Wilwood brake upgrade—desirable for street use?
 

Just curious about the Wilwood brake upgrade offered by ERA. Going with the stock GM brakes seems like an okay option in theory, but...

There's just something about GM brakes up front that has me wondering a little bit.

My opinion on brakes is there's no such thing as too good.
Larry

X2 on the need for good brakes anywhere. I was out at the F1 qualifying yesterday here in AD and the braking on those cars is beyond imaginaton. As important if not more so than a fast motor. JMHO.

Flygirl,
For heavy duty use such as track time, brake selection is very important because the equipment will be subjected to high stresses, high temperatures and repeated rapid heat cycles. In addition, people who track their cars usually want to go as fast as possible and that calls for lighter weight brake components. .... BUT, you asked about brakes for street use. Unless an unnoticeable improvement in performance is important to you, all the brakes have to be able to do is lock the wheels when you press hard enough on the brake pedal. If the standard brakes can do that (and I suspect they can), they will do fine for street use. ... One other factor that is important to some drivers of street cars is brake dust. Some higher performing brake pads stop a little better, but produce more unsightly dust. You'll have to decide if that matters to you. ... Good luck.

I have the big brakes up front; you don't need them for the street. The reason I have them is that I have the ERA outboard braked rear, which uses larger brakes in the back. In order to get proper braking balance with the big brakes in the rear, you also need them up front. But, if your car is going to be a street car, you don't need the outboard braked rear in the back and you don't need the big brakes option up front either.

more important then being able to lock the brakes up is modulation or how they feel prior to lockup. bigger is always better imo. if they have the new zo6 carbon discs you're good though:3DSMILE:

A Point of Clarification...
 

My big brakes up front are the Sierras, not Wilwoods, but that was six years ago. Wilwoods are pretty much the same. See, the real problem is that once you start "upgrading" in one place it cascades down to other places. Getting the outboard braked rear, which has bigger brakes, makes you want to get the bigger brakes up front, which makes you want to get the six pin hubs, which you don't need either (and nobody can tell you even have them), and then you might as well throw in the extra venting in the wheel wells for it all.... But, if you're getting a used ERA, why are you spec'ing out stuff like this anyway? It's not like there's that much of a choice in used ERAs. You pretty much have to "take them as they come."

http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/d.../sierra001.jpg

Exactly correct. It's not a matter of being able to lock up the brakes, it's a matter of how hard you can use them w/o locking them up.
I like the idea on an ERA of the outboard rear brakes and the larger front brakes like patrickt has. If I were ordering, that's what I would buy.
Larry

The only down side to the outboard braked rear is that when you also have the fully functional handbrake the mechanism makes it very hard to get to the front universal joint for lubrication. Almost impossible, in fact. I put her away in her bag this weekend, but next spring, when she comes out, my first project on her will be to install a removable "trap door" on the passenger side of the tunnel so that all you do is remove the passenger seat, lift up the carpet, unscrew the trap door, and lube the front u-joint.

Natalie, if you want the full undercar exhaust, exiting at the rear, my understanding is that you will need to spec. the standard ERA rear suspension.
refer... 427 Frequently Asked Questions
If you want the outboard braked rear suspension and undercar exhaust, the exhaust will need to exit in front of the rear wheels.
Also checkout... Engine, transmission and brake stuff
Cheers,
Glen

The GM brakes were designed to stop a vehicle over 1,000 lbs. heavier than your cobra. For street use, they are almost overkill and an excellent brake package for your car. Also, brake components are available just about anywhere for very reasonable prices. I'm of the mindset that you select components based on your use. Based on your stated use, they will be perfect. Of course, we are VERY good at spending other people's money on this forum...

Flygirl,

I'd like to expand a little on the comments about the importance of brake feel (modulation) near lockup. An airplane I used to fly had a high landing speed (i.e., 130+ knots) and brakes without antilock. I used to teach my students that the technique for optimum wheel braking was to apply enough brake pressure to approach an insipient skid. In actual practice, it was virtually impossible to feel that. Similarly, it is very difficult for most people to feel when the tires of a car are just short of skidding. That is one reason antilock brakes stop shorter than most, but not all drivers using conventional brakes. I mention this because few drivers of street cars do optimum braking often enough to effectively make use of pedal feel to minimize their stopping distances.

But, if pedal feel during hard stops (or normal stops) is important to you, then the key is not the cost, size or weight of the brakes being used. The key to consistent, reliable brake feel is what is called compliance. It is an indication of how much the parts of the braking system flex or give during brake application. For example, a system with flimsy aluminum calipers and old rubber brake lines might have worse compliance than one with husky cast iron calipers and steel-braided brake lines. ... I am not familiar with the brake components you are comparing so I cannot offer an opinion as to whether one system is more compliant than the other. Perhaps a good approach in this case would be to ask people who have driven cars with both and see how they feel about their brakes.

I had my heart set on the ERA rear. It is just plain sexy. For that reason I upgraded 755 to the larger front brakes and ERA rear. I honestly couldn't feel any difference.

What I did notice is when I burnished the brakes it took 20 stops from 40 mph to get the brakes hot. Normally, 10 would do the job.

I had intended to build a ERA and had certain options that I really wanted. 755 came along with 800 miles and very similar to what I would have built. I estimate I saved nearly $10k, even after changing the rear and front brakes.

