What would you do?

[tcrist]

I think I need more butter for my popcorn.

Terry

[Chaplin]

Doug /Zoera-
I was thinking the same thing you guys were- I bet ERA had actually started building this guy's car when he cancelled his order. In fact, Pavulon's below quote from earlier on in this thread pretty much confirms that they had started building the car, because ERA asks for 1 initial deposit to hold your spot in line and they don't ask for any additional money again until they actually start building. If Pavulon provided money "each time he was asked" (how many times was he asked? how far into the build had they gotten? We don't know), they had obviously started working on the car.

Originally Posted by pavulon

However, talk is cheap and each time I was asked for money, I provided it. It is a straight forward refund of deposit.

Thanks again.
Scott

That being said, if they did agree to refund any portion of his deposit, I have little doubt that they will live up to the deal they agreed to, in spite of this thread.

[fsstnotch]

IMHO opinion... this thread is pretty useless! I mean.. if we don't have both sides to the story, how can we compare? I'm not doubting either party but everyone here seems to be defending ERA, "If an agreement was made, they will honor it" Well.. obviously not if it's been as long as this guy states it has and still no action? At all!? I mean, it was almost 2 weeks ago that it was said the book keeper was "fired," I'm sorry for ERA but by now they should have gotten things sorted out at least to the point where they could cut this guy a check for the deposit he says was agreed upon! And if the book keeper was laid off.... there is absolutely no excuse! I mean, surely you don't go and layoff somebody without having somebody to pick up their duties! I know they wouldn't lay off their master fabricator without having a competent backup! I think there are parts to this story that are either not being told or pavulon is unaware of! It just doesn't seem right that this would keep going on... And what does it matter if they started his build? I mean, surely they can sell it to the next customer with a ease, especially if the wait time is now 3 months instead of 6! From everything that I've read about teh business practices of ERA, they seem like a very honest, fair company. Posting here on the forums about business could be both good and bad for business.. I think it could be more good than bad. I think it looks bad when someone posts a bad thread about them and they post in the thread but don't defend themselves. Sure, I understand this place is meant for relaxation for them as it is for many of us, but there is no reason that they can't be a business on CC as well as a customer. If your business practices are as good as I've read, they have nothing to worry about.

I know it might sound like I'm bashing ERA, but I'm seriously not! I'm just trying to put it into perspective for somebody who has never bought from ERA, nor knows any of them. If I were a potential buyer, this thread would be a huge red flag, and I would probably wait to see how it turned out. it's now been 2 weeks since the thread started and nothing has been said or done. I would likely move on to my next choice.

My perspective of this thread is that at this point, it is doing alot more damage than good since ERA is not doing anything to defend themselves or make the agreement right. And who knows, maybe pavulon is a total liar and we don't even have half of the truth, but from all his posts, I woud tend to believe otherwise. He didn't come on here bashing ERA! He just wanted what was apparently agreed upon. Even said he would still buy from ERA!

Well... that's my view on this thread as an outsider with no affiliation to ERA or pavulon. Take it as you will, there are no ill intentions here towards ERA or pavulon. Surely they both have a story, unfortunately we're only going to hear one side apparently.

Josh

[Excaliber]

It is clear from ERA's web site that once they start working on your car you forfiet the deposit. "They can sell it again" really doesn't cut it, since it's pretty clearly spelled out. Good or bad policy, I don't know, it is THE policy, you either agree to it or you go somewhere else.

However, at this point I have no reason to disbelieve Pavulon when he says they agreed to a refund.

Which puts us back to square one, 'rumor has it...'. To my knowledge Peter has NEVER posted on Club Cobra, I don't think he will start now. And of course Bob is, in fact, 'strictly personal'. At best ERA has an informal relationship with Club Cobra.

[GlynMeek]

Excaliber...I agree with Josh here. I looked at ERA when I was buying mine a couple of years ago, and had always thought they were one of the 'top 5' out there, but this thread DOES seem to paint them as the bad guy. As a former CEO, and now a company Chairman, though, and looking at it from ERA's perspective, there may well be 'the other side' of this, and unless we hear that, most folks will tend to lean towards he who makes the most noise.

