What would you do?

[hey,littlecobra]

I don't think everybody gets it.

ERA nor OTHER manufacturers are going to post here regarding business practices. ERA (unlike other manufacturers) has zero official presence on this forum, other than Bob posting here unofficially.
What is so hard about this??

I keep reading the same stuff over and over. Other than the fact that i have an OLD ERA, and have only dealt with ERA on a couple of replacement parts, I have had ZERO to do with ERA.

The issues here seem to be between two particular parties, and if i was reading this about Hurricane, or Superformance or whomever, I would read it, say 'hmmmm, unhappy customer who thinks he may be owed money but maybe not... and well i hope they work it out.'
It is so onesided, and it is continuously one or two guys commenting negatively on ERA and a flock of ERA people defending ERA.

enough already! We aren't going to see it resolved on CC.

I just can't help but think there has got to be MORE to the story of why he hasn't gotten the 'other $5K' back; and that ERA may very well be 'justified' in keeping it or thinking they did $5K in parts/materials/labor and that's it. Business done. They probably 'lost' more than $5K in the deal from the start anyway.
This thread is just a merry go round.
kristen

[fsstnotch]

Thank you KRISTEN!

Apparently when I say it, it sounds like Era bashing! There has got to be more to the story that we will never know because Era IS NOT GOING TO POST! It's not a big deal if they post or don't post. That's their choice! It doesn't matter either way except that this thread is worthless without getting both sides of the story.

Era makes a great looking kit and until this thread I had neither read, nor heard anything bad about them. I'm only posting in this thread because I wanted to point out how bad this thread looks to the potential buyer who has nevr dealt with Era directly. Kristen, I believe you are probably right about Era thinking the deal is done. That's why the EXACT terms of said agreement need to be posted. And if there is no written form.. it can only be considered hearsay!

[Don]

A different perspective regarding ERA, and not being an ERA owner with no business or personal ties to ERA or the staff. This past spring a group of us in CT, home state of ERA, met to outline an approach for obtaining an emissions exemption on kit cars and replicas. Peter attended the meeting, first time I had met him, and along with others agreed to submit written testimony and testify at the Public Hearing, on the exemption request , at the CT General Assembly Transportation Committee hearing.

Along with other kit car/replica owners, Peter testified at the Public Hearing representing the 325 CT hobbyists ( audit of CT DMV records verified the registered kit cars/replicas ) owning the kit cars/replicas , CT small business owners and ERA's business interest. In conjunction with others that testified, Peter's public testimony was very well received by the Transportation Committee and the Co-Chairs.

With the active participation of many hobbyists/enthusiasts, including Peter, we were successful in obtaining the exemption which was included in the CT DMV Bill. It is not implied that Peter's role by itself made the difference, but he was directly involved.

While nothing to do with the specific subject of this Thread, but thought it was relevant to mention ERA's and Peter involvement, which probably is not known nor to the best of my knowledge has ERA ever mentioned.

[WarrenG]

1.) Bob, who is probably the primary computer/internet user at ERA, is their engineer not their sales rep so would probably have little to add to the discussion here.
2.) Peter, who is the sales rep, does not use the internet at all.
3.) ERA has nothing to gain by posting here especially with the complaining party talking about seeking out an attorney.
4.) ERA GT40's probably run about $135+K making finding another buyer more difficult than finding another buyer for their 427 or FIA. Lead time for one of their GT40's I believe is close to 2 years so it is not like they are shoving them out the door on a regular basis.
5.) There are lots of good reasons, from a business perspective, to layoff an individual (if that was truly the case) prior to hiring a replacement.
6.) As a very small business with everybody pretty specialized in their tasks, it entirely conceivable that only the bookkeeper had a good handle on where all of the money "was" and the status of customer and vendor accounts.
7.) It does sound like the refund of the last $5K was not in keeping with their stated policy and may have been agreed to in spite of that policy which would, IMHO, makes a timetable for the refund kind of open ended.
8.) I'm sure it's a frustrating situation on both sides.
9.) I'll bet that everybody on this forum including business owners answers and/or returns every phone call they receive. Yeah right.

[tbell]

All of us ERA customers receive a copy of our work order periodically to confirm changes. On this work order is a list of deposits we make. The bookkeeper is not the only person who has access to this information.

