Warning: New Guy Content

[willtwallace]

is un-sprung weight the only benefit of inboard brakes?

Am i correct in assuming the rear rim width can be wider also?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by willtwallace

is un-sprung weight the only benefit of inboard brakes?

Am i correct in assuming the rear rim width can be wider also?

No, there are no advantages of the inboard brakes at all. Unsprung weight with the outboard rear is the same. Rear view of rear suspension.

[Dimis]

Welcome,
Nothing makes us happier than spending other peoples money.

Originally Posted by patrickt

Here's what you need to do: Send Peter a check for five grand, or ten grand, whatever it is now to get your name in to their waiting line of customers,.... But that's the first step, and you can't go wrong with it.

To the uninitiated this ^ sounds like a right royal scam, akin to some Nigerian Prince and/or bank email.
BUT rest assured, Patrick's words are echoed by all ERA owners/builders that I've heard from.

Some further advise that Patrick has recommended to others in the past (and I agree with) is to put your money in things that can't easily be changed/upgraded after the fact.

ie: Vinyl vs leather seats, carpets etc as mentioned earlier can easily be "upgraded" and "updated" at a later stage in life. BUT stripping a car to powder-coat the chassis retrospectively, while possible, is just NOT going to happen if we're honest.


Best of luck with it all.

[willtwallace]

Originally Posted by patrickt

No, there are no advantages of the inboard brakes at all. Unsprung weight with the outboard rear is the same. Rear view of rear suspension.

yup, read that; was just checking the real world.

[willtwallace]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Welcome,
Nothing makes us happier than spending other peoples money.

To the uninitiated this ^ sounds like a right royal scam, akin to some Nigerian Prince and/or bank email.
BUT rest assured, Patrick's words are echoed by all ERA owners/builders that I've heard from.

Some further advise that Patrick has recommended to others in the past (and I agree with) is to put your money in things that can't easily be changed/upgraded after the fact.

ie: Vinyl vs leather seats, carpets etc as mentioned earlier can easily be "upgraded" and "updated" at a later stage in life. BUT stripping a car to powder-coat the chassis retrospectively, while possible, is just NOT going to happen if we're honest.


Best of luck with it all.

spoke with Peter today.....

[66gtk]

Might be some advantages with the inboard system if under car exhaust is part of the consideration? Are you looking to build a street car or an S/C or something else...?

[lippy]

Peter did a "partial bonding" option for me. I had his painter - Connecticut Custom - do the paintwork. They have a lot of experience on ERAs and did a nice job. Then ERA bonded and riveted just the body to the frame, and I had to bond and rivet the footboxes and panels. It was pretty straightforward and enjoyable (my kids did a lot of the riveting with a pneumatic gun), I didn't run the risk of mounting a painted body, and I saved significant money over the "full bonding" option. You may want to speak with Peter about this.

On the rear, I chose the "standard" option with the inboard brakes. It's a nice piece and I would do it again the same way.

Check out my build thread: Lippy's ERA #797 build log. There are a lot of details. PM me if you'd like to chat about it.

[willtwallace]

Originally Posted by 66gtk

Might be some advantages with the inboard system if under car exhaust is part of the consideration? Are you looking to build a street car or an S/C or something else...?

side exhaust is my preference.

mainly street. If it was going to be a track car, i would not put this much thought into it. A race car for me means, Body, motor, brakes, keep it primer coated, the end. put the rest of the money in tires, race gas, travel expenses, and consumables.

I race my motorcycle, and its just 10 races per year in the south east, and it can get crazy expensive. i don't need another track anything. this baby will be a pull out wax, check weather, smile, wax again, check weather one more time, smile, grab the wife and go act like teenagers.

i basically want my dream muscle car to be well built, look great, have too much power for a street car (which in actuality can be more correct for the race track than street).

to me a compliment would be, "that car is too loud" or "that motor is too big"
unless its coming from the DMV or a police officer

[willtwallace]

Originally Posted by lippy

Peter did a "partial bonding" option for me. I had his painter - Connecticut Custom - do the paintwork. They have a lot of experience on ERAs and did a nice job. Then ERA bonded and riveted just the body to the frame, and I had to bond and rivet the footboxes and panels. It was pretty straightforward and enjoyable (my kids did a lot of the riveting with a pneumatic gun), I didn't run the risk of mounting a painted body, and I saved significant money over the "full bonding" option. You may want to speak with Peter about this.

On the rear, I chose the "standard" option with the inboard brakes. It's a nice piece and I would do it again the same way.

Check out my build thread: Lippy's ERA #797 build log. There are a lot of details. PM me if you'd like to chat about it.

Thank you sir.

I will DEFINITELY speak with him about that option when the time comes. As for the rear suspension, i agree. i have changed many, many sets of inboard brake pads. its not as easy as the outboard, but not a show stopper either. this toy will most likely need them one every two years max. BUT, the 50lb weight savings.....eh...undecided as of now. front and rear suspension is a phase 3 decision.

My plan is to have ERA's guys paint it also, i think that's just a smart move. That will give me a chassis to wax for a year

Thanks again for the partial bonding advice. Those funds can go toward paint!

