Wilwood brake upgrade—desirable for street use?

[Flygirl]

Thanks again. I love this site and y'all's advice.

[FIA-ERA]

I want to use this as an opportunity to learn more about the FE engines and get that new experience.

Better get a some oil dry for the leaks. I know the feelings for a big block. I've always wanted one and now I have one with out a car for it to go in. I've got a 427 Tunnel port motor with no home, as of yet. In all respect a nice built 390 would be ALL you would need in one of these cars. I have a friends 67 GT500 here and it is just a handful even at a 3500lb car! I can't even imagine that "stock" 428 in a Cobra. It just wouldn't be useful.

The Front brakes are definitely off of a Camaro. Just look at the ERA website under parts needed. Link:http://www.erareplicas.com/freeman/427.pdf Page 22. Regards, Matt

[xb-60]

Camaro brakes....they're made by PBR in Australia

[strictlypersonl]

The standard calipers fit mid-70s Camaro. I doubt whether they were originally sourced from PBR. PBR stuff wasn't used on the Corvette until 1984.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Flygirl

Now...about that Subaru steering rack...!
:-)

You, nor most people, would want the Subaru steering gear with its 2.7 ratio in a big block car. The ERA steering gear, with its 3.1 turns, lock to lock, is a far better choice (it's what I have). It's built by Flaming River, as I recall, and, of course, slightly modified for a better fit. Top quality stuff.

[FIA-ERA]

You, nor most people, would want the Subaru steering gear with its 2.7 ratio in a big block car. The ERA steering gear, with its 3.1 turns, lock to lock, is a far better choice (it's what I have). It's built by Flaming River, as I recall, and, of course, slightly modified for a better fit. Top quality stuff.

Well, it's NOT what I wanted but it's what only fits in an "early" chassis like mine. I believe mine is a different ratio though 2.3, maybe? It's not bad to me or either I just don't know the difference in comparison. It's A LOT better than a 67 GT 500 with out power steering!! GEEZ! Not only does my car have a Subaru steering rack but it's also from one of the ugliest cars they ever made, the 'BRAT". But hey it works quite well! Kudos to ERA. Thanks Bob!

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by FIA-ERA

I believe mine is a different ratio though 2.3, maybe?

Perfect for Auto-X; not to mention beefing up those Ron Paul forearms. It occurred to me, though, that there is one street advantage of the ERA rear. The handbrake, after you spend some time with it, works very well. Much better than the Jaguar rear (at least as far as I have heard).

[D-CEL]

Flygirl,

I love.. BIG BRAKES AND I CAN NOT LIE!!

With that said:
The PBR caliper is a very good piece and a good choice for a Cobra. Simple, efficient, cost effective. They have very narrow out-board profile which makes it fit in almost every wheel of sufficient diameter. That’s why many OEMs used them. They were a significant improvement over the GM and Mustang II single calipers that preceded them. With braided lines, solid slider bushings and good pads, they offer excellent performance, honestly, more than most people can use on the street. Especially given the light weight of a Cobra, they will meet most owners needs.
The disadvantage of the PBR design became apparent on the race track with the Mustang, Camaro and Corvette guys of SCCA. The weight of the cars (3k lbs +) and higher HP (400+) numbers were more than the caliper could deal with. The lack of outboard mass heat soaks fairly quickly and its smaller (relative) surface area does not allow them to shed the heat, resulting in fade. The cure was to run a higher temp pad. The problems is high temp pads have poor “cold” performance the opposite of what a street car needs. So you had to switch pads before and after events. Kind of a pain because you have to remove the caliper to do it.
They also suffer from stiffness issues at extreme pedal pressure. The result is spongy pedal feel.

The advantages of a Wilwood (or any opposed piston caliper) are its mass, stiffness and the ease of pad replacement.

But again, in my opinion, if your not going to use the brakes that hard, their is no reason to worry about it bigger brakes now. and you can always upgrade them later if you feel the PBR’s aren’t doing it for you

On a side note, its dam cool that you want a Cobra.
Women in Cobras are just dam sexy!! I love it when my girl friend drives mine. I love to watch the men’s faces when she is behind the wheel! LOL. I wish you good luck in your search.


Jason

[Snakebit]

My sugestion, if you are looking to buy a used ERA, is to make a list of options you would like to have. Then start looking for a used ERA that comes close. After you drive the car and fall in love with it, you can make it your dream car by ordering the additional options you want from ERA.

[Grubby]

The ERA hand brake does work better than the Jag. My previous car had the standard rear. That is important on a car with manual trans.

John

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Grubby

The ERA hand brake does work better than the Jag. My previous car had the standard rear. That is important on a car with manual trans.

