Best approach to bleeding the brakes

[DanEC]

Bleeding brakes is another job I've never learned to love. Messy and unpredictable. So, it's that time - to fill the system and bleed the brakes for the first time. Anyone got a particular method that has worked well for the first fill and bleed?

I have a Mytek vacuum pump, a V-90 pressure bleeder and a wife who is sometimes accommodating to pump the pedal. And of course there is also gravity bleeding.

Any recommendations to take the pain out of the process?

Thanks

[brandx]

After many years of having my wife pump the pedal i found a new method. I get a long piece of clear plastic tubing sized to keep a tight fit over the bleeder outlet on the disc. I then crack the bleeder valve just so there is a slight amount of pedal pressure. I run the tubing from the bleeder valve out over the top of the fender back to the resevior. That way I can watch the fluid and the amount of bubbles that is comming up the tube. When I get to the point of not seeing bubbles I tighten the valve so I get good pressure in the pedal. Has worked very well for me.

[r67cat]

Motive Power bleeder is all I use on any of my cars. Make it a very easy 1 person job with great results. Rick

[ERA2076]

Mighty Vac

[bingo2]

This, Brake Fluid Bleeder, is all I've used for several years; it works every time without spilling a drop. I can do an entire car in about 15 minutes.

[347stroker]

Check out the Phoenix Systems brake bleeder in the Summit catalog. It pushes brake fluid up from the bleed screw to the reservoir. You don't have to worry about it running out of fluid and sucking air as you are filling the reservoir. Works great!Tom

[YerDugliness]

This was the advice I was given when I posted a thread on rebuilding the brakes on my replica, worked VERY WELL for me, highly recommended! I did attach one end of a plastic tube to the bleeder valve and made sure there was enough brake fluid in a soda bottle to cover the other end, that to keep air from being sucked back up the tube into the caliper, then just did as suggested:

"As far as bleeding sequence , ERA uses the same sequence . You want to bleed the longest lines first and then go to the shorter ones . If your calipers have bleeders on the inside and the outside , bleed the inside one first and then go to the outside one , making sure the bleeder screws are vertical ."

Passenger side rear first, driver side rear next, passenger side front next, driver's side front last. I had a great assistant in the car, my S.O., who was great at following the directions! Hope you have as good luck as I did!

Cheers!

Dugly

[lippy]

In the past I've always used the two person method. It's a bit of a pain but how often do you bleed your brakes? I don't like tha vacuum devices because they tend to pull air around the screw threads. Pressure bleeders look like a good alternative. I spoke with Bob at ERA and he mentioned they usually use the gravity method. I've read this too can be a pain, but if it works it works well.

[tkb289]

I have used the same method as Dugly with good results.

For the collection of the old fluid, I use a clean plastic bottle that I tape to a piece of wood, then tape the clear hose to the bottle. This reduces the chance of the bottle being tipped over or the hose coming out, splattering brake fluid all over.

Be sure to keep an eye on the reservoir, if it runs dry you have to start over. Keep the lid on the brake fluid bottle after filling the reservoir, again it's easy to knock it over (and what a mess).

A good box end wrench is very helpful for opening and closing the bleed nipple, and don't forget the dust covers. Seems like getting things setup takes longer than the actual job.

[Jaydee]

Reminds me of a incident in the workshop. We had a pressure bleeder that screwed on top of the master cylinder. The hose burst and sprayed 3 brand new Volvos with brake fluid. All had to be resprayed.
Do you have to bleed the master if you use a vacuum bleeder? I've never used one, and it can be a pain to get the master to bleed from scratch when fitted to the vehicle without making a mess.
JD

[DanEC]

Sounds like the consensus is leaning a little more towards pressure bleeding. I have the Phoenix V-90 unit already. I've been wanting to get the Motive Pressure bleeder for my old cars but I don't think it would work on the girling fluid cans. I've had problems with vacuum bleeding and air leakin back around the bleeder screws too. I may start out gravity bleeding and then finish up with the Phoenix unit.

The plastic tube from the bleeder all the way back to the master fluid can is unique. Kind of like a large scale bench bleeder for master cylinders.

On pedal bleeding I'm curious - with the dual master cylinder set up, once the rear brakes are bleed and have a firm pedal, does that interfer with stroking the pedal to bleed the front circuit?

Thanks for all the input.

[patrickt]

Dan, I have tried every method suggested here, doing one-man bleeds since I was 16 years old, and I will tell you that, on the Cobra, nothing beats the plastic tube. It's a cinch and you can do it without any assistance and without spilling a drop.

[DonC]

I've been using a Gunson EZBleed for a number of years and have had really good luck with it.
Rather than use a spare tire for an air source I use my small carry tank and only have to use about 5 lbs. of pressure. Takes about 20 minutes to do the entire car, brakes and clutch, by myself.
DonC

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by DonC

...only have to use about 5 lbs. of pressure. Takes about 20 minutes to do the entire car, brakes and clutch, by myself.
DonC

I bet if you move the pressure up to 100 lbs. the job would only take 1 minute....

