ERA standard Camaro brakes - no "tick"?

[lippy]

For the folks that use the standard front Camaro brakes for their ERAs, has anyone successfully eliminated the "ticking" noise by bending the pad tabs? Some of the threads I've read suggest the problem can't be fully fixed, so I want to see if anyone has actually fixed it. Thanks.

[DanEC]

Good question - I suspect some of the variations in success stems from the difficulty in actually bending the tab sufficiently due to it's thickness.

[patrickt]

ERAChas knows the answer to this one -- I remember a dialog he had with Bob P. on this very subject, and I recall he was successful at whatever it was that he did. I have the Sierras up front, so I can't help....

[Grubby]

My first ERA had the standard brakes. I used the blue anti squeak stuff on the pads. I picked it up at the local parts store. They made no noise.

That brake setup has been used on millions of GM cars. There is no magic in making them quiet.

I have owned many Camaro's, Monte Carlo's and other Chevys with that setup. It is a good design.

John

[ERA Chas]

My solution to the Camaro brakes was to put larger Wilwoods on after I added 150HP.
Bob P. knows the fix for the noise.

More importantly Jeff-why cheaping-out on 11", single piston brakes when you've ordered a 'cyclotron' powerhouse motor with so much fuss??

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

My solution to the Camaro brakes was to put larger Wilwoods on after I added 150HP.
Bob P. knows the fix for the noise.

More importantly Jeff-why cheaping-out on 11", single piston brakes when you've ordered a 'cyclotron' powerhouse motor with so much fuss??

Well, that's one way to deal with squeaky brakes. I've got to agree on the single piston/cyclotron statement. I think being able to slow down in these cars is more important than being able to speed up.

[kevins2]

I couldn't bend the tabs sufficiently to get a tight fit so I actually placed the pad on a block of wood and used a hammer to bend the tabs until I got a nice tight fit. Won't know if that eliminated any noise until I get it on the road, but it worked to get a nice fit of that outer pad. If there is a better solution, I'd like to hear about it.

Regards,

Kevin

[lippy]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Jeff-why cheaping-out on 11", single piston brakes when you've ordered a 'cyclotron' powerhouse motor with so much fuss??

I like that Cyclotron description. I hope it revs better than one.

That's a great question. I've done a fair amount of work on this (also, see Standard or Wilwood brakes on an ERA?). I'm just not convinced that the braking or feel from the Wilwoods is better than the standard set-up for street driving. Several people have told me from experience that I wouldn't feel the difference unless I cycled through repeated hard stops at a track. I think ERA is no longer using the Wilwoods anyway, and now use Sierra or Coleman. Not that psyched on those. So if I've concluded there may be no real benefit for me, then I'll probably go with the Camaro brakes (or maybe SSBC calipers as an upgrade).

[Dangerous Doug]

I actually spoke with a GM mechanic on this one. He told me that right in their factory repair/maintenance manuals is says to deform the pad tabs with a punch to close the gap between the pad tab and the pins.

If you do nothing at all you get a very audible click. I was able to deform the tabs sufficiently to make the click a whole lot quieter. However, even the attenuated clicking bugged me, so I upgraded to some SSBC calipers.

The other problem with the Camaro brakes is that they have a single, large piston that takes a lot of fluid to fill up when you brake, which means a lot of pedal travel when you brake, not to mention a loss of hydraulic clamping power against those pads onto the rotors (accompanied by a high level of anxious uncertainty in the driver...).

In the end, I simply did not like the Camaro calipers. I shopped around, looked at the Wilwoods, but the SSBC's came highly recommended. They sport two smaller pistons and have much less associated pedal travel and a firmer, more powerful brake feel. Gone is the anxious uncertainty.

My advice is to not waste your time and energy on the Camaro brakes. If you need to trim the budget, take it out of your lunch money, not the braking system.

Cheers,
Dangerous Doug

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Dangerous Doug

My advice is to not waste your time and energy on the Camaro brakes. If you need to trim the budget, take it out of your lunch money, not the braking system.

I think that really is good advice - especially if you have any intention of "high spirited" street driving. One theory on budget trimming is to forego the items that can be added without replacing an existing part. Meaning, hold off on the top and side curtains and use that money to pay for the better brake system now, instead of having to buy a second set of calipers later (and then selling the old crap on ebay). You can always buy stuff like a top and side curtains later -- and you might find you never even buy them because you don't need them. I don't think Chas ever bothered to get them during the 20+ years he had his ERA.