[JWheaton]

Originally Posted by fsstnotch

OK... for all you ERA guys! I AM NOT BASHING ERA FOR NOT POSTING! I don't blame them if that is how they want to do business! I'm just stating facts that I've gathered from this thread alone. I did plenty of research on era before I decided on Hurricane. I didn't see any complaints. That's why I think it's imperative that ALL the facts are clear! What I see as fact from this thread is this....

1.) Pavulon ordered a GT40 from Era and made 2 payments totalling $10,000
2.) Peter and pavulon agreed upon a refund after pavulon backed out
3.) after much waiting, he was refunded $5000 and told he would get the rest in a week
4.) It has been more than 2 weeks since this thread was started and nothing has been done
5.) We've been told that the book keeper walked out the door
6.) OR WAIT... maybe he was laid off?
7.) Peter hasn't returned phone calls
8.) Era owners stand firm and loyal!

Again I AM NOT bashing ERA. I am stating the facts of this thread which is why it is sooooo important that all the facts are clear! The next potential Era owner could very easily read this thread and see exactly what I see as an UNBIASED NON-Era owner!

fsstnotch -- Reread my post. I was not bashing you. What I wrote was essentially the same as what Kristen wrote. There is a lot of history that this site has. Some not available anymore due to system outages. As you have joined in July of 07 I thought I would point that out to you regarding the manufacturers and how they have pretty much all used this site. I would have never imagined that you would have read over 7 years worth of threads in two months.

[WarrenG]

Originally Posted by tbell

All of us ERA customers receive a copy of our work order periodically to confirm changes. On this work order is a list of deposits we make. The bookkeeper is not the only person who has access to this information.

I got one copy of my work order from ERA. I never got anythingelse from the bookkeeper or anybodyelse except a receipt for my deposit. Which by the way came from the bookkeeper.

[fsstnotch]

Originally Posted by JWheaton

fsstnotch -- Reread my post. I was not bashing you. What I wrote was essentially the same as what Kristen wrote. There is a lot of history that this site has. Some not available anymore due to system outages. As you have joined in July of 07 I thought I would point that out to you regarding the manufacturers and how they have pretty much all used this site. I would have never imagined that you would have read over 7 years worth of threads in two months.

You'd be surprised! Remember, I'm in Iraq and 99% of the time my job consists of surfing the net. In the IT field.. "if it aint broken... DON'T TOUCH IT!" Especially here where communications are vital to the mission! I read alot! Especially on this board! I gotta soak up all the info I can before the build starts!

[tbell]

Let me state this simply: Deposits and refunds are handwritten on customer work orders and are available to all employees to view.

[jose velez]

It is ridiculous that this subject lasted this long. The customer canceled the order after the kit was in production. The customer delayed payments and the start of construction without an increase in kit price. The customer tried to sell his option without success. The customer has tried to damage ERA's name on this site and ERA customers and other have come to its defense.

I hope that this is the end of this story. This is not BBB.

[jwd]

Originally Posted by jose velez

It is ridiculous that this subject lasted this long. The customer canceled the order after the kit was in production. The customer delayed payments and the start of construction without an increase in kit price. The customer tried to sell his option without success. The customer has tried to damage ERA's name on this site and ERA customers and other have come to its defense.

I hope that this is the end of this story. This is not BBB.

Jose,
You're making alot of ass-umptions. Sounds like a complete refund was promised by ERA but they didn't follow through (why would they blame it on a book-keeper ). Unless they respond again, that's the way it remains to appear.

[jose velez]

Ass-umptions?. Which one?

[ERA649]

I have to say, I read to much of this BS. And I believe this deal is how it was stated in Jose's post.

Anytime you put down a deposit on a custom built anything and you cancel, you loose your deposit, it's time you faced the music and grow up.

[jwd]

[quote=jose velez] The customer delayed payments and the start of construction without an increase in kit price. The customer tried to sell his option without success. The customer has tried to damage ERA's name on this site and ERA customers and other have come to its defense. [quote]

All of the above apply. A full refund was promised. Again, without a reply on this public forum, ERA's reputation has been tarnished and I for, would avoid them until this is problem has been resolved. If they continue silence on this problem, they are the ones that will suffer. All the damage that is done is because of ERA's lack of response.

I appreciate all the ERA owners loyalty but, try to see it from a neutral point of view (if all possible).

[pavulon]

Originally Posted by ERA649

I have to say, I read to much of this BS. And I believe this deal is how it was stated in Jose's post.

Anytime you put down a deposit on a custom built anything and you cancel, you loose your deposit, it's time you faced the music and grow up.

