Wilwood brake upgrade—desirable for street use?

[tcrist]

I am running a complete Wilwood braking system all around including the master and adjustable bias valve. Mustang II front suspension setup.

The only thing in the system that is not Wilwood is the power brake booster and the pedal assembly. Four piston calipers all around.

The rear is an older setup with an external parking brake. It stops on a dime and will give you 9 cents change. Ok maybe 8 cents change but who worries about a penny anyway.

My only problem is that the brakes are so big that I cant run 15" wheels. 16" wheels only leaves me about a 1/4" gap between the rim and the caliper. As I cant find the tires that I want in 16" (I have a nice new set of 16" Compmotive wheels) I had to buy 17" wheels and tires.

Rick, If you want to check out what I have for brakes you can come on by and do that. Maybe you can help me with a few other issues that has come up.

Let me know and I can put her up on jack stands and remove the wheels.

[Tom Cimino]

Six years ago, I "upgraded" my front brakes from 11" Grenada rotors and Mustang II calipers to the Wilwood 140-2129-B front brakes with 10 3/4" rotors and Dynalite 4 piston calipers. They made no difference. I recently discovered that the piston area of the Dynalite calipers was actually less than the piston area of the Mustang II calipers. I'm now looking into upgrading to Wilwood 6 piston calipers. They make a caliper with the same mounting dimensions as the 4 piston dynalites and are supposed to be a direct replacement for the dynalite. I haven't decided if I'll change just the calipers and retain the 10 3/4" rotors, or go for the total new kit, which comes with 12.19" rotors. According to Wilwood, the kit fits in most 15" wheels and they have the dimensions in the assembly instructions so you can measure for clearance. By the way, The rear brakes are Lincoln MK VIII.

[D-CEL]

And that is the problem. People sell that fact that its an “upgrade” but with the same piston area and smaller rotor you gain virtually nothing.
I will tell you, if you offset the rotor and caliper inboard a couple of inches and use the narrow face SL6 you can run a bigger rotor on a 15 inch wheel.
I would use your Dynalites as the primary rear caliper and keep the hydo-mech factory caliper as the parking brake only.

Jason

[Eljaro]

I was able to fit 12.72" diameter and 1.25" thick rotors inside the 15" wheel.
The calipers are Wilwood SL6 with narrowed outboard body.
It is very tight inside the wheel since I even had to remove the balancing weights from inside the wheel because they were touching the calipers.
The limiting factor are the calipers , and the narrowed body SL6 were just right for this application.
Some calipers are just to big, so you have to go with a smaller disk if you want to keep the 15" wheel and its period correct looks.

[RICK LAKE]

Eljaro If you are running 13" rotors with 15" wheels you need to watch the rims and rubber from bad braking. I have seen major failures of over heated brakes blowing out tires. I hope you have either air ducts going to the front brakes or fans tubes blowing air in the tight area. The brake rotors can get to 1,300F degrees. Aluminum wheels and rubber DON'T like this kind of temp for long. If you have the holes in the nose, a couple of guys sell the OEM front brake ducts to blow air through the wheels and rotors. It is an easy assembly to do. Fits over front hole and uses 6 rivets and thin aluminum straps to hold in location per side. They are made of fiberglass. They have them for the rear brakes too. Rick L.

[Eljaro]

I have this cooling duct blowing air into the disc

[tcrist]

How close is your tie rod to your wheel? Looks too close to me but I guess as long as it does not touch it is ok.

[Eljaro]

The tie rods are very close. So close that I had to grind down the ball joint casing.
But they don not touch.

[Rick Parker]

Close only counts in Horse Shoes and Hand Grenades!

[Flygirl]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Not in the least -- and that's coming from a true cat lover. However, FlyGirl has flown the coop. I think her infatuation with Cobras was merely a passing fancy.

So quick to write me off, aren't you? And from a cat lover, too. What ever happened to giving folks the benefit of the doubt?

Originally Posted by patrickt

I think FlyGirl was really ERAChas in disguise. He was just playin' with us.

You may post your apology here, or PM me directly.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Flygirl

So quick to write me off, aren't you? What ever happened to giving folks the benefit of the doubt?

You may post your apology here, or PM me directly.

We've had literally thousands of people that showed up, showed keen interest, and then vanished without a trace. But, since you're back, and put a deposit down to get in the ERA line, then you certainly deserve the benefit of the doubt, along with an apology, which you may consider this to be.