John.

Patrick,

I would love to see pictures when you get this project complete.

John

John, I agree there's no real difference on the street, peformance-wise, but if you switch your pads out to the softer Hawk pads I think you'll like the change. But I don't understand why she's asking these questions, unless it's just for intellectual curiosity. What is she going to say if a beautiful used ERA comes along at the right price? "Uh, sorry, but no... I had my heart set on the bigger brake package." Now if she's starting to think along the lines of taking a trip out to New Britain and spec'ing out her perfect car, then that's another story. If what she wants is a street car, then she should just pick a mechanically sound ERA that has options, that she can see, that she likes. The color of the damn paint is probably the most important thing on the whole car and we can't pick that for her. Of course, I recommend beige....

You don't even have to ask.:LOL:

Well, it's half intellectual exercise and half keeping my options open. Sure, if a great car comes along—a white street-style 427 with the rear bumper and front hoop, no roll bar or scoop or stripes or those two fans in front of the radiator, a relatively mild 428 without too much chrome running on CA pump gas in front of a five speed with a nice OD fifth gear, and undercar exhaust—then I won't care so much about the brakes.
:-)

A gal's got to dream, right?

Just something about GM parts on the car. I've never been a huge GM fan, and there's just something not right about it, is all. I usually think of GM hardware as designed on the cheap and not particularly long lasting or pleasing in operation.

I also agree with the observation about compliance. I think this is an issue of pedal feel as much as ultimate braking performance. When I think of flimsy, I just kind of naturally think of GM. I worry that those calipers just aren't meaty enough or well designed enough to give good pedal feel.

And yes, in my fantasy world the car would have undercar exhaust and the inboard rear brakes. Just 'cause I think it's sexy.

Perhaps because I own a Cobra replica with Corvette suspension and brakes, an old Corvette, a full size Dodge pickup and a Geo Tracker, I don't make blanket assumptions that all of Brand X is always better or worse than all of Brand Y. IMHO, each car or component should be evaluated based on its design, construction and intended use, not on a vague sense of brand loyalty. ... I can assure you that the GM produced Corvette brakes on my replica are not flimsy. They've hauled me down from 140 MPH more than a few times.

As mentioned before, these brakes are designed for 74 thru 81 Camaro's. These cars are A LOT heavier than the Cobra's and work very well for street applications. These are the same brakes we used on a 1980's Imsa Kelly Challenge car with race pads. If you can slide the car under full braking, you have more than enough brakes. I just found this out just the other day when someone pulled out right in front of me. Yes, the brake upgrade is nice and under certain circumstances is a must. But, it's nothing you will ever encounter on the street. My car brakes are very nice and it is well balanced. If anything I wish it had more rear brake BUT I like the way the ERA's package works. One thing you will find is that ERA's are very well sorted out. Their products work well and are engineered that way. I wouldn't worry so much about the Chevy aspect of it. The calipers are $35.00 all day long at any parts dept. and there is less moving parts to worry about! It has just one very large piston. Trust me it works!

If your concerned about the Chevy parts don't forget about the Subaru steering rack, Jaguar rear end, Volkswagen turn signal switch, Triumph steering column, Falcon shifter boot, MGB headlights, Corvette radiator, Corvette expansion tank(FIA), and etc. A Cobra has an incredible assortment of parts from all kinds of different manufactures even on the "originals". Are you sure a "FIA" wouldn't be better for you? :) Good luck with the search. Regards, Matt

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to insult GM. I knew as soon as I wrote that I shouldn't have. For the record, when I was growing up in the 60s and early 70s with all those different Fords, I envied GM styling and performance.

"Vague sense of brand loyalty" really puts it well.

I do like the simplicity and low cost, for sure. And honestly I didn't know the specific model of GM car from which these brakes were taken. I actually feel better about this now, with that new information.

Really, since the car will probably never see track time, I'm going to explore the limits with great care. In addition to all the other reasons, these cars don't seem like they'd be my preference if I had to be involved in a higher speed unintended off road excursion.

I do get the feeling that the ERA package is well thought out and have a level of trust regarding their parts choices. And I appreciate all the input, especially from those with these brakes on their cars.

Regarding the FIA, logically it might be a better choice for me. But I like the swoopy 427 SC body and have never owned a performance Ford big block (discounting my old '66 Continental convertible). I can't explain it logically, a very emotional decision. I've owned a number of 65-68 Mustangs; now I want to use this as an opportunity to learn more about the FE engines and get that new experience.

Now...about that Subaru steering rack...!
:-)

My information is that the 'standard' front brakes aren't GM brakes as such. They are manufactured in Australia by PBR and fitted to the higher performance Holden Commodores (and Ford Falcons) in Australia, and GM apparently regarded them to be good enough to import and fit to Corvettes. So, they aren't Corvette brakes, they are PBR brakes that are fitted to Corvettes. And , I believe, similar ones were fitted to Ford Mustang Cobras. All of these cars are significantly heavier than an ERA Cobra.
Also...I agree with Grubby's sentiment about how long brakes take to heat up. If a particular caliper is designed for extreme conditions (ie high speed, racing etc) on a heavy car, then it will take longer to heat up to operating temp on a lightweight car like a Cobra.
Cheers,
Glen

edit: nobody's picked me up on this yet....ideally the rotors heat up, not so much the calipers!