Next Month I’ll add an automatic Accusump system for an additional $379.02
1 1241-Cyl ACCUSUMP $177.49
1 1245+xx Electro valve $129.99
2 3271-10-090 9- degree AN10 $21.99
2 10/10/3225 10AN to 10 AN $7.99
2 3270-10 Ft of SS Braided Hose $5.79
Total to add ACCUSUMP $379.02 http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/
This was my set up before adding Thermostat.
I currently have the oil temp sending unit in the top of the Remote Oil Filter Mount. I will move it to the oil pan when I add the Accusump.
Cobra Make, Engine: Original ERA 427sc, Powered by Gessford
Posts: 2,678
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Okie-
Thanks for the pics and diagrams- that helps. One question though, on the accusump diagram, where will the accusump be plumbed into? From your diagram it looks like all three ports on the remote bracket will already be taken- one for the filter, one for the oil in and one for oil out.
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Replica is not a dirty word.
"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning."
The pic of the remote oil filter mount is actually the top view. The oil filter connects to the bottom of the bracket. Currently I have the oil temp sending unit in the hole that the Accusump will hook into http://pages.sbcglobal.net/tdockstett/OTmpSnd.jpg . It is a Canton brand remote oil filter adaptor. Here is a link to a pic of the current set up. http://pages.sbcglobal.net/tdockstett/OilFltr.jpg I'll post some pics of the updated system after the parts come from pegasus and I get them installed.
Canton also sells an inline "T" adaptor that can be used to hook up the Accusump. http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/.../plumbing.html
The stainless steel hoses are easy to cut. I use a dremel cutting wheel to cut just deep enough around the out perimeter of the hose to cut the Stainless steel weaving but not all the way through the rubber. Then use either a hose cutter or utility knife to cut through the rest of the rubber. That way the ss weaving stays tight and no debris gets into the hose.
Last edited by Okiesnake; 01-15-2004 at 05:50 AM..
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #375 427 S/C - 428FE - Toploader - 1968 AMX 390 Go Pack 4 Speed - My Daily Driver is a 2004 Crossfire
Posts: 872
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Hi Okie!
Thanks ever so much for the real nice pictures and parts manifests. You Da Man!
One question for you regarding the Accusump install....
As you show it in your diagram, the Accusump would be plumbed into the top of the oil filter bracket. If that is so, when it discharges oil (to pre lube) what would stop the oil flow from flowing back thru the oil pump and into the sump?
This has always been nagging at me regarding the pre-oiler. It seems to me you want the oil to go in one direction only. If that is true, then is not some sort of check valve needed?
If this question sounds negative, it is not meant to be. This aspect has just puzzled me. Perhaps I do not know enough about the oil flow "directionality" of the oil filter bracket?
A car can massage organs which no masseur can reach. It is the one remedy for the disorders of the great sympathetic nervous system. Jean Cocteau 1889-1963, French Author, Filmmaker
REDSC400,
Your backflow issue is a good point, and I am going to revise my installation to incorporate a Universal Oil input Adapter that has a built-in one-way check valve. I spoke with Canton (tel.203.481.9460) this morning and they faxed me Accusump's Installation & Operating instructions. You can use either an in-line "T" adapter and a one-way check valve or more simply, 1 1/4" Universal Oil input Adapter sandwich between the filter and the remote filter adapter (part# #22-565 $55.00, see bottom right of page http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/...ump_input.html ).
They also told me that as configured in my above illustration, the oil filter itself would act as a one-way valve to some degree. However, I am going to go with the Universal Oil input Adapter sandwich for good measure.
I’ll later up-date and repost the diagram.
Thanks.
I have a diagram in one of my manuals at home that shows the oil flow path for, I think, both a 428 and 427. I'll check it this evening when I get home and let you know what it indicates as to flow path.
Plan at this point for my build is to plumb the accusump into a T on top of the oil filter adapter where the oil pressure sending unit now attaches. May have to rethink (re: backflow) as I look into it more deeply.
DonC
A car can massage organs which no masseur can reach. It is the one remedy for the disorders of the great sympathetic nervous system. Jean Cocteau 1889-1963, French Author, Filmmaker
Yikes, this is getting complicated as it did on the Unique forum where Okie and I were discussing it. His drawing IS very clear. I was almost with the program until the accusump and backflow issues emerged. This is adding a lot of complexity. Is the accumsump really necessary for street use?