Not wishing to see ANY small business hurt by rumor and (as yet) unproven innuendo, do you think ANYONE who DOES read this forum has made contact with ERA and informed the folks there that their good name is REALLY being taken in vain, and that they might like to post a response/rebuttal. Whether they like it or not, THIS IS AN INFLUENTIAL FORUM for Cobra buyers, and ANY untrue or inappropriate negativity should be avoided.

Should someone?

Glyn

[289FIA]

[quote=Dangerous Doug]289FIA: I take it you've been putting ERA off for your own reasons, correct? Your post above makes ERA sound like they've been bouncing you around. However, I placed MY 289 FIA order on June 14, 2005 and had my non-roller in my garage by April 2006.

As posted earlier… I’m in no hurry. They were backed-up in late 2006 and I told Peter to put me on the bottom of his list... my doing!

Didn't mean it to sound negative towards ERA. Gave me a little more time to source parts…. and change my mind a couple of times!

Snakebitekit: Glad to hear yours in on the way.

[fsstnotch]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

It is clear from ERA's web site that once they start working on your car you forfiet the deposit. "They can sell it again" really doesn't cut it, since it's pretty clearly spelled out. Good or bad policy, I don't know, it is THE policy, you either agree to it or you go somewhere else.

However, at this point I have no reason to disbelieve Pavulon when he says they agreed to a refund.

Which puts us back to square one, 'rumor has it...'. To my knowledge Peter has NEVER posted on Club Cobra, I don't think he will start now. And of course Bob is, in fact, 'strictly personal'. At best ERA has an informal relationship with Club Cobra.

I totally agree! And if that is ERA's policy, then I guess he's out his money if they had already started. Most manufacturers don't start till they've recieved half though right?

My main point is that, even thoguh all you ERA guys are defending ERA. In the eye of the potential buyer, this is still a HUGE red flag! It'd be nice to see this resolved or at least explained so to clear ERA's good name! And I say good, because I haven't seen an era owner yet that has complained about customer service. That's why it just seems that there must be more to the story that we (CC) and possibly even pavulon don't know about.

[Chaplin]

Originally Posted by fsstnotch

IMHO opinion... this thread is pretty useless! I mean.. if we don't have both sides to the story, how can we compare?
Josh

Of course it is useless, it was never meant to have any use for any one except Pavulon. This thread was created simply as a strong arm tactic to try to gain leverage in getting his deposit back. Pavulon claims up front that he was "not naming names" and was just "looking for advice", yet he posts this thread in the ERA forum . . . Frankly, I am surprised Bob replied at all.

Originally Posted by fsstnotch

"And what does it matter if they started his build? I mean, surely they can sell it to the next customer with a ease, especially if the wait time is now 3 months instead of 6!"

It matters if they started the build because up until the time they start the build, the deposit is 100% refundable. After the build is started, refund is discretionary based on work done. The fact that they agreed to give him a refund after they started work (if that is in fact the case) shows that they were acting in good faith and not trying to screw him. They could have simply said, "Sorry we've used all your deposit money building the car, there is nothing left to return."

And as to the second part of your question, if this was for a GT 40, I don't think, that spot could be sold to the next customer with ease, because I don't think there are that many GT 40s sold- could months before they take another deposit on a GT 40.

But you are right, this thread is useless.

[ERA2188]

I put my $5K down on Jan. 4 and another $5 k right behind it for a chasis. I told Peter I "was in a hurry", a relative term in ordering a turnkey from a company with a backlog. My "kit" was finished and went to paint so I paid the $10K balance on the bonded body kit price, and she's back from paint. I have offered to pay another $10 k towards the completed roller (my motor is on the floor in a crate) but Peter said "no, we don't work that way, we finish the car then you pay". Both Peter Portante and Bob Putnam have been extremely helpful in educating me on choices and specs re wheel offsets (bought Vintage Wheels) and other technical aspects of the finished package. I could not be more pleased with the professionalism and quality of the people and the product. I attribute this continuing thread to Peter's virtual non participation in the "computer age". I am hoping to have my finished FIA#2117 before Christmas. The "Mystic Blue" body is waiting anxiously to have the KC 331 Stroker installed!! Have a great day and enjoy some more popcorn!! Rickd

[xracerbob]

Snakebit-
Glad you got such a great delivery!

