improved internals over factory 351w. (Forged Connecting Rods, Crank and Pistons)
Same Dimensions as 351w.
Approx. 2-3 inches less in Width and Height than 427FE.
Huge Torque increase over factory 351 engine (500+lbs. when built properly)
Runs Cooler than a Big Block Ford.
Vehicle Handles and Corners Better than a Big Block Engine.
Just as Fast or Faster 0-60 or 0-100mph times than a Big Block.
Runs thousands less in cost to a Big BLock.
Still have the bragging rights of a 427 cubic inch engine under the hood.

[Dennis Mosley]

Been around these cars for a long time now and this will be my 2nd cobra. Built the first from the ground up in 1999 and have helped at least 5 others build theirs. Worked with different brands but never ERA. ERA has made the short list in my search as it did the first time I built a cobra.

This time I think I'm going to buy a completed car but even then, unless it it exactlly like I would have built it which is highly unlikely, it will be driven to the garage, dismanteled and rebuilt and repainted to my specs. This car will be the base for me to build from. Even doing that, as long as I work a good deal on the car, I will come out ahead on the $$$ side vs building new. Lots of spreadsheet work and price checking firmed that up.

Patrickt, sold my other car as a roller so there is a very nice 550hp FE engine sitting in my garage that will be cleaned up and put into use if necessary

I haven't decided ERA is that way to go just yet but like I said it's on the short list of 3 and I hope to decide which way I'm going to go in the next few weeks.