Commissioning a Turn Key ERA 427 Cobra

[Flygirl]

As far as the engine debate goes, I'll be sourcing it through ERA if I go that route, so in a sense other speculation is a moot point.

[FUNFER2]

"I was wearing high fidelity headphones. I think setting the camera on the seat wasn't helping matters any, and the part with the car idling in the garage just didn't make sense to me, with the sound echoing off those freshly finished walls. Editing would definitely help; my Mac came with free software that makes that possible."

Like I said, I made the vids for the buyer,... of my 428, so he could hear the engine start cold, not prewarmed like many people would do,....warm up on the driveway, putt around a few blocks, on the highway and getting on the go pedal a little, so that he could hear exactly what he was getting, with out editing.

He was very appriciating for my doing so, and I was honest.

[FUNFER2]

Good idea. I believe ERA has various engines at times to sell. You'll know you'll get a good motor from them.

[blykins]

Yes, my engines are turn-key. But even if they weren't, I wouldn't sell one without a harmonc balancer....

Here's a list of what you get with one of my engines for around that price....down to the starter, braided fuel line, etc.

B2 Motorsports LLC

Flygirl...

Give me a call if you want to see what your options are in regards to engines. If you go through ERA, they will probably source your engine through Danbury Engines. I've heard good things about them, but if you wanted to price shop, any of the builders (including myself) that advertise here on Club Cobra would be happy to give you a quote. We all work with the different Cobra manufacturers and ship engines to them on a regular basis.

Even if you go through another builder, feel free to call me and pick my brain about your engine choices. I wouldn't discount the 390FE route. With the stroker kit, you can have more streetable horsepower/torque than a comparatively built 427 S/O or C/O.....for a lot less money.

[FUNFER2]

You can't go wrong with Brent. He's honest and builds a great motor. He also has many other non-engine parts, like clutches ect.....

(Brent- good to see your new website) !

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by Flygirl

.... And it'd be even more okay the first time my mom gets into the car and doesn't burn herself on the side pipes.....

Another option would be the undercar exhaust, but exiting in front of the rear wheels
Cheers,
Glen

[blykins]

I love undercar exhaust on Cobras. I actually prefer the sound of a nice performance muffler over the sidepipe sound. It also helps to free up some ponies as some of the manufacturer sidepipes can be really restrictive.

[car4jim]

Fly girl. There must be some kind of story behind your attraction to a period correct Cobra! Please do tell!

[Flygirl]

Thanks guys, for all your help. Like a sponge, absorbing it all...

_________

The story behind the attraction:

My dad was a management executive with Ford. I was brought home from hospital, for the very first time, in a '56 Lincoln. Then came the 60s. First car I remember was a '65 Galaxie 500 convertible with the 427 and a four speed. Followed by Shelbys from '66-68, a '69 Mach 1 Convertible with the 428 Cobra Jet, four speed, and a shaker hood scoop (black with a white top and white interior, I LOVED that car!), and then a '70 Boss 302.

Dad did not like the '71 Mustang (don't know if it was the size, or the fact that Bunkie Knudsen designed it) and there was a brief interlude until the Panteras came along. Which he also didn't like so much, due to the poor workmanship and tendency to overheat. But, man, did I like being driven in them!

Then came the dark ages and my first car, a '73 Pinto Runabout, which I still own, followed by the Bronco years.

I was gifted an '80 Fox Mustang with the TRX suspension, 2.3 turbo/five speed and T-tops (which made me very popular), then traded up to an '82 Mustang with the "big" 5.0/five speed churning out 157hp. This car made me so happy, it signaled Ford's return to the performance market and I loved it very much. That in turn was replaced by an '86 SVO, which turned out to be another less than fulfilling turbo 2.3 experience for me.

So I've kind of always driven Fords (more recently a semi-restored '65 GT Convertible A-code car and fast but thrashed '68 California Special), except for the Porsche years (another story entirely) and the supercharged Miata with a terrible case of trailing throttle oversteer (which, oddly enough, prepared me for the Porsches).

The Cobra is the one car I wish dad owned. It's also my favorite post WWII Ford hands down, the styling and the driveline too. And it's just bad-a$$.

So there you have it.

_____________

PS, here's my piece of Ford history. My Pinto! Funny, the things we end up with.