I put my deposit down on March 7, 2007 and my 427SC has not been started yet, even though I was told it probably would be started at the end of July or early August. I think what happened is after the new body and improvements were introduced on the 427, the backlog grew and the delivery of FIA's got better. I also stated that I want to be driving in the spring of 08, so its possible ERA is working within that timetable. I try to keep in touch with Peter without being a pest.

[Dangerous Doug]

Pavulon: Time to pony up with some facts.

How many times did you give ERA money?

Did ERA actually start building the GT-40 when you decided you could not continue?

How much money (in increments) have you given ERA?

How much money have you recieved back from ERA so far?

Were these refunds consistent with ERA's stated policy, or was ERA/Peter being exceptionally nice to you?

Unless you pony up some details, I've lost sympathy for your "plight", real, imagined, or otherwise.

Dangerous Doug

[JWheaton]

Couple of things regarding this thread and ERA

1) Reread Chaplins last post -- could not have been better stated.

2) ERA does not use this website or any other website to mediate their customer problems.

3) As Chappy states he is surprised that Bob commented on this. Bob is a fantastic guy and certainly helps out with small orders here and there but he is like a mad scientist hanging out up in the loft of ERA in New Britain, Ct. making their cars better. He is not the business manager.

4) Book Keeper is irrelevant (What is this -- Capone all over again). Peter, if he does have malice any where in his body, is not going to have any for a guy that is placing an order.

This thread is useless. Club Cobra is NOT the better business bureau. We all just speculate here. It is shame that ERA gets slammed here for doing the correct thing and dealing with the people one on one. If Peter is not returning calls it is because (speculation here) that nothing has changed on the deal or the deal has been completed.

[pavulon]

Originally Posted by Dangerous Doug

Pavulon: Time to pony up with some facts.

How many times did you give ERA money?

Did ERA actually start building the GT-40 when you decided you could not continue?

How much money (in increments) have you given ERA?

How much money have you recieved back from ERA so far?

Were these refunds consistent with ERA's stated policy, or was ERA/Peter being exceptionally nice to you?

Unless you pony up some details, I've lost sympathy for your "plight", real, imagined, or otherwise.

Dangerous Doug

Despite being shown a large amount of disrespect for bringing a real issue to THE place where it belongs (as opposed to another forum where everyone not intertested in ERA has ample opportunity to read/write about it), I'll explain my situation...some of it again.

ERA received two $5,000 payments separated by roughly 2 years....one payment at initial contact and the second after being told by Peter that they were cutting/bending a run of stainless and were unsure as to if they were going to cut/bend anymore as GT production was in question. As I recall, I was asked to specify left or right hand drive at that time and that was all. I informed them that I did not wish to be left w/out opportunity to have a GT and sent the second payment.

As stated earlier, I received a payment of $5,000 after many calls. I have since placed many more calls and been told by Peter a ton of BS to include, "I'll send it next month on the 15th", "I'll send it next week, buddy", "It was sent last week" ..... . Not sure why I'd get one payment and then have the rest turn to excrement but there are soooo many issues here that I can't get my head around I've lost count.

As for policy, I can't quote another company's policy for you just as if you laid down on an OR table, I can't expect you to quote my company's policy for me. Nor can I tell you if a company's policy has changed over the years. I can tell you that Peter and I made a deal and that I've received half the money I was promised and a bunch of lies since. You be the judge of where right and wrong is.

As for sympathy, I've only asked for opinions....I'm not into sympathy. I have been contacted by many people including another guy who had empathy for my situation as he was in a similar situation w/ the same player a few years ago, posted and was roundly shouted down after posting....as I seem to be experiencing something similar. I've not been slanderous of ERA to anyone who has PM'd me.

I only want my money back and am disappointed that so many here seem to have such a hard time accepting that someone's reality and another's opinion may not be synonymous. I'm sure that ERA has been great for the vast majority if people. I'm not them.

Lastly, where is the other party on this? Al Gore invented the 'net decades ago. It's a good enough medium to advertise on. Why is it not good enough for an explanation....anyone can post...even people who claim to not give a rip about the topic....but read to the last page to post....odd.