[ERA Chas]

Unless you've driven cars with both types, you have no clue.
You've reached a wrong conclusion about Wilwoods, Sierras and Colemans. Based on what experience are you being 'psyched' on?
I've street driven my car extensively and most trips included 120MPH blasts and stops. Not to mention track use. You can never have too much brake. Your street driving will be always be 60MPH? And the big brake option is an extravagance when you're spending $60K??
Your car isn't even delivered yet and you're making judgements on performance items. If your usage is truly street biased, why are you specing 600HP??
I built and rebuilt my car 2 1/2 times over 27 YEARS of ownership of the same car. Tried every iteration and improvement ERA and the aftermarket provided-and 'tested' them all-every time out in the car.
The small brake is fine for a soft 302 car. There's no excuse against big brake for an engine combination as you want-regardless of usage.
And when it's time to move on and sell, buyers don't flock to a Camaro-brake ERA with a 'big' motor. You're putting a crimp in your value content.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I don't think Chas ever bothered to get them during the 20+ years he had his ERA.

Largely correct. I had the wind wings for about 2 weeks in the 80's and removed them when I found them useless.

[lippy]

I meant I'm not that psyched on the Sierras and Colemans vs Wilwoods. Still considering the big brakes though, esp if I can get Willwoods.

[Dangerous Doug]

Originally Posted by patrickt

instead of having to buy a second set of calipers later (and then selling the old crap on ebay).

For perspective, I listed my Camaro calipers on craigslist, and got only one bite and that buyer flaked (welcome to Craigslist...). I ended up giving them away just to get them out of my garage---and I had to throw in some caliper paint.

Yeah, go lean on the stuff you can buy later (soft top, tonneau, fuzzy dice...). The "core" stuff is where you want to lay out the cash.

But, again, I had the Camaro brakes with my 302-based 289 FIA (uh, not a "soft" 302, but a 302 nonetheless...). I REALLY HATED THE CAMARO BRAKES. You may not need the Wilwoods (how expensive is this option?). My SSBC's were about $400 at the time---note that this is for the calipers only, which are used on the standard sized rotors.

Oh, also, upgrade to braided stainless steel brake lines to replace all rubber lines. Two in the front, and one that goes to the rear suspension. The ERA rear has braided steel lines with the Corvette brakes.

Take the upgrade price and divide it by $6. That's the cost of a grande' latte' and a scone at Starbucks. Then rationalize the upgrade by saying you'll forgo Starbuck's that many times. Works for me. But I can easily fool myself...

DD

[blykins]

Another vote for Wilwoods.

You will notice a difference between a single pot caliper and a 2, 3, or 4 piston caliper. You gotta watch on what diameter wheels you're going to go with though. Put a good street pad on them and you will reap the benefits of a larger caliper without having to heat cycle them.

[ERA Chas]

Just realized-in this thread:
ERA optional rear suspension strength?
-You have doubts about the strength of the available rears with a soild roller motor.
In THIS thread you convinced yourself that single-piston, small rotor brakes will be just fine for your use. Why ask about a tougher rear and then decide brakes are no big deal??
Jeff-you're confusing yourself and chasing your tail.
Tip: Brent's your engine builder right? First, get frank with yourself about how you're gonna use the car. Then seek and TAKE his advice about engine, clutch and trans selection.
Then call Doug at ERA and tell him what you're buying and get HIS advice about rears and brakes. Drop preconceived notions you might have-they're not based on Cobra experience.
Asking here without a clear vision is just confusing you.

[patrickt]

... and how could you not love these big fat Sierras?

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by patrickt

... and how could you not love these big fat Sierras?

Worn to toast from those 40MPH dashes to the dry cleaners....

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

toast ... dry cleaners....

Uhhh, "toast" would go with an eatery, but "threadbare" would have been more clever for the dry cleaners.

[lippy]

Chas, appreciate your input but not chasing my tail. I think it's probably pretty common to evaluate options and make changes until the car is fully built. I did in fact speak with Bob, Doug, and Peter, as well as others, and they consistently told me I would only feel the benefits of the big brakes on the track. This thread isn't about stopping power. It's about the "ticking" problem with the Camaro brakes. If I determine that this problem will be a constant pain, and I was borderline on the big brakes anyway, this may push me over. Make sense?