[Flygirl]

Apology accepted.

Now, if we could do something about those two roll bars...
:-)

[Bobcat]

I know what to do with those two roll bars !! Anybody got a sawzall ? eek:

[Dangerous Doug]

Lots of answers here, but here's my $0.02...

I tried the Camaro brakes to start with. They are a single large piston and you push a lot of fluid to fill them up. That means a lot of pedal travel. I simply did not like that. Also, the pads have a funky fit to them: you have to bang the edge of the pad with a punch or chisel to deform them enough so that they don't rock between the pins. (No joke: this is out of the GM Manual for that year Chevrolet!).

I went with the SSBC calipers with steel braided lines. I love them. They have two, small pistons and you have much less pedal travel (instilling confidence you can actually slow down enough for the upcoming curve, stop sign, small child...). The other thing is that the pads fit correctly on the SSBC caliper, so no annoying "click...click...click..." that I got from the GM calipers.

I don't know about the Wilwood upgrade, but the SSBC's with the standard rotor (I assume the Wilwood upgrade requires a larger rotor?) worked well for me. May be a good compromise? I think I paid about $450 for the calipers. Do not recall what I paid for the stainless brake lines.

Okay, that's all I've got to say on this matter.
DD

[D-CEL]

(snicker, snort, straight face, keep a straight face!!...)
I do love her more and more each post LOL
That was an artfully delivered slap! Bravo! My dear, Bravo !!
Patrick says:
“since your back and put a deposit down you certainly deserve the benefit of the doubt” WTF? That was an apology? It’s a shallow and pathetic attempt to save face in public. (If I know Patrick, he probably sent her a PM with an actual apology.) But I digress..

Flygirl, Try not to take the words of Patrick too seriously (the rest of us sure don’t!)
Imagine a grumpy, mumbling, old man, shuffling along, snapping at all that walk past, having had far too much coffee…

Anyway, pedal travel is a function of M/C vs. Caliper piston volume. Lowering the caliper volume would yield less pedal travel among other things.

Interestingly, SSBC’s (Stainless Steel Brake Corp) first caliper of their own design was a better, two piston version of the GM sliding caliper, using the same mounts and spacing for use with factory rotors.

And No, Wilwood’s by design do not “require” a larger diameter rotor. They could be used with a stock size rotor if one desired it. The question would be why? If you’re going to the trouble of upgrading the calipers, why not change the rotor and hubs to much lighter and more serviceable units. Typically you can get an improvement in braking and save a considerable amount of rotating mass in the process by changing to Aluminum hubs and hats.

Jason

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by D-CEL

Imagine a grumpy, mumbling, old man, shuffling along, snapping at all that walk past, having had far too much coffee...

I agree on the coffee. In fact, I'm going to try and cut back on it after the new year.

[RodKnock]

Patrick after having his coffee:

[Dwzamberlan]

Having an issuse with one of the front rotor/hub of my ERA 427 (#106). Am using G.M. #334348 rotors with pin (6) drive knock-offs attached. They only have 6,000 miles on them and are original from 1985. Just replaced both master brake cylinders (Leaking), new calipers, new brake pads and repacked the bearings and put in new seals. The passenger side wheel/tire spin smoothly. The DRIVER SIDE wheel/tire spun half way around and then STOPPED. Looking at the outside brake pad, there where scratch marks on the metal concave section of the pad. There were also scratch marks on the HUB of the rotor. The old brake pad also had scratch marks in the same spot. THE HUB OF THE ROTOR IS OUT OF ROUND. NOT THE ROTOR, BUT THE HUB. Just about the time I got the car legal and on the road, I always had a shaking in the steering wheel at 60-75 MPH. Had tires/wheels high speed balanced, and wheel alignment. Still had the shaking of the steering wheel. If the HUB is 1/16 out of round, would that creat the shimmy? I have ground down the high spot, but do not think it will solve the problem. Would like to replace the rotor with something a grade higher than what I have on it now. Any suggestions?
Dennis Z.

[Eljaro]

if the hub is 1/16 out of round you have to remove it from the bearings and have it put on a lathe and turn it true. The hub may have the bearings wrongly mounted also, because I can not imagine it being manufactured so badly. Maybe bearings are not seated right or the hub got hit and bent.
I had once an issue with the front axle stub, which had the wrong bearings and was actually moving inside.

[jolsen42]

Sooo, what ever happened to "Fly Girl"?

John O