[lippy]

Originally Posted by YerDugliness

This was the advice I was given when I posted a thread on rebuilding the brakes on my replica, worked VERY WELL for me, highly recommended! I did attach one end of a plastic tube to the bleeder valve and made sure there was enough brake fluid in a soda bottle to cover the other end, that to keep air from being sucked back up the tube into the caliper, then just did as suggested:

"As far as bleeding sequence , ERA uses the same sequence . You want to bleed the longest lines first and then go to the shorter ones . If your calipers have bleeders on the inside and the outside , bleed the inside one first and then go to the outside one , making sure the bleeder screws are vertical ."

Passenger side rear first, driver side rear next, passenger side front next, driver's side front last. I had a great assistant in the car, my S.O., who was great at following the directions! Hope you have as good luck as I did!

Cheers!

Dugly

I'm not following this. Ok, so you attach a clear tube from the bleed screw to a soda bottle partially filled with brake fluid. Then you open the bleeder screw a bit. Then don't you need someone to pump the brakes while you open and close the bleeder screw so the system draws fluid from the reservoir? I'm not understanding how Patrick and others describe a one-man process that just uses a tube.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by lippy

I'm not following this. Ok, so you attach a clear tube from the bleed screw to a soda bottle partially filled with brake fluid. Then you open the bleeder screw a bit. Then don't you need someone to pump the brakes while you open and close the bleeder screw so the system draws fluid from the reservoir? I'm not understanding how Patrick and others describe a one-man process that just uses a tube.

1) Put the surgical tubing on the bleeder screw, put the other end in to the mayonnaise jar. Fill the mayonnaise jar with just enough fluid to cover the bottom of the hose.

2) Fill reservoir with fresh fluid and crack bleeder screw.

3) Pump brakes several times. Inspect level of fluid in reservoir. Inspect fluid in mayonnaise jar and in the surgical tubing.

4) Keep pumping until the fresh fluid (using a different color fluid helps) is through the system and clearly visible in the surgical tubing. Your mayonnaise jar will be filling up, so you know you've done it correctly.

5) There will be no air in the system because any vacuum will just draw fluid back in to the system (not air). If you see air bubbles clinging to the side of the tube, plick them with your finger so they get pushed through to the mayonnaise jar. The tubing should be completely full of fluid with no air bubbles present.

6) Tighten the bleeder screw and pull the surgical tubing off it. Hold the tubing upright and it will drain in to the mayonnaise jar (remember, it is full of fluid).

7) This is a virtually fool-proof method of bleeding your brakes, and you can take your time, get distracted, and wander off, and it will still work perfectly.

[lippy]

Thanks Patrick. I would have thought this method would just pull fluid in and out of the mayo jar without drawing it through the system, but I must be wrong.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by lippy

Thanks Patrick. I would have thought this method would just pull fluid in and out of the mayo jar without drawing it through the system, but I must be wrong.

No. When you take your foot off the pedal, it will suck the fluid in from the reservoir easier than it will suck it back through the surgical tubing. Just keep an eye on the level in the reservoir -- it goes down faster than you think.

[bret a ewing]

I can even expand on that.............

I use ATE Super Blue and Amber Dot 4 Brake fluid. Every flush changing colors so I know it is complete.

* 4 jack-stands all 4 wheels off.
* Draw out as much old brake fluid out of the resevoir with a large hypodermic needle and flexible tubing.

* Refill with brake fluid - see above.

* I use a brake bleed bottle with thinwall (so a closed end wrench will fit over tubing and onto the bleeder) flexible tubing. The bottle has a lanyard and a strong magnet attached to it, that way you can hang the bottle in virtually any area for convience.

Brake bleeding bottles with magnet - Bing Images

* 1/3 to 1/4 turn is typically all you need, the CE wrench (or brake wrench if you want to purchase -usually 8- 10 mm) stays on the valve....no slips.

* 2 people, start with the furthest distance from the master cylinder and coordinate the bleed, do not rapidly pump the pedal, smooth is best.

* When the fluid changes color and stabilizes move to the next furthest wheel.

* Naturally check the master cylinder every 1/3 bottle of fluid draw and MAKE SURE the bail is on the MC or the cap is screwed down tight...........forgot once, huge mess, never forgot again.

Thats it, you should have great results and minimal mess.

[DanEC]

The thing is I think the above procedures Patrick and Bret are discussing are fine for an existing, air free system and flushing out old fluid with new. But, I question that it will work that well on an empty system filled with a lot of air. There is so much air coming through the system and in the plastic tube, that if you don't shut off the bleeder at the bottom of each stroke of the pedal, it draws air back in from the tube (not to mention from around the bleeder screw itself).

I think to get a new, empty, air-filled system filled and bled the first time, that either the Phoenix system of pressure bleeding from the brake or the good old -stroke pedal down and hold -open bleeder - shut bleeder - release pedal - stroke pedal and hold - open bleeder - etc, etc are going to work more reliably.

The Motive Bleeder system to pressure bleed from the top is a highly recommended system but I just don't think it's compatible with the little Girling brake fluid cans.

But I appreciate all the input.