Scott

[Excaliber]

Thanks for finally (after a couple of pages) laying out the details. I've never seen ERA advertise on Club Cobra, maybe I missed it? Club Cobra (Brent) set up a forum for the owners, not the manufacturer.

Serious accusations have been made against a firm and a person with a stellar reputation, yeah, your going to take some heat over that, no way around it. A 'jury of your peers' can reach no conclusion without hearing both sides of the argument. Unless that happens we are left with 'rumor has it'...

I suspect this has something to do with 'switching' your deposit from a GT to a Cobra and then asking for it back all together?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Serious accusations have been made against a firm and a person with a stellar reputation...

When I was dealing with Peter I kept coming up with what I thought were really clever ways to move my build up in front of the guys that were before me. Finally, while sitting in Peter's office he looked at me from across his paper-strewn desk and said to me, politely but firmly, "Pat, you can't buy us, so quit trying." And indeed, I couldn't, so I did.

[JWheaton]

Originally Posted by pavulon

Despite being shown a large amount of disrespect for bringing a real issue to THE place where it belongs (as opposed to another forum where everyone not intertested in ERA has ample opportunity to read/write about it), I'll explain my situation...some of it again.

ERA received two $5,000 payments separated by roughly 2 years....one payment at initial contact and the second after being told by Peter that they were cutting/bending a run of stainless and were unsure as to if they were going to cut/bend anymore as GT production was in question. As I recall, I was asked to specify left or right hand drive at that time and that was all. I informed them that I did not wish to be left w/out opportunity to have a GT and sent the second payment.

As stated earlier, I received a payment of $5,000 after many calls. I have since placed many more calls and been told by Peter a ton of BS to include, "I'll send it next month on the 15th", "I'll send it next week, buddy", "It was sent last week" ..... . Not sure why I'd get one payment and then have the rest turn to excrement but there are soooo many issues here that I can't get my head around I've lost count.

As for policy, I can't quote another company's policy for you just as if you laid down on an OR table, I can't expect you to quote my company's policy for me. Nor can I tell you if a company's policy has changed over the years. I can tell you that Peter and I made a deal and that I've received half the money I was promised and a bunch of lies since. You be the judge of where right and wrong is.

As for sympathy, I've only asked for opinions....I'm not into sympathy. I have been contacted by many people including another guy who had empathy for my situation as he was in a similar situation w/ the same player a few years ago, posted and was roundly shouted down after posting....as I seem to be experiencing something similar. I've not been slanderous of ERA to anyone who has PM'd me.

I only want my money back and am disappointed that so many here seem to have such a hard time accepting that someone's reality and another's opinion may not be synonymous. I'm sure that ERA has been great for the vast majority if people. I'm not them.

Lastly, where is the other party on this? Al Gore invented the 'net decades ago. It's a good enough medium to advertise on. Why is it not good enough for an explanation....anyone can post...even people who claim to not give a rip about the topic....but read to the last page to post....odd.

Scott

Scott,
I don't think people are disrespecting you. I think the majority of people are trying to provide their stories to provide you prospective and hope that you can deal with ERA. This is not necessarily the place it belongs. This is a enthusiast website not a place to arbitrate deals between companies.

Your story has somewhat changed or was not provided in complete form. You mention that you received 5K back. I went to look back and did not see that portion of your story. I've sat in Peter's office many a time when people ask him questions, hard questions, and he is to the point. He does not play games. The quotes you attriibute to him don't add up to the personality I know.

By posting here the first issue that you will have to get through now is that there is more to the story than you first wrote to start the thread. Not saying that was intential, but it people are sharp in this place and will pick up in descrepencies faster then fly's on ****e.

Lastly - not many businesses openly negotiate with customers on the web. It is not in their or their customers best interest.

I wish you luck with getting back what you believe to be yours. However, you should understand that this is not like buying a Toyota and getting refunds back. If ERA started on a car they put time, labor and materials into your purchase they would be out funds. If you backed out after that process started then why would they owe you anything. Is this what has happened? Nobody knows but you.

