ERA Engine work question?

[Kramer]

Guys,

After the past two years of starter issues, flywheel teeth missing etc. I am starting a project to replace the ring gear and starter. My question is can I do this without pulling the engine out of the car? My plan was just to pull the tunnel out, then transmission etc to get to the flywheel? Has anyone done this type of work without pulling the engine out? (FYI...the engine is a 427 SO).

Thanks,
Kramer

[Grubby]

There is plenty of room to remove the flywheel without pulling the engine.

John

[ERA Chas]

[SSSammy]

I've done it half a dozen times ... The hardest part is lifting the tranny out of the cockpit without herniating oneself. ERA has to come out from the top. I find that a deep sumo-like grunt works best. Or like the jet jocks do to keep from passing out when pulling g's

Once that is done, then you can go underneath for the bell-housing, clutch, and flywheel. Stick a screwdriver in the starter bolt hole and through a hole in the flywheel to hold it still while you unbolt it.

I don't remember if we discussed this in a phone call, but Tilton had me take my Tilton Super Starter housing to a machine shop and have them take .060" off the face of it (the face that mates to the block plate/bell housing). That was the only way it would allow the pinion gear to engage the ring gear enough to meet the Tilton spec. Sort of a negative shim. If you are having similar "mis-engagement" that would eat the ring gear up.

Check the pilot bushing and see if it looks ok as you install the new flywheel. Some people say use new bolts every time. I don't, but I do use Red Loctite. Use the screwdriver again to hold it while you torque the bolts. ARP bolts don't use washers. And McLeod Alum F/W have steel bushings in the bolt holes so you can torque 'em good ...

Good luck!
Sam

[mr0077]

I avoided the "grunt" factor by using my engine hoist and an appropriate sling...made fairly easy (nice and slow) one-man work of lifting the toploader...

[Kramer]

Thanks guys. I have the seats and carpet out now and should have the tunnel out by the night. I can't tell you how good it feels to know I don't have to pull the engine!!

Kramer

[strictlypersonl]

It helps to have a small jack support the rear end of the pan so that the engine tilts up at the back.

[SSSammy]

Originally Posted by strictlypersonl

It helps to have a small jack support the rear end of the pan so that the engine tilts up at the back.

What Bob said. Here is some more: loosen the motor mount nuts at the perches. Remove the sheet metal bell housing cover just ahead of the tunnel so you will have the ability to tilt the engine up. If you are just tilting a little bit, there is enough slip in the side pipe joints that nothing will get bent. Non-ERA flange mount guys go ahead and take 'em loose.

Disconnect clutch actuator (or hyd line if that is what you have). Remove shifter, speedo cable, NSS, driveshaft, and tranny mount nuts, either at the frame or at the tranny. When you jack the engine, put a board under the pan so you don't damage it. Be very careful with a sheet metal pan. I jack at the rear most edge, not at the lowest point of the reservoir. You want the rear of the tranny to come up about two inches. This is so the tranny housing will slide back and not hit the e-brake bracket. You have to pull it back about 10" or so to get the shaft out of the BH. If you have the shipping plugs that came with the tranny, stick those back in the tail shaft and speedo hole. Otherwise, a rag and try not to tilt the tranny back or it will disgorge it's fluid. Of course you could drain it, but GM Synchromesh is $15 a qt.

Sam

[Kramer]

Thanks Sammy. FYI...regarding your starter from Tilton.

1) Does it turn the motor over without effort (as opposed to a stock OEM starter)? I have had both a powermaster and now a OEM starter.

2) What BH are you running in your car?

Kramer

[patrickt]

Here's a decent shot that shows you the room you have. This is Brent's car (ERA-723), not mine, but I don't have any shots of mine with the sides of the tunnel around the bell housing removed else I would have happiliy posted them.

[SSSammy]

Originally Posted by Kramer

Thanks Sammy. FYI...regarding your starter from Tilton.

1) Does it turn the motor over without effort (as opposed to a stock OEM starter)? I have had both a powermaster and now a OEM starter.

2) What BH are you running in your car?