For street use only, the Accusump's only merit is as a pre-oiler if the car has set for a while since last running the motor. That in itself if probably not worth the cost of investing in an accusump. However, for taking the car out on an open track day, Auto-X or whenever pushing the car hard with heavy lateral G's, I feel it is well worth the money. In such situations, the oil pump can run dry when the oil pick up gets low in lateral G's, and at a time the motor is already stressed. An Accsump will deliver oil for up to 60 seconds if the oil pressure drops.
For just street use only, I would recomend adding the thermostat and NOT the Accusump.
Last edited by Okiesnake; 01-15-2004 at 03:49 PM..
Update with check valve. I think I will go with the check valve with the "T" adapter as compared to the Universal Oil input Adapter sandwich. I think there will be less chance of leaks or anything coming loose.
Thanks REDSC400 for the "inquiring mind"
BTW, The folks at both Canton and Pegasus Racing are great. They will take time time and answer any questions.
Last edited by Okiesnake; 01-15-2004 at 09:16 PM..
O.K. here goes. With a very large FWIW preceding it my thoughts on the pre-oiling situation.
Oil Flow:
In a standard configuration oil comes out of the pump to the outside area of the oil filter where pressure forces it through the filter element to the inside tube. Up the inside tube into the oil galleries and then back down into the pan. (drawings in my gallery as 428.jpg for a standard 428/solid lifters, 428Hyd.jpg for a 428/hydraulic lifters and 427SO.jpg for the 427/hydraulic lifters).
Opinion (just like a-holes, everyone’s got one and they usually smell ;-)):
No matter what the engine, a good deal of wear takes place on start when the moving components have minimal or no standing lubrication. A pre-oiling system, either accumulator or pump, addresses this and, even if minimally efficient, provides reduced start up wear.
Plumbing and backflow:
Backflow would appear to be present in any system that accesses the oil galleries directly. How much this would reduce the efficiency of a pre-oiling system would, I’m sure, be a combination of a number of factors that are wayyy beyond my simple understanding of the oil system.
Given the oil flow from the pump I think the ideal point to plum in a pre-oiling system would be a separate tap into the system between the point at which oil exits the filter and the first pickoff point of the oiling system. This would still have the backflow problem but I think it would be minimized through the design of the filter and the fact that the oil pump, in a non-rotating condition would also restrict back flow through it.
Second best would to plumb into the system at the return side of the cooler with a check valve upstream of the tap. The check valve would eliminate the back flow problem but wouldn’t be my first choice because of the failure potential of the check valve. While check valves are extremely simple in design it’s still a failure point being introduced into the system and a failure of the check valve would result in total oil starvation for the engine. Again, not often heard of but possible.
Third choice would be to plumb the pre-oiling system into a T at the point at which the oil pressure-sending unit taps into the top of the oil filter housing. This is a less efficient structure by retaining the backflow personality as described above but eliminates the potential failure point of the check valve.
Pumps vs Accumulators:
Using a pump system would negate the backflow concern because, even if it occurred, the continuous action of the pump would override it. What a pump doesn’t address is the ability of the accumulator to provide temporary oil supply during period of intermittent interruption of the oil supply which may occur during turns and acceleration and deceleration if it is intended to be used as not only a pre-oiler but a pressurized auxiliary sump.
What you use, if you use, a pre-oiler is a matter of individual choice and I’m sure there are any number of other factors to be considered but the above are the concerns I’m fighting with at this point.
DonC
Don, I think you are right that the oil pump in itself would prevent backflow WHILE it is pumping (ie when the motor is running). However, as a pre-oilier, before starting the motor, the pump would not be running and therefore not in itself, be able to stop backflow.
But as you pointed out, backflow will be prevented by the design of the oil filter. (If you accidentally switch of oil lines going in and out of the oil filter you will get virtually no oil pressure because of that design!)
When I spoke with the folks at Canton/Accusump, tel# (203) 481-9460, they told me that it makes all most no difference at all if you use a check valve or not. They also faxed me the full copy of the Accusump installation and owners manual. It did show several different set ups. I would suggest that you too might ask them to fax you a copy.
Okiesnake
I used 45 degree hose ends, and the part number was 844510. I believe that the 90 degree fitting would be 849010, according to the chart on the attached link.
Oakie:
Thanks for the information on the one-way nature of the filter. I thought that was the case but wasn't sure.
The pre-lube pump I was referring to is set up just like an accusump in that it electric and turned on before engine start to pre-lube. One of them is located at: http://www.espperformance.com/rlelec.../indextest.htm
There is a member of CC (PeterK) who uses the turbo model of the pump that runs for about 5 minutes after the engine is shut off to prevent hot oil from coking internally. Not a bad idea but the system runs about $500.00.
any news about ERA's with oil thermostats ?
Linear Mode