[patrickt]

The ERA outboard rear is only $700 more than the standard rear, according to that price sheet I posted a few pages back. BUT, and I don't remember the answer to this question from previous threads like this: Does going with the outboard rear trigger additional costs?

Take it from me, the ERA outboard rear is, without a doubt, the coolest single upgrade available from any of the Cobra manufacturers anywhere. No, unless you're heavy duty racing, you probably won't notice any performance increase -- certainly not on the street anyway. And, unless you do a lot of really hard braking, you're probably never going to have to change the rear Jag inboard pads anyway. But, the coolness of the ERA rear really is worth the extra $700. Unless... does the ERA rear trigger the bigger brakes on the back, which then triggers the bigger brakes up front? If so, that's a nice chunk of dough right there. While I put all that stuff on my car, the costs to do so are not cheap, and they really aren't that necessary (for most of us). I know we've had this discussion before but I don't remember what, if any, additional costs come along with that $700 upgrade. If it's just $700 (and only $700), then it really is money well spent.

[willtwallace]

Originally Posted by patrickt;1****33

The ERA outboard rear is only $700 more than the standard rear, according to that price sheet I posted a few pages back. BUT, and I don't remember the answer to this question from previous threads like this: Does going with the outboard rear trigger additional costs?

Take it from me, the ERA outboard rear is, without a doubt, the coolest single upgrade available from any of the Cobra manufacturers anywhere. No, unless you're heavy duty racing, you probably won't notice any performance increase -- certainly not on the street anyway. And, unless you do a lot of really hard braking, you're probably never going to have to change the rear Jag inboard pads anyway. But, the coolness of the ERA rear really is worth the extra $700. Unless... does the ERA rear trigger the bigger brakes on the back, which then triggers the bigger brakes up front? If so, that's a nice chunk of dough right there. While I put all that stuff on my car, the costs to do so are not cheap, and they really aren't that necessary (for most of us). I know we've had this discussion before but I don't remember what, if any, additional costs come along with that $700 upgrade. If it's just $700 (and only $700), then it really is money well spent.

noted; added to my ever growing "possibly do" list.

thank you

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by willtwallace;1****34

noted; added to my ever growing "possibly do" list.

thank you

Prioritization makes sense. There are many things in life that should be handled through an A-B-C (A = Need to have, B = Should have, C = Nice to have / optional) model, and building a car certainly works with that model.

[bret a ewing]

ERA's are top notch. Get as close to a painted roller as your budget will allow. This will minimize your frustration to help realize your dream in a timely mannor.

There will still be plenty of work left for you to complete the project.

Good luck!!

Bret.

PS: Tell Peter "Merry Christmas" from the boys at CC!!!

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55;1****40

Prioritization makes sense...

Really, I think what most of us were looking for was "the Cobra experience." It is a very definite and real thing, and it involves all of the senses. When you sit in, look about, and drive a really nice Cobra, it affects all of your senses. It does not have to drive incredibly fast, corner at +1G, or do the quarter in low 11's. But, it has to smell right, it has to sound right, it has to look right from outside the car, but more importantly, it has to look right from inside the car, and it has to feel right not only when you're stomping on it, but, just as important, when you're driving slowly. The particular smell of leather/gas/oil is so particular to my car that my kids, when they would sit on my lap after a drive, would sniff me and say "you smell like Cobra." The sound of the engine is something I have written about a million times, so I won't do it again -- but it's incredibly important. I think if you concentrate on the parts that will directly affect your senses, you'll make choices that will make you happy in the long run. The outboard rear, big brakes, quick release hubs are, for the most part, not going to directly affect the senses. If I were doing it again, and trying to shave costs, that's the way I would approach it.

[willtwallace]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55;1****40

Prioritization makes sense. There are many things in life that should be handled through an A-B-C (A = Need to have, B = Should have, C = Nice to have / optional) model, and building a car certainly works with that model.

i concur.

Originally Posted by bret a ewing;1****47

ERA's are top notch. Get as close to a painted roller as your budget will allow. This will minimize your frustration to help realize your dream in a timely mannor.

There will still be plenty of work left for you to complete the project.

Good luck!!

Bret.

PS: Tell Peter "Merry Christmas" from the boys at CC!!!

Yes, that's the plan. My minimal goal is base package, painted, with all steering components intact (steering wheel & linkage). for me that will be a realistic great start. With the paint being the most important.