Kramer

http://www.tiltonracing.com/incs/ima...?picture=s0052

The Tilton 54-20013 has the Ford 3 bolt flange. It is 3 HP and will spin my 482 easily. Rick Lake says he uses his to drive his ERA up into the trailer when it won't start But they are expensive - $459 at Summit. But the PowerMaster ought to get er done if it is equivalent HP. I wouldn't use the OEM for a high compression BB motor on a hot track day. For street use it might be ok. I use the Lakewood 15210, with the bottom trimmed per ERA manual.

Sam

[Jim Holden]

Be careful to keep the trans level, otherwise you may have an oil spill that rivals the recent one in the Gulf of Mexico... (This comment from sad experience).

Jim

[RICK LAKE]

Kramer Sam has it right. I have driven the car into the trailer on the starter. This Tilton is strong. Having the correct clearance is so important for full contact of flywheel to drive. I did have to replace my starter drive from the beginning when the center bolt came loose and the motor spun the wrong way. The rest of the starter has 15 years on it.
Getting the Lakewood bellhousing centered was the biggest pain. This was .038" out of center, and I didn't cut my bellhousing either. This also didn't help in the beginning. I found that about .035" and the drive all the way out are good specs.
As far as the trans, if you goto autozone of pepeboys they sell a plug kit for all trans. These are cheap but for the couple of times to pull the trans, well worth the money. If you don't want the oil leak in the car and can't get plugs, drain into a clean bottle and reuse.
I agree with Sam about the stock starter DON'T have the power to crank big stroker motors or high compression motors over 10.5. Big heavy cables and 1000 cca battery with a 12.6- 12.8 total charge will crank it but slow if hot. It's not how fast the motor spins to start it, just that it can crank it 50 to 75 rpms. Think of it as a merlin P-51 motor.
As far as bellhousing. Quicktime has gotten their info now correct and SFI testing done. The next bell I am going with will be a Quicktime (SFI) for my 498 motor. They are about 10-20 pounds lighter than Lake wood. This is also with a 22 pound aluminum SFI flywheel. If I was to use the 40 pound flywheel, ONLY a lakewood for me. I have them on all my stick cars and trucks. I have blown 2 clutches and had discs pieces all over inside these bellhousing. They are heavy and work.
When you pull the trans, If you are a bull, it's a one man job. If you are not 100% sure you can handle this 85-90 pound trans get some help. I have swapped my trans in about 1.3 hours. I have done bull work all my life, the guys laugh at me for this. My car has no rugs or parking brakes.
When you put the trans back into the car get 2 long studs as guides to slide in and hold the weight. You may need 1 guy on top and the other under the car to slide the trans the last 1/2" DON'T use the trans tabs to pull the tran in the last 1/2". Have the clutch hooked up. When you get to this point and the trans will not slide the last 1/2", engage the pedal enought to unload the pressure plate and let the disc move and the trans should slide in easy to the bellhousing. A little high temp grease on the pilot bushing or bearing abd end of input shaft. If you have a problem Call SAM and say HELP ME!!!!!! Good luck. I have to install my new twin disc setup myself. It's raining good day to do this. Rick L.

[Kramer]

Update....After picking up new ring gear and a Robbmc Starter, I finally got the transmission out of the car. I was hoping it was as simple as replacing the ring gear and putting in my third (and hopefully last) starter.

While I don't have pictures, here is what I found. The ring gear had at least four 5 teeth missing a few close together and another random one missing. AND THEN, upon pulling off the clutch and flex plate, I notice one of the ARP bolts that attaches the flywheel to the motor was sheered off and the bolt was rolling around on the inside. Nearest I can tell, it did not tear up the face of the flywheel just the inside rim of flywheel where the six bolts are housed. I then noticed that the inside of the flex plate was fairly chewed up as well....perhaps this caused my starter issues, but who knows.

Bottom line, I went ahead and order a new flex plate (clucth plate), new ARP bolts and flywheel in hopes I can finally fix this issue for good. New parts will be hear on Friday so I will go from there...

Thanks for all the feedback everyone..

Kramer

[Hans-Olof Blom]

Use 2 studs in the Bell housing to fix the tranny's position. Then you just have to find the right angle and that is quite easy.