That is not the way we had worked it out between us. Had I been told that I was S.O.L., I'd have taken the steel that was cut/bent in my name and would not have been refunded half the deposit.

As for facing music and growing up, I can't imagine you're not referring to making good on agreements between people.

[Excaliber]

From ERA's web site:

What if I want to cancel the kit after I've given you a deposit? The deposit is 100% refundable up until the time we actually start building your kit. After that, we will adjust the refund to reflect our added costs.

A $5,000 deposit is initially required to 'hold your place in line and lock in the cost'. Another $5K is required when the build actually begins. We can assume the build did begin based on:
1. The second $5K was refunded all ready, thus the build was started.
2. Steel was "bent/cut" (according to Pavulon).

We don't know what "added costs" may have been incurred and need to be "adjusted" by ERA before a partial or complete refund of the initial deposit could be made.

Based on Pavulons statement he was promised the full amount would be refunded. Frankly this seems 'unlikely' since the build was started and surely ERA incurred some expense as a result. A 'verbal agreement' is difficult to prove one way or the other, in court or here on CC. But it's much more clear if the deal is in writing! If you have something in writing, Pavulon, perhaps you could post it (assuming it doesn't violate any CC rules).

Otherwise, I'm afraid were back to where we started, 'rumor has it...'.

jwd,
Considering the seriousness of the charges and the fact that it taken SEVERAL pages to get the 'whole story' I think this thread has been fair and unbiased for the most part. Theres always a rouge post here and there in any thread that tends to distract from the matter at hand. But thats just my opinion.

[jwd]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

From ERA's web site:

A $5,000 deposit is initially required to 'hold your place in line and lock in the cost'. Another $5K is required when the build actually begins.

And since there is a long waiting list for these cars, I'm willing to bet that there was no cost to ERA and that the next person in line moved up 1 spot.
Since my Cobra is done and I've been looking to build a GT40, ERA is out of the running and RCR is now in first place. Their loss, not mine. I'm glad somebody had "a pair" and posted this situation. Probably saved me alot of agrivation.

[Chaplin]

Originally Posted by jwd

And since there is a long waiting list for these cars, I'm willing to bet that there was no cost to ERA and that the next person in line moved up 1 spot.
Since my Cobra is done and I've been looking to build a GT40, ERA is out of the running and RCR is now in first place. Their loss, not mine. I'm glad somebody had "a pair" and posted this situation. Probably saved me alot of agrivation.

JWD-
Have you read any of this thread?? The order was for a GT 40, not a Cobra. There is not a long waiting list for GT 40s. In fact, ERA makes so few GT40s, they incur huge expense in connection which each one they make which is likely not recovered until final sale- and there might not be "a next person in line" for quite some time. If fact, Jose stated that Pavulon tried to find someone to take his spot in the GT 40 line, but could find no takers- not surprising for what will be a 100k plus car when it is finshed.

Bottom line, like Jose said, he ordered the car, they started building, he cancelled. Notwithstanding that per ERA's policy, Pavulon may not have been entited to any refund, they apparently agreed to give him back his entire deposit (pretty good of them wouldn't you say?), and in fact have given half of his $$ back already (a fact conveniently omitted by Pavulon until page 5 of this thread). The fact is Pavulon is just pissed that he hasn't gotten back the rest of his deposit back as fast as he would have liked (do I need mention again that he may not have been entitled to a refund in the first place??) so he started this thread with the hope that ERA would be afraid that it would damage their reputation and they would crumble under the pressure. Pretty low brow tactic if you ask me. The repeated threats of contacting the Atty Gen were nice touch too

Unfortunately for Pavulon (and despite his best efforts), this BS thread will not damage a great reputation earned by consistently delivering quality products and service over the last 30 years.

As for you, if you think Pavulon is in the right and took the high road here, I am sure ERA will be happy to hear that you have crossed them off your list.

[Excaliber]

In my shop I charge a 20% 'restocking fee' on what parts I will take back, there is no return on labor, period! I don't accept all returns (notably electrical items) and I mark my reciepts 'All Sales Final'. I won't do business with just anybody who walks through the door either, some people just aren't worth the hassle (in fact a couple of them are posting on THIS thread).

[JWheaton]

JWD - READ the thread. If you don't, you ASSume way to much.

ERA nor any other manufacturer are required to respond to customer complaints on this site. Get over it.

Clearly there is more to the story then originally posted. Which seems to be extremely common when complaints are raised about any of the builders.

There are ERA owners responding to this thread because it was posted on the ERA forum.