Originally Posted by patrickt;1****48

Really, I think what most of us were looking for was "the Cobra experience." It is a very definite and real thing, and it involves all of the senses. When you sit in, look about, and drive a really nice Cobra, it affects all of your senses. It does not have to drive incredibly fast, corner at +1G, or do the quarter in low 11's. But, it has to smell right, it has to sound right, it has to look right from outside the car, but more importantly, it has to look right from inside the car, and it has to feel right not only when you're stomping on it, but, just as important, when you're driving slowly. The particular smell of leather/gas/oil is so particular to my car that my kids, when they would sit on my lap after a drive, would sniff me and say "you smell like Cobra." The sound of the engine is something I have written about a million times, so I won't do it again -- but it's incredibly important. I think if you concentrate on the parts that will directly affect your senses, you'll make choices that will make you happy in the long run. The outboard rear, big brakes, quick release hubs are, for the most part, not going to directly affect the senses. If I were doing it again, and trying to shave costs, that's the way I would approach it.

patrickt, you are spot on. I want the 427 Cobra experience. As with most "experiences" they can be universal, but also individual. Either way, both are conceptualized in our minds, and are themselves based on prior experiences. For me a car of this caliber should be a visceral experience. For me, that means void of a stereo, void of AC, Void of excessive carpet and sound deadening materials. Having said that, it should be mechanically sound.

For me, i love the smell of a motor as it comes to life. I know the distinctive sound my Bosch starter makes when starting mu current inline 6. i love the smell of a fuel mixture thats a little rich. i love the vibration of a motor mount that is mounted to mounts that are not designed to remove all harmonic vibrations. I love the sound that comes from an intake that in not built and designed to remove all sound.

In my current toy (E36 M, 95), i have removed all the sound deadening material from the floor and doors. Basically, because i love the distinctive whine of the walbro 400, when i turn the key from position 1 to 2. i like the original minimalist build of ALL sports cars that were made 10 - 15 years ago. i.e. For me...Vinyl seats, motor, 3 pedals, sunglasses and jeans. Sports car used to be synonymous with uncomfortable.

Some of these "feelings" even have a practical use. Like many others, i find it strange when another sports or sporty car owner say, i didn't even know my fuel pump was bad. i always think, wow, thats part of my pre-start up checks, the whine of the pump. If its not there, guess what....Houston we have a problem. Like when you hear of people who leave the grocery store and walk to their car and drive away and get to the stop light and realize their tire was flat. I'm like, WHAT!?!?....who doesn't do a visual when they walk up to their care. Who cant feel the vibration, who cant see the imbalance of the chassis???? But these are probably traits that are shared by guys and girls like us.

However, i intentionally prefaced all of my comments with "for me", because this is William's individual feel.

Lastly, i also like the smell of leather.

[razerwire]

Patrickt when you say no advantages of inboard brakes you mean in the case of ERA I assume. To willtwallace the fact that ERA has been in business so long is a testimony in-itself, along with long wait list.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by razerwire;1****75

Patrickt when you say no advantages of inboard brakes you mean in the case of ERA I assume. To willtwallace the fact that ERA has been in business so long is a testimony in-itself, along with long wait list.

When I write "no advantage to inboard brakes" I say that because the configuration of the ERA outboard rear, as compared to the standard Jaguar rear, keeps the unsprung weight at pretty close to the same number. Plus, the outboard rear is 50 lbs. lighter, and is a bit more tunable. The inboard brakes also were prone to overheating during race conditions. My comment should be viewed in the context of ERA Outboard Braked Rear versus ERA Standard Jaguar Rear Only, not as a general catch-all statement for cars in general. The only down side to the ERA Outboard Braked Rear is that it costs more.

[Large Arbor]

WTW,

I definitely agree with Patrick on the outboard brake options. I have the in board and I have had to change the stub axel shaft seal now twice due to oil leaks. The word is the brakes get too the rearend too hot and it causes seal failure. The cost was not so bad, $350 per time, but the labor was a big job.

I was fortunate enough to buy my ERA and am the second owner. Connecticut Custom did the paint and it was very good except for a couple of spots. I have the 6 pin wheels and an all aluminum 427 FE with sidepipes that make the sound so much of a rush. There are a few things that I would do different on an ERA and if you want reasons why message me and I will share them. A pic of mine is below.

Phil

[willtwallace]

Originally Posted by Large Arbor

WTW,

I definitely agree with Patrick on the outboard brake options. I have the in board and I have had to change the stub axel shaft seal now twice due to oil leaks. The word is the brakes get too the rearend too hot and it causes seal failure. The cost was not so bad, $350 per time, but the labor was a big job.

I was fortunate enough to buy my ERA and am the second owner. Connecticut Custom did the paint and it was very good except for a couple of spots. I have the 6 pin wheels and an all aluminum 427 FE with sidepipes that make the sound so much of a rush. There are a few things that I would do different on an ERA and if you want reasons why message me and I will share them. A pic of mine is below.

Phil

ah, now seal failure is a different animal. Thanks for the advice.

Yes, any and all input is needed. Shoot me a PM.

Thanks

[patrickt]

I think ERA has adopted all the little things I've complained about over the last ten years (like my clutch fork trimming thread). The only thing I can think of that would be really easy and cheap to add up front is to have a little trap door on the passenger side of the tunnel that lets you get to the front drive shaft u-joint for easy lubrication. Yes, you can snake up through the little brass e-brake coupling from down below, but I like to see all four seals purge out nicely. That's easy to do on the other five u-joints, but not the front one on the drive shaft.

Even if you don't go with dual roll bars (and that's ok), have them set the frame up so you can easily mount the second roll bar should you want to later. That's easily done up front, but much more of a pain if you do it later.