[decooney]

Originally Posted by Flygirl

As far as the engine debate goes, I'll be sourcing it through ERA if I go that route, so in a sense other speculation is a moot point.

Natalie,
That's probably a good thing. ERA use to source motors through Danbury Competition, (and if they still are) those guys won't build something for a turnkey car that's not going to last, and it won't be overly radical. Therefore, much of the prior discussion is a moot point. ERA knows... they've been doing this for a long time, and I continue to be impressed by Bob's knowledge and attention to detail. Looking at those years growing up, seems like you could change your handle from Flygirl to FordGirl

[tkb289]

Natalie,

Sounds like you grew up with a great mix of performance Fords from the 60's and 70's … and you certainly have the Cobra bug. Along with the fun of a Cobra … you will meet a lot of great folks along the way, and I have no doubt that your build thread will have quite a following.

You mention Wimbledon white with no stripes, should make for a very clean look. As mentioned above, think about the under car exhaust that exits before the rear wheel, as this will give you the choice of running the optional ERA rear suspension setup. That and the 5 speed, if you plan to do a lot of freeway driving.

You have a clear vision of what you want in a Cobra, which is great. Pass that onto Peter, then listen carefully to what Peter / Bob / Doug & crew at ERA recommend, as they have been building these cars for a very long time and know what works well. They will do their very best to build you the Cobra of your dreams.

- Tim

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by Flygirl

__________

Dan, thanks for the input. I would go with the scoop, riveted. I like the way it looks from the driver's seat.

Not sure about the narrower wheels in back. I've seen some cars where the fenders don't seem to be filled by the rear tires, and that doesn't look so good to me. Would have to get more information on that and see pics.

The 390 or 428 would not be stroked, and I think a single 4bbl would be fine, like I said with the turkey pan. This isn't going to be a high RPM, race engine. If I lose some top end horsepower, I don't think that'd be a huge issue. And it'd be even more okay the first time my mom gets into the car and doesn't burn herself on the side pipes..

Missed the part about the hood scoop. That would free up your engine top end part options quite a bit. You don't need it with a Police Interceptor or Cobra Jet intake but it would free some space up for a one inch insulator under the carb which helps hot weather performance and starting and torque.

Don't completely rule out a stroker crank. I have no idea about Danbury but in the case of Keith Craft he seems more interested in installing a new crank rather than mess with finding a good old one, inspecting it, machining it for re-use, and reconditioning the rods. Once you go to a new crank you can basically go for any stoke you want. But there is undoubtably some additional cost buried in there. Thats why some guys can put together a nice, mildly built up and overhauled , stock crank 428 for $5 to 6k and the major FE builders are selling their 390/428 block motors with new crank, Chev rods, new pistons, custom cam and valvetrain, and lots of attention to assembly detail for more like $10 to $11K.

If you do go with a relatively stock 390 or 428, in which case you don't need to go to wild with the cam, the ERA undercar exhaust system may work fine and it would simplify things. Street428 built his ERA to a high degree of orginality right down to the 428 Police Interceptor motor with all correct parts and he says it performs very strong with the ERA exhaust. He would be a good person to contact as he had his car built as a painted, roller other than I believe he installed his engine and transmission himself. But beware, he's a slave to originality - no matter what the expense or effort.

If you get interested in ERA's optional rear suspension with outboard brakes, they don't recommend undercar exhaust. But, after a little study I think it would work if the loop in the tailpipes over the halfshafts were extended a little further up in the wheelwells.

Here is a good build site for an ERA very much like you are discussing. Chuck Brandt

Good luck

[BBQCYCLEWERKES]

I think FUNFER2 was referring to a 428 build in the $3,000 to $4,000 range if you already had the motor and was going to rebuild it. Machine work, cam, bearings, gasket kit, good oil pump, asemby etc would easily be in that range. To go out and first buy all the parts and then build would get you closer to the $6,000 to $7,000 range and it would be just about all stock which isn't so bad. I'm presently gathering all the good parts to build my 427 SO. I already had the block and rods already and I still spent about $6,000 for the good parts. I still have to then pay for the machine work and pistons since I'm using a A.M. 428 crank and I'm budgeting around $3200 for that with me doing the assembly work. I nice streetable 427 turning 5800 max RPM putting out approx 500 H.P. That should be more then enough for this old man. I bought some of the parts from Bret and I must say he is honest and fair on both his parts and complete engines. Good honest and trustworthy engine builders are not as common as they use to be. Just be careful in whoever to use to build your motor. A nice Cobra stuck in the gararge due to engine failure is no bargain at all. Just my opinion though.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by BBQCYCLEWERKES

Good honest and trustworthy engine builders are not as common as they use to be. Just be careful in whoever to use to build your motor.

