Bleeding inside brakes

Omathisen · #1 (**permalink**) 10-07-2018, 11:22 AM

People have discussed bleeding brakes before and Bob Putnam and others have posted "how to" etc. Still, I find bleeding the inside calipers in the rear, with inside brakes (Sierra Wildwood), difficult. Any good way of doing this?
Thanks.

DanEC · #2 (**permalink**) 10-07-2018, 05:17 PM

I have the Girling rear, in-board brakes and I've been able to bleed them from underneath with a bit of dexterity involved. I installed speed bleeders early on which makes it simpler. I just have to crack them open, stick a hose on them to a jar and then simply pump the pedal until I'm satisfied all air is gone.

patrickt · #3 (**permalink**) 10-07-2018, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanEC

I have the Girling rear, in-board brakes and I've been able to bleed them from underneath with a bit of dexterity involved. I installed speed bleeders early on which makes it simpler. I just have to crack them open, stick a hose on them to a jar and then simply pump the pedal until I'm satisfied all air is gone.

I remember ERAChas used to say that SpeedBleeders were the only way to go with a Jag inboard braked rear. I have the outboard braked rear and bleeding that is no different than bleeding any other simple car.

Omathisen · #4 (**permalink**) 10-07-2018, 06:15 PM

I eventually found the access panel behind the seats. Would have been helpful if this had been in my the manual I received. I have had my ERA for 18 years and enjoyed it all, but every so often I run into these things where somebody is making it more difficult than it has to be.

strictlypersonl · #5 (**permalink**) 10-08-2018, 07:42 AM

I'm updating all the manuals to reference the necessity of removing that panel to bleed the rear (Jag) brakes.

davids2toys · #6 (**permalink**) 10-08-2018, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanEC

I have the Girling rear, in-board brakes and I've been able to bleed them from underneath with a bit of dexterity involved. I installed speed bleeders early on which makes it simpler. I just have to crack them open, stick a hose on them to a jar and then simply pump the pedal until I'm satisfied all air is gone.

I also installed the speedbleeders a few years ago when I had the access panel removed for the rear pinion seal issue I had. I am now able to bleed the brakes from underneath (with a lift) without removing the back panel. The back panel is a hassle to remove because I believe everything (seats, tunnel, carpeting, fire extinguisher )needs to be removed first. As Dan said, requires a little dexterity but very doable. Finding the perfect shaped wrench also plays a role. I think I remember bending one of my wrenches for this job.
That said, it is a snap with the access cover removed!

patrickt · #7 (**permalink**) 10-08-2018, 03:26 PM

Speaking of access covers, I'd like to see an access cover on the tunnel adjacent to the front u-joint for easy servicing. Jaguars have 'em, I think we should get one too.

strictlypersonl · #8 (**permalink**) 10-08-2018, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

Speaking of access covers, I'd like to see an access cover on the tunnel adjacent to the front u-joint for easy servicing. Jaguars have 'em, I think we should get one too.

I'm going to digitize the tunnel pieces soon. (We're making them by hand now.) I'll see if there's a reasonable way to do that without going crazy with the carpet, etc. I would prefer to come up from the bottom, but the X-member and the ERA emergency brake linkage might be in the way.

Maybe just a flat rubber plug that you could glue carpet to?

patrickt · #9 (**permalink**) 10-08-2018, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strictlypersonl

Maybe just a flat rubber plug that you could glue carpet to?

Any access is better than what you have to do right now for an ERA outboard braked rear with the emergency brake. To grease the front u-joint, you have to rotate the drive shaft to just the right spot, release the e-brake, and the little brass circular thing slides back and gives you just enough room to get a pistol grip lube fitting up in there. No where in the manual does it tell you that you have to release the emergency brake in order to even see the zerk. It took me a while, and mostly luck, to figure that out. If the emergency brake handle is up, you don't stand a chance and it looks absolutely impossible. I now can do it pretty quickly, but I would still prefer a little lift up carpet flap, with a rubber plug under it that you pull out, and then you can lube it from the side. I can see that for complete u-joint change out you're going to have to pull the tunnel.

davids2toys · #10 (**permalink**) 10-09-2018, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

Any access is better than what you have to do right now for an ERA outboard braked rear with the emergency brake. To grease the front u-joint, you have to rotate the drive shaft to just the right spot, release the e-brake, and the little brass circular thing slides back and gives you just enough room to get a pistol grip lube fitting up in there. No where in the manual does it tell you that you have to release the emergency brake in order to even see the zerk. It took me a while, and mostly luck, to figure that out. If the emergency brake handle is up, you don't stand a chance and it looks absolutely impossible. I now can do it pretty quickly, but I would still prefer a little lift up carpet flap, with a rubber plug under it that you pull out, and then you can lube it from the side. I can see that for complete u-joint change out you're going to have to pull the tunnel.

