Motor installation angle in chassis?

[DanEC]

Has anyone with a 427 model and FE motor checked how the engine sits in the chassis? Assuming the chassis is sitting exactly level front to rear, is the engine - as measured by the surface of the valve covers - also sitting level front to rear? It looks like the dual carbs sit at around 5 deg sloping to the front if the engine is level.

[frdfver]

With car at ride height (angle) however you have it or like it the carb mount surface should be level which will put the engine- valve covers at a slight angle to the rear....

Paul.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by DanEC

It looks like the dual carbs sit at around 5 deg sloping to the front if the engine is level.

Dan that's how my Hurricane is. The valve covers are level front to rear (which means the engine is perfectly level) which leaves the canted FE intake with a slight slope forward.

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

Dan that's how my Hurricane is. The valve covers are level front to rear (which means the engine is perfectly level) which leaves the canted FE intake with a slight slope forward.

That's what I'm anticipating for my ERA but thought I would check. I mounted my undercar header/collectors on the motor and the fairly long section of 2-1/2 inch collector pipe that runs back under the floor boards appears to run parallel with the motor surfaces (top of valve covers, block surface, etc). So, I'm hoping the motor sits level and the pipes aren't angling down towards the floor. I have to weld some alignment tabs on the two piece header assemblies and I'm wondering if it might be safe to do so before mounting the motor in the chassis.

I'm kind of in between phases of my project and you can tell I have some idle time on my hands.

[strictlypersonl]

The engine/transmission angle should be about 1.5 degrees. Some intake manifolds have more tilt than others, but a few degrees tilt forward is generally tolerable. Just adjust the float levels to compensate. Note that under acceleration, the effective tilt is about 30 degrees in the other direction!

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by strictlypersonl

The engine/transmission angle should be about 1.5 degrees. Some intake manifolds have more tilt than others, but a few degrees tilt forward is generally tolerable. Just adjust the float levels to compensate. Note that under acceleration, the effective tilt is about 30 degrees in the other direction!

Thanks Bob. I suspected it didn't mount dead level for the benefit of the U-joints.

Does ERA wait to weld the header tabs on until after the engine has been installed? They seem to mock up pretty tight, true and even side to side w/o much play. I would like to go ahead and send my off for coating but I haven't installed the engine yet.

Also, sent you an email with a question on the header tabs.

I'll remember about the 30 deg tilt under acceleration.

Dan

[strictlypersonl]

Before we made an assembly jig on our layout table, we always welded the tabs on with the engine and trans installed in the chassis.

The missing tabs went out yesterday.

[DanEC]

Thanks Bob

[SuperHart]

If my understanding is correct, the FE intake manifolds have a built-in "power angle" of 4 degrees to allow for the downward slope of the rear of the motor. This was done originally in production autos to help make the transmission tunnel smaller. The power angle also therefore allowed the carbs to sit level while the engine sloped downwards. In the Cobra, if you installed the engine and tranny with the 4 degree slope, the rear of the tranny would nearly drag on the ground. Therefore, Shelby installed the engine/tranny assembly nearly level. In order to correct the 4 degree power angle built into the carb mounting pads on the intake, he commonly used marine wedge spacers in the reverse position to correct the 4 degree slope. Marine engines use these spacers for the same reason. I do believe these wedged spacers are still available from marine suppliers who deal in marine V-8 application parts. Moroso also makes one, part #65030 for about $42 each.

[strictlypersonl]

The only pictures of the original engines that I have don't show a spacer, and the air cleaners have a noticeable tilt toward the front. It's quite possible that some carb wedges were installed by owners, or maybe only some original cars had them. Consistent mechanicals were not a Shelby strong point.

[Cobra #3170]

Originally Posted by strictlypersonl

The only pictures of the original engines that I have don't show a spacer, and the air cleaners have a noticeable tilt toward the front. It's quite possible that some carb wedges were installed by owners, or maybe only some original cars had them. Consistent mechanicals were not a Shelby strong point.

My car came with the spacers installed as described, all the cars that I saw at that time (3100 series and later S/C's with medium risers also had the spacers).
I am not sure about 3200 and 3300 cars with 428's and some 427's. I ran without them on my tunnel port with single plane dual 4 manifold because of clearance issues with the hood. They seemed OK with adjustment of the float level, but I always ran 4-4.5 flats low anyway to avoid stumble and flooding during acceleration, braking and cornering.

[CSX3183]

My car came with the spacer also, and every 427 dual carb Cobra I've seen also had them. I have at least one set of Moroso carb spacers, I'd be willing to sell, let me know.

[DanEC]

Man - now carb wedgies! Something more to look into.

[mickmate]

Good observation. I think the heads and manifold do sit pretty level with a 2.5 deg angle at the crank/driveline in an original. The wedge spacers are still readily available if they'll fit under your hood. Moroso 65030 - Moroso Carburetor Wedge Plates - Overview - SummitRacing.com

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by mickmate

Good observation. I think the heads and manifold do sit pretty level with a 2.5 deg angle at the crank/driveline in an original. The wedge spacers are still readily available if they'll fit under your hood. Moroso 65030 - Moroso Carburetor Wedge Plates - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Mickmate - thanks. Wow - .83 inches at the thickest side. I'm not sure I will have enough room under my smooth hood for those. Another gasket in the mix would increase that some more. Guess I'll wait on those until I see how much room I have.

Dan

[mickmate]

As some of the lads point out the angle is deliberate in some performance/drag racing applications to have the effect of leveling the carbs under acceleration. I have seen dual quad originals with no spacer on the front and wedge spacer on the rear tilting it forward rather than leveling it.

[DanEC]

After installing my motor and transmission it appears I ended up with about 3 degrees of carb tilt (carbs tilt towards front). The wedge spacers I'm finding are made with 5 and 8 deg correction - which is just going to leave me in the same position or worse, except leaning in the opposite direction.

Just for grins I went over and put my angle finder on the air cleaner of my 67 Plymouth GTX - wouldn't you know it - dead flat.

Anyone see 3 degrees posing any problem with getting Holleys set up to run OK on the street? I'm thinking not and that a forward lean is a better compromise than a rearward lean.

Dan

[patrickt]

That doesn't sound right... but I don't own an angle gauge. Here's a shot of mine, though. You can see the air cleaner and compare it with the valve covers and compare all of that with the fenders.

[ERA Chas]

Stay as you are Dan and don't over worry it.
Zero problems:

[patrickt]

Perfect shot. Dang, Chas... you're more help now than you've ever been.