Words of gold. Even more so with an FE, which has some peculiarities that have to be learned on "someone else's" build.

[FUNFER2]

[quote=BBQCYCLEWERKES;1156693]I think FUNFER2 was referring to a 428 build in the $3,000 to $4,000 range if you already had the motor and was going to rebuild it. Machine work, cam, bearings, gasket kit, good oil pump, asemby etc would easily be in that range.

Exactly. No racin motor. Find a good used one and put a rebuild kit in and maybe a larger cam in for the rumble. 3-4k.

[redmt]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

Hello Natalie,

a friend of mine built a Midstates/Shell Valley cobra with under the car exhaust. If you want me to contact him to get a hold of you, let me know.

I had a 428 FE in mine before the side oiler and really liked it. They are cheaper to build also. Getting say, 400 HP/TQ with not much in racing parts and a little machining is not a problem. You should be able to build one for $3,000-$4,000. I would spend more money and get the Cobra Jet heads, as the stock 428 heads need a lot of work.

Call someone like Keith Kraft or Barry that are great "FE" engine builders, they have some from stock to wild, at a good price, and will preform very well. Both also have entire motors for sale, and almost crate engines for cobras. The side oilers are expensive to build, but cool to have in a cobra.

What do you want out of a engine, mild to wild ?
How much can you spend ?

If you start out with a 390-428 and build a side oiler later, the motor mounts are the same for both engines.

Bob is selling his/this car at a fantastic price. It may be a great platform for you to build on. I believe he's only asking 20k.

[Flygirl]

Thanks for the link to Chuck Brandt's site. Believe it or not, I had actually already stumbled across it! I guess I am doing okay with the research, after all.

I need to keep the cost under control. I don't want this to become an obsession, just a good running car that's reasonably period correct.

So, as far as a potential new ERA goes: 428 CJ (or 427 center oiler, if that's an option not too expensive), five speed, just a few touches under the hood to get the look, either under car exhaust exiting in front of rear wheels or side pipes painted black so they begin to show discoloration and wear after a little while, (they're cheaper, too) vinyl seats. Standard paint so it's not too shiny and show car perfect. 15" pin-drive wheels.

Kind of an accurate but stripped down look. I'm not really into chrome everywhere and highly polished surfaces, except in a few key areas.

About the under car exhaust, as much as I want it sometimes I wonder if there's really room under the chassis.

A lot of the pics I see show the tubing and muffler clearly visible when the car is seen from the side. If it were concealed entirely, that'd be good. If that's not an option, I may go with the side pipes. In fact, I find myself leaning in that direction again.

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by Flygirl

A lot of the pics I see show the tubing and muffler clearly visible when the car is seen from the side. If it were concealed entirely, that'd be good. If that's not an option, I may go with the side pipes. In fact, I find myself leaning in that direction again.

That, in essence is what the Cobra was really about. Nothing you see on an authentic 427 Cobra is a styling exercise. It's all beautifully functional, and that's where a lot of replica manufacturers miss the mark (marque?).

The sidepipes were there simply because a suitably large diameter exhaust system would not fit under the car at the necessarily low ride height. The milder 428 powered street roadsters, even with the smaller diameter pipes, had an appetite for eating mufflers on driveways and uneven roads.

There are some undercar options available like flattened oval exhaust pipes and low profile mufflers - it's important to resist destroying the aesthetic beauty and balance by jacking up the ride height in the quest for additional ground clearance.

You're taking a very informed and well thought out approach, so no doubt you will end up with a Cobra that suits you perfectly.

[redmt]

Here are a couple pix of an original Cobra. This is the one that convinced me NOT to go with the side pipes. I really like the look, nice and clean

[redmt]

and another