Don't know anything about the outboard brake setup but that front yoke grease is no picnic on the inboard brake cars either! I like the idea of a rubber plug that has carpet glued it. If done right, you would never see it

patrickt · #11 (**permalink**) 10-09-2018, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davids2toys

Don't know anything about the outboard brake setup but that front yoke grease is no picnic on the inboard brake cars either! I like the idea of a rubber plug that has carpet glued it. If done right, you would never see it

Here are two pics of the elusive front u-joint zerk fitting. The first is with the emergency brake pulled up in to the "on" position. I don't know how many times I had my car up in the air, and I stared at it and stared at it and stared at it, and thought "damn, I'm going to have to pull the tunnel just to grease the front u-joint." And then, one day, I had her up in the air with the emergency brake off and lo and behold I looked at it and said "WTF? How did that happen?"

It's still a PITA to grease even now.

AndrewB · #12 (**permalink**) 10-09-2018, 12:20 PM

Anybody try these remote bleeders? I just ordered them so I'll update once I get them installed.

https://xks.com/i-7150468-jaguar-irs...s-06-0003.html

DanEC · #13 (**permalink**) 10-09-2018, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewB

Anybody try these remote bleeders? I just ordered them so I'll update once I get them installed.

https://xks.com/i-7150468-jaguar-irs...s-06-0003.html

Those actually look pretty interesting. But I'm trying to remember - on the Girling rear calipers are there bleeders on both halves of the calipers (like on older Corvettes)? I went back and looked at my old photos and I think there is a fluid transfer tube so we probably wouldn't need 4 of them. The lines have to be routed higher than the calipers to ensure air isn't trapped in the lines so maybe mount them in the wheel wells or inside the trunk.

Kit Coyle · #14 (**permalink**) 10-10-2018, 07:30 PM

Those look very practical and intuitively should work well...please do report back
how well they actually work! It could be an very inventive solution to a potential
PITA. Very smart!

Chaplin · #15 (**permalink**) 10-10-2018, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strictlypersonl

I'm updating all the manuals to reference the necessity of removing that panel to bleed the rear (Jag) brakes.

I can't believe you need to put that in the manual. I've had my ERA for 15 years now and it was readily apparent to me the first time I looked at it that the only way to do it was to remove the panel.

davids2toys · #16 (**permalink**) 10-11-2018, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewB

Anybody try these remote bleeders? I just ordered them so I'll update once I get them installed.

https://xks.com/i-7150468-jaguar-irs...s-06-0003.html

Never heard of them...really interesting for sure!

davids2toys · #17 (**permalink**) 10-11-2018, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

Here are two pics of the elusive front u-joint zerk fitting. The first is with the emergency brake pulled up in to the "on" position. I don't know how many times I had my car up in the air, and I stared at it and stared at it and stared at it, and thought "damn, I'm going to have to pull the tunnel just to grease the front u-joint." And then, one day, I had her up in the air with the emergency brake off and lo and behold I looked at it and said "WTF? How did that happen?"

It's still a PITA to grease even now.

That is wild. I am going to have to check this out on my car! If this is the front yoke which is what I think we are talking about, would it matter which rear end, inboard brakes or outboard brakes is in the car?

patrickt · #18 (**permalink**) 10-11-2018, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davids2toys

...would it matter which rear end, inboard brakes or outboard brakes is in the car?

Yes, I think the emergency brake configuration is different for the Jag inboard braked setup. Bob can clarify that. What's funny is that I had written Bob asking him how I could get to the front u-joint and, to his credit, he would reply "there is a way to do it, but I think you need a grease gun extension, and then you angle it in a certain way, while you stand a certain way, and the moon must be in the seventh house, but you don't have to pull the tunnel." So each time I stared, I asked myself "just what the hell is he talking about?"

strictlypersonl · #19 (**permalink**) 10-11-2018, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davids2toys

That is wild. I am going to have to check this out on my car! If this is the front yoke which is what I think we are talking about, would it matter which rear end, inboard brakes or outboard brakes is in the car?

That (silver-color) is the equalizer for the ERA rear. The large hole would be completely open with the Jag-based suspension.

DanEC · #20 (**permalink**) 10-11-2018, 11:24 AM

I don't recall the u-joints being that inaccessible on my car with in-board brakes. But I've had my tunnel out enough times that greasing the u-joints hasn't been a problem.