[pavulon]

Originally Posted by JWheaton

Scott,
I don't think people are disrespecting you. I think the majority of people are trying to provide their stories to provide you prospective and hope that you can deal with ERA. This is not necessarily the place it belongs. This is a enthusiast website not a place to arbitrate deals between companies.

Your story has somewhat changed or was not provided in complete form. You mention that you received 5K back. I went to look back and did not see that portion of your story. I've sat in Peter's office many a time when people ask him questions, hard questions, and he is to the point. He does not play games. The quotes you attriibute to him don't add up to the personality I know.

By posting here the first issue that you will have to get through now is that there is more to the story than you first wrote to start the thread. Not saying that was intential, but it people are sharp in this place and will pick up in descrepencies faster then fly's on ****e.

Lastly - not many businesses openly negotiate with customers on the web. It is not in their or their customers best interest.

I wish you luck with getting back what you believe to be yours. However, you should understand that this is not like buying a Toyota and getting refunds back. If ERA started on a car they put time, labor and materials into your purchase they would be out funds. If you backed out after that process started then why would they owe you anything. Is this what has happened? Nobody knows but you.

After reviewing the thread, it is accurate to say that I failed to state that I had received 50% of a $10K deposit...my mistake and it was not my intention to mislead anyone. There are people out there that have that info in a PM reply but that is not an excuse for leaving it out here.

The rest is accurate. No switching. When I was asked for money I sent it. Games or otherwise, the run-around I've experienced remains unchanged.

Please understand that I'm not asking anyone from ERA to debate me here...only to pay attention to this and follow through on the deal agreed to.
I'll happily post if I ever get the money back. I'll also chronicle my ordeal if I'm forced to get an attorney in CT.

Thank you for your concern and well-wishes. I appreciate it sincerely.

[fsstnotch]

Palulon... I need some info....

1.) Was the car started?
2.) Care to disclose the EXACT terms of the agreement?
3.) Do you have this agreement in writting?

My biggest problem with this thread is not that I believe you are telling lies or trying to make things appear what they aren't. My problem is that nowdays, the internet could very easily make or break a company whether they like it or not! (the movie condemned comes to mind for anyone who's seen it) Having a bunch of vague info is a bad thing. Since it is VERY apparent that Era will not be speaking on behalf of themselves, and this IS just a chronicle of your experience, it is VERY important that it is accurate!

[JWheaton]

Originally Posted by fsstnotch

Palulon... I need some info....

1.) Was the car started?
2.) Care to disclose the EXACT terms of the agreement?
3.) Do you have this agreement in writting?

My biggest problem with this thread is not that I believe you are telling lies or trying to make things appear what they aren't. My problem is that nowdays, the internet could very easily make or break a company whether they like it or not! (the movie condemned comes to mind for anyone who's seen it) Having a bunch of vague info is a bad thing. Since it is VERY apparent that Era will not be speaking on behalf of themselves, and this IS just a chronicle of your experience, it is VERY important that it is accurate!

So you know some history -- ERA has never responded to customers through this site on business matters. Unique doesn't, Kirkham doesn't, Shell Valley doesn't....etc....nor should they.

What we do get from those in the business is their knowledge about cars and their good advice.

[fsstnotch]

OK... for all you ERA guys! I AM NOT BASHING ERA FOR NOT POSTING! I don't blame them if that is how they want to do business! I'm just stating facts that I've gathered from this thread alone. I did plenty of research on era before I decided on Hurricane. I didn't see any complaints. That's why I think it's imperative that ALL the facts are clear! What I see as fact from this thread is this....

1.) Pavulon ordered a GT40 from Era and made 2 payments totalling $10,000
2.) Peter and pavulon agreed upon a refund after pavulon backed out
3.) after much waiting, he was refunded $5000 and told he would get the rest in a week
4.) It has been more than 2 weeks since this thread was started and nothing has been done
5.) We've been told that the book keeper walked out the door
6.) OR WAIT... maybe he was laid off?
7.) Peter hasn't returned phone calls
8.) Era owners stand firm and loyal!

Again I AM NOT bashing ERA. I am stating the facts of this thread which is why it is sooooo important that all the facts are clear! The next potential Era owner could very easily read this thread and see exactly what I see as an UNBIASED NON-Era owner!