I have had to come to a stop in the Cobra, in traffic, mid way up a steep hill, with maybe six inches behind me and the moron in the next car. "Heel and toeing" the take off is one option, but having a hand brake that holds you while you ease off up the hill is easier. Now I don't have any personal experience with a Jag rear hand brake, but I think Chas has one.

[Rick Parker]

I am also at the crossroads of wanting to upgrade my brakes. I have slotted Granada rotors on the front with mid 70's GM non metric calipers and slotted Lincoln Versailles rotors with calipers from '88 Ford Turbo T-Bird which I understand are the same as those on a '93 Mustang Cobra. The front package is what I'd like to upgrade. With the Mustang II spindles, GM calipers and compilation of 6 pin 15" FIA knock off wheels with the adapters it makes for intersting conversation with the tech people at the brake vendors. For the time being if I could come up with a good solid 4 piston caliper with a suitable mounting bracket I would use the existing rotors and believe it would serve my needs. In the past I had considered the OEM calipers from a '66 Mustang GT but to my knowlege I would need to make my own brackets, but it is still an option.
Feedback from some sources indicate that some of the Wilwood calipers don't provide a rock solid feel. Maybe just a more aggresive pad with what I have would improve it too?

It's a jungle looking though this stuff.

Who out there has upgraded from the above (?), AND

which Wilwood Caliper is illustrated on the ERA Website?

[strictlypersonl]

we use various models of the Superlite series.

Since your suspension setup is completely Un-ERA, you should post your question in the All Cobra Talk section.

[Rick Parker]

I was attempting to gain some insight at to the specific caliper displayed in the upgrade section of your brakes. Sometimes it is easier to make sense with pictures. The rotor diameters are similar.
Thanks

[mreid]

Rick, your front set up with Mustang 2 spindles, 11" Granada rotors and GM single piston calipers has been used on tens of thousands of streerods, kit cars, and upgraded mustangs over the years. You might try calling one of the street rod vendors as I believe you can upgrade your existing spindles to a better rotor/caliper combo for a nice upgrade or replace the spindles with a newer design and bigger rotor/caliper combo for the ultimate upgrade. The two things you want to check carefully are fit within your existing wheels (you are limited somewhat by anything less than 17" wheels) and maintaining existing backspace. The last thing you want is a great brake upgrade that requires new wheels or you have the existing ones sticking out of the wheel wells like some off-road mess. Good luck!

[D-CEL]

Hey Rick,


I don’t know who your question was directed at but I will chime in.
You wrote: “Feedback from some sources indicate that some of the Wilwood calipers don't provide a rock solid feel.”
I hear a lot of things about Wilwood (usually that they forgot to put parts in the boxes!) but that is not one of them. All of the brake Mfg’s are doing an excellent job of making a rigid caliper these days. “Spongy” pedals are usually related to Factory rubber brake hoses and most often Air in the lines. I have on many occasions been called to “feel” pedals. Always a bleed issue.

Anyway, the parts on my car are:
Radial mount, Superlite 6R calipers with 12.75 dia x 1.25 thk rotors. I use 2.00 offset hats and forged Wilwood Mustang II hubs. And all of it fits inside a standard 15” Trigo wheel. You just have to measure and package correctly. The biggest issue is usually clearance on the tie-rod ends.

Jason

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by Flygirl

Just something about GM parts on the car. I've never been a huge GM fan, and there's just something not right about it, is all. I usually think of GM hardware as designed on the cheap and not particularly long lasting or pleasing in operation. When I think of flimsy, I just kind of naturally think of GM. I worry that those calipers just aren't meaty enough or well designed enough to give good pedal feel.

FG, I like you more and more all the time!

BTW, some of you guys keep saying things like "all you need." Since when did Cobras become an expression of mediocrity? Cobras have always been about excess. In fact you might say GLORIOUS excess! It seems to me (and correct me if I'm wrong here ma'am) but FG is looking for all of that excess within a subdued package so that it LOOKS like a vaguely menacing little British car.

Until she starts it up and the neighbor’s cat dies of heart failure.

Cat thing a little over the top?

Steve

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by lovehamr

Cat thing a little over the top?

Not in the least -- and that's coming from a true cat lover. However, FlyGirl has flown the coop. I think her infatuation with Cobras was merely a passing fancy.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Not in the least -- and that's coming from a true cat lover. However, FlyGirl has flown the coop. I think her infatuation with Cobras was merely a passing fancy.

What do you mean? It's only been a month since her last post.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

What do you mean? It's only been a month since her last post.

I think FlyGirl was really ERAChas in disguise. He was just playin' with us.