New Stuff

[BLACKJACK]

HEY BOB,

I RECEIVED THE "NEW STUFF" FROM ERA LAST WEEK. REALLY LOOKS GREAT.

I'M GOING TO TRY TO GET INTO TOWN TOMORROW TO PUT THE NEW ALUMINUM RADIATOR IN THE GT-40.

ANY SUGGESTIONS AS TO THE "COOLANT MIXTURE"?? I HAVE HAD SOME PROBLEMS WITH OVERHEATING LAST SUMMER AND I'VE HEARD SOME REAL HORROR STORIES ABOUT SOME TYPES OF COOLANT REALLY "SCREWING-UP" (A REAL TECHNICAL TERM HERE) ALUMINUM RADIATORS.

MY INITIAL OPINION IS TO USE 25 PERCENT PRESTONE - REGULAR WITH 75 PERCENT WATER AND ABOUT A QUART OF "WATER-WETTER". HOWEVER - I HAVE NO SCIENTIFIC BASIS FOR THAT.

WHAT DO YOU RECOMMEND??? IN THE WASHINGTON DC AREA THE TEMPERATURE RARELY (IF EVER) GETS AS LOW AS ZERO DEGREES. DO YOU RECOMMEND USING ANY CORROSION INHIBITORS WITH THE ALUMINUM RADIATOR??

WHAT IS THE TOTAL FLUID CAPACITY OF THE COOLING SYSTEM WITH THE NEW ALUMINUM RADIATOR?? I HAVE A BOSS 302 ENGINE AND THE CAR HEATER.

THANKS VERY MUCH FOR YOUR HELP.

BTW - - MID-APRIL I PLAN TO FLY UP TO CT. TO SEE IF I CAN FIT MY BIG CARCASS INTO AN FIA CAR. I'D LIKE TO GET A DEPOSIT AND ORDER IN SO AS TO TIME THE DELIVERY DATE WITH HAVING THE NEW GARAGE (HOUSE, TOO - MAYBE) FINISHED. I WANT TO BUILD A STREET VERSION - NO HOOD SCOOP OR ROLL BAR - UNDER CAR EXHAUST SYSTEM - DELUXE INTERIOR - CHROME WIRE WHEELS. ETC. ETC.

THANKS AGAIN.

HAVE A REALLY GREAT DAY.

BLACKJACK

[pavulon]

There are several commercially available "premixed" coolant/antifreezes. Last fall I had my Ducati (aluminum radiator also) serviced and filled with a product form a company called Silkolene.
If you're asking me (I know you're not), I would also spend the extra few $$ and flush with distilled water thus avoiding silicates and phosphates which can precipitate on surfaces, impede heat transfer and expedite pump wear. Of course, this may be a bit "anal" but I guess if I'm gonna go through the trouble of doing something, I try to do it as well as I can.
Scott

[BLACKJACK]

THANKS, SCOTT,

I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS. I AGREE COMPLETELY. IF IT'S WORTH DOING - IT'S WORTH BEING ANAL ABOUT IT. FOR AN EXTRA FEW BUCKS IT COULD MEAN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN ENJOYABLE TRIP AND A REAL PAIN.

I NOTICE THAT YOU HAVE AN ERA GT-40. DO YOU HAVE THE ALUMINUM RADIATOR??? HAVE TOU HAD ANY OVERHEATING PROBLEMS WITH IT ???

THANKS, AND Y'ALL HAVE A REALLY GREAT DAY,

BLACKJACK

[Bob Putnam]

Jack,

Since you don't have to worry so much about cold weather, I would only use about 25% (Non-Dexcool) antifreeze in the system, plus a couple of bottles of Water Wetter.

[renaissance man]

Blackjack,

Check out this site. http://www.evanscooling.com/ They have some awesome tech data to support their findings. I'm personally going to give this a try. About 30% better heat transfer than coolant and good for a Minimum of 10 years/100,000 miles. No pressure system so you can't run the risk of blowing hoses either.

Regards,

[Turk]

BLACKJACK
There are many claims to what is best.
I can give you my own (semi-scientific) experience with different combinations. After the building of my engine, and not having my car here yet all I had in my garage was my engine on a test stand.

During that month I must have run 15-20 gallons of fuel through that thing. Checking for leaks, tweaking and sometimes just playing. The poor engine almost needed a set of rings before it got put in the car.

During that time I changed the oil and the coolant often.
I tried 50-50. I tried 50-50 with water wetter. I tried water only. I tried water with only water wetter.

Considering the ambient temperatures in my garage, and air flow etc. The experiment was held in a very consistent setting with no variables. No air flow, no variation in the ambient temperature etc.

The claims of Water Wetter were confirmed.
Just Water Wetter with Water-NO ANTIFREEZE- consistently gave better results.Almost 20 degrees cooler.
That would be my recommendation.

TURK

[renaissance man]

Just asking the question here so lets not take this the wrong way.
But, isn't it true that an engines ambient temp is a combination of a number of things? Primarily made to run in the 195-210F range but even higher in some? The temp can also effect the way and rate that fuel is burned. Too cold of an operating temp is just as bad as say one that may run 250F.?????

Just a question...

[Bob Putnam]

Ren,

You are quite correct, but I suspect that the problem here is when the car is stationary. You can always make an engine run hotter with a different thermostat, but you can't make it run cooler.

[BLACKJACK]

REN MAN,

THAT EVANS COOLING SITE IS REALLY INTERESTING!!!

** NO THERMAL CAVITATION

** NO VAPOR POCKETS

** LITTLE OR NO SYSTEM PRESSURE

ALMOST SOUNDS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE.

A LITTLE BIT "PRICEY" BUT NOT REALLY WHEN COMPARED TO THE COST OF A SET OF GASKETS & THE TIME TO REPLACE THEM.

BOB P. - - - WHAT DO YOU THINK??? ANY OPINIONS???

Y'ALL HAVE A REALLY GREAT DAY,

BLACKJACK

[Bob Putnam]

Jack,

Frankly, I don't think that it'll work very well at idle unless you are willing to see 300 F on the gage. For all the claims, it's got a considerably higher viscosity than water, with a lower heat capacity. The bottom line is that, at idle where it's the most critical, it won't carry as much engine heat to the radiator. The good part is that blowing air through a 300 F radiator is more efficient.

Using this stuff would be a desperation move for me.

Of course I could be wrong.

[renaissance man]

Here is a link to some of the Gallery pics for Evans Cooling. It was even featured on "Shade Tree Mechanic".

http://www.evanscooling.com/main11.htm


Other technical considerations:

Boiling Point: 369° F for NPG versus 224° F for 50/50 "EGW" ethylene glycol and water (at atmospheric pressure - 0.0 psig) - benefits include elimination of afterboil and overheating, allowing temperature excursions above those for EGW, faster recondensation of vapor inside the engine, low (2.0 - 4.0 PSIG) or non-pressurized system, no coolant loss operating in high ambient temperatures, and the capability to increase thermostat temperature settings if desired.

Molar Heat of Vaporization: 12,500 Cals/Mole for NPG versus 9,720 Cals/Mole for EGW - benefits include faster recondensation because less vapor is produced, and a reduction of hot spots because of improved liquid to metal contact. All of which eliminate the occurrence of "Film Boiling" and the accumulation of excessive surface vapor.

Surface Tension: 35 Dynes/Cm for NPG versus 56 Dynes/Cm for EGW -- benefits include small vapor bubble sizes, allowing for faster recondensation of vapor and increased liquid to metal interface, and decreased area of nucleate boiling centers, again increasing liquid to metal interface.

Freezing Point: -70° F for NPG versus -38° F for EGW. NPG does not freeze, it crystallizes and supercools (contracts slightly and becomes a viscous slurry).

Toxicity: EGW is considered a hazardous waste whereas NPG is not as PG is used as a food additive and pharmaceutical base fluid.
Vapor Pressure: 590 mm of Hg for EGW at 212° F versus 18 mm of Hg for NPG. This is the major reason for the dramatic decrease in cylinder liner and pump cavitation.

Important Benefits of NPG Coolant:

Reduction of Hot Spots (Critical Metal Temperatures);
For Gasoline Engines:
Higher Gasoline Efficiency.
Reduces Emissions.
Higher Compression, Power.
Knock Reduction.
Improved Octane Tolerance (lower octane fuel useable).

Secondary Benefits of NPG Coolant:

For Gasoline Engines:
Non-pressurized: (or low pressure, i.e. 4.0 psig) decreased leaks, lower pressure parts, decrease of thermal flexing or cycling (component life extended), elimination of accidents resulting from accidental removal of radiator caps from hot engines.
Allows for a totally closed system (Hermetically Sealed) requiring no service checks and is not subject to contamination.
Improved stability of engine operating temperatures.
Improved aerodynamic styling. The radiator no longer needs to be higher than the engine and can be placed anywhere.
Weight reduction possible if higher coolant temperatures are used. Smaller radiators, less coolant, light-weight metals (such as magnesium for engines), small cooling jackets in the engine, smaller fans.

Decreased duty cycle of coolant fan for the same coolant temperature by allowing for higher temperature excursions for short intervals with no adverse effects on the engine.

Faster combustion chamber metal surface warm-up, CO reduced in start-up (liners get hot faster) mostly because of lower specific heat of cold NPG.

Elimination of premature spark plug failure and head cracking by better cooling of head.
Reduction or elimination of pre-ignition and detonation:
Reduce head distortion and cracking at high compression and supercharged / turbocharged boost levels.
Reduce head gasket fire ring failure.
Reduce piston dome and ring failure.
Reduce valve face sinking ("tuliping").
Reduce rod bearing failure (caused by cylinder pressure